What teams do you consider "peers"?

[DelaneyRudd]

The Utah Jazz franchise has some good things going for it. Some almost-all stars, stable ownership without short term anxiety, a captive audience and a CBA that allows small teams to spend.

They also have shortcomings. It's the least African-American place and the limited nightlife is really based around outdoorsy hipsters and gays. The market doesn't bring many eyes. It further from all the players families, in fact Withey (San Diego) and Burkes (Kansas City) were the only players last year to grow up west of the Mississippi.

What teams do you think share the same issues or have equal cachet in the free agent market? I'm thinking Milwaukee and Indiana are fairly similar. I think some Utah benefits outweigh some of their further shortcomings.

Let this be a discussion about the tangible and intangible reasons for committing to 9 months out of your year to making millions in one place verses a different place.


Sent from my butt using Tapatalk

[FJS]

As foreign I truly doesn't understand that utah thing. I mean, i visited ny, boston, philly, Washington, Orlando and miami as nba cities and ny is amazing and miami is pretty cool. Still if i'm a young player what i really want is to have a great team to play and being a star. They are only a few months in slc. A lot of time travelling and then a few months to live where they want. Whats the problem?

[goober]

I think the importance of market size is slowly dying as social media is growing by the second.

[DelaneyRudd]

As foreign I truly doesn't understand that utah thing. I mean, i visited ny, boston, philly, Washington, Orlando and miami as nba cities and ny is amazing and miami is pretty cool. Still if i'm a young player what i really want is to have a great team to play and being a star. They are only a few months in slc. A lot of time travelling and then a few months to live where they want. Whats the problem?

I think the agents play a role in letting them understand that.

[UTJazzFan_Echo1]

I've never understood the dislike for SLC myself.

I lived in Atlanta for some time and have visited several other big cities and I enjoy Salt Lake the most.

It's clean, very safe in comparison to other big cities in the US, there's plenty of stuff to do despite the stigma of being boring, is family friendly, offers great education for kids on all levels and is continuing to grow and diversify like crazy each year.

It's not a fluke that everyone who comes here ends up loving it. Heck, D-Will still has a house here if that tells you anything.

I think it's more appealing to players with families than those who are single but even that's changing IMO.

As far as teams that I see as "peers"... I look at Minnesota, Milwaukee and Portland as being close relatives. Let's be honest, none of those are exactly top destination locations except maybe Portland (my second favorite big city) and each of them are in somewhat similar stages with their teams right now. Lots of young talent and assets, good coaches and a history of struggling to draw in or retain big time free agents. You could probably even throw Denver into that mix. Other than those teams, I think Memphis, Indiana and eventually OKC (after the departure of KD and Westbrook) are probably the next closest "peers" we'd have.

[DelaneyRudd]

SLC is not disliked but there's clearly a huge difference in the availability of things that young rich NBA players like to do in Atlanta vs SLC. There are no high end hip hop dance clubs with VIP bottle service and tons of big booty strippers like there is in Atlanta. Now do we want to attract free agents who find that to be a high priority? No, but when you say "things to do" be aware that hiking, craft beers, and rock concerts are not what most NBA players consider things to do.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Dry Fly]

I think it's the lack of culture or at least the lack of non white bread culture. Plenty of white bread culture that doesn't like rye bread doesn't want any rye bread and actually doesn't think rye bread is a celestial bread. So if you like rye bread and pastrami don't go to a place that serves up peanut butter and jelly with the corners cut off.

[Inigo Montoya]

I think it's the lack of culture or at least the lack of non white bread culture. Plenty of white bread culture that doesn't like rye bread doesn't want any rye bread and actually doesn't think rye bread is a celestial bread. So if you like rye bread and pastrami don't go to a place that serves up peanut butter and jelly with the corners cut off.

Or you'll be toast?

[DiscoLives4ever]

I think at this point players don't have an issue with the city itself, but it comes down to eyeballs and coverage. Utah just doesn't get enough media attention to generate as many fans of the team/players as other locations. That means endorsements from our team/players aren't as valuable as an endorsement from a team in a large market (like LA/NY), a team that gets a lot of coverage for winning or having stars (like OKC/SAS), or a team that has players actively recruiting their friends (Wade bringing LBJ). Unfortunately, the last time the Jazz were good enough to fit the middle category the city WAS a problem to many players, but I really doubt it is now.

[JazzyPhinz]

We just have to get better for more coverage.
During the Stockton/Malone years the Jazz had a ton of national televised games.

OKC will be where we're at if Westbrook/KD leave.

Just the way it is.

[BarneyGumble]

As foreign I truly doesn't understand that utah thing. I mean, i visited ny, boston, philly, Washington, Orlando and miami as nba cities and ny is amazing and miami is pretty cool. Still if i'm a young player what i really want is to have a great team to play and being a star. They are only a few months in slc. A lot of time travelling and then a few months to live where they want. Whats the problem?

I'll take you one further FJS. Utah is an AWESOME state for someone with high energy. There's a reason studs like Malone and Stockton never left. They enjoyed the state, the community, and all the activities it has to offer. Malone even built his dream home here. Deron Williams lamented ever having to leave. Then there's the whole cost of living. An $80 million contract in NYC goes half as far as it does in SLC.

The whole anti-Utah thing is an East Coast media bias that has existed for decades and is largly born of anti-Mormon sentiment. It has died down some over the years, but there will always be ignorant morons that have never set foot in Utah and will bash the state.

[babyjax13]

As foreign I truly doesn't understand that utah thing. I mean, i visited ny, boston, philly, Washington, Orlando and miami as nba cities and ny is amazing and miami is pretty cool. Still if i'm a young player what i really want is to have a great team to play and being a star. They are only a few months in slc. A lot of time travelling and then a few months to live where they want. Whats the problem?

I'll take you one further FJS. Utah is an AWESOME state for someone with high energy. There's a reason studs like Malone and Stockton never left. They enjoyed the state, the community, and all the activities it has to offer. Malone even built his dream home here. Deron Williams lamented ever having to leave. Then there's the whole cost of living. An $80 million contract in NYC goes half as far as it does in SLC.

The whole anti-Utah thing is an East Coast media bias that has existed for decades and is largly born of anti-Mormon sentiment. It has died down some over the years, but there will always be ignorant morons that have never set foot in Utah and will bash the state.

There's a lot of stuff Salt Lake doesn't have, and a lot of discrimination that has been put into the community through church doctrine and their unfettered access to Utah politicians. I love this state, but as someone who is gay it is a really hard place to live, and I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of minority populations felt the same way.

[BarneyGumble]

There's a lot of stuff Salt Lake doesn't have, and a lot of discrimination that has been put into the community through church doctrine and their unfettered access to Utah politicians. I love this state, but as someone who is gay it is a really hard place to live, and I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of minority populations felt the same way.

I wont pretend to understand what its like to be you with your own unique challenges but I will say that the church simply stands by its traditional view of marriage and people can choose to believe or behave however they want. I know several married gay couples, yes, that attend church more faithfully than I do lol. Also, who gives a crap what politicians think anyway? They all suck.

[babyjax13]

There's a lot of stuff Salt Lake doesn't have, and a lot of discrimination that has been put into the community through church doctrine and their unfettered access to Utah politicians. I love this state, but as someone who is gay it is a really hard place to live, and I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of minority populations felt the same way.

I wont pretend to understand what its like to be you with your own unique challenges but I will say that the church simply stands by its traditional view of marriage and people can choose to believe or behave however they want. I know several married gay couples, yes, that attend church more faithfully than I do lol. Also, who gives a crap what politicians think anyway? They all suck.

There is a huge difference between asserting that individually one believes in traditional marriage and mandating that everyone must live by your values. That's the problem I and many others see that arises from the church's unprecedented access to politicians.

Some examples:
1] I was in high school here not that long ago. Health curriculum did not teach safe sex, and did not even mention what homosexuality was, so for a segment of students was 100% non-applicable. Many parents aren't going to want to bring their kids to a place with schools that leave their children unprepared for adult life.
2] failure to pass hate crime legislation (it was going to pass till law makers met with church officials)
3] spending taxpayer money (including MY money) to defend discriminatory laws preventing marriage equality
4] draconian liquor laws
etc. etc.

I have zero problem with people who decide to join the church, I have tremendous problems with a state that is essentially a theocracy. The state using my taxpayer dollars in an active attempt to harm myself and others is really messed up, and with the frequency that stuff like that happens here it is really hard to take the "lol politics" perspective... It's reassuring to know that at any moment I might lose a basic human right.

There are a lot of possible inconveniences that come with living in Utah for people that are not LDS, and not only is that easily verifiable, it is also a notorious reputation that the state has. Free agents certainly take this into account when they decide whether or not to sign here. (and again, not trying to generalize to individual members of the church, just the results of its political activities).

[DelaneyRudd]

From a NBA players point of view the issue isn't social groups. They have a social group. Everyone kisses their butts. NY and LA are the hubs for the sports industry so they are the only cities that matter. Even Chicago is just another city. If SLC is hard for anyone it's probably the wives from the South or East.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BarneyGumble]

There is a huge difference between asserting that individually one believes in traditional marriage and mandating that everyone must live by your values. That's the problem I and many others see that arises from the church's unprecedented access to politicians.

Some examples:
1] I was in high school here not that long ago. Health curriculum did not teach safe sex, and did not even mention what homosexuality was, so for a segment of students was 100% non-applicable. Many parents aren't going to want to bring their kids to a place with schools that leave their children unprepared for adult life.
2] failure to pass hate crime legislation (it was going to pass till law makers met with church officials)
3] spending taxpayer money (including MY money) to defend discriminatory laws preventing marriage equality
4] draconian liquor laws
etc. etc.

I have zero problem with people who decide to join the church, I have tremendous problems with a state that is essentially a theocracy. The state using my taxpayer dollars in an active attempt to harm myself and others is really messed up, and with the frequency that stuff like that happens here it is really hard to take the "lol politics" perspective... It's reassuring to know that at any moment I might lose a basic human right.

There are a lot of possible inconveniences that come with living in Utah for people that are not LDS, and not only is that easily verifiable, it is also a notorious reputation that the state has. Free agents certainly take this into account when they decide whether or not to sign here. (and again, not trying to generalize to individual members of the church, just the results of its political activities).

I hear you and empathize with you; not because I am gay but because I know how frustrating it can be to have ridiculous laws made by politicians that represent themselves and corporations more than people. I haven't lived in Utah for quite some time so I cant comment; but what I can say is that the politicians there are probably many of them LDS or close to the LDS church. I dont think this is the church buying off politicians and influencing policy and elections, rather I just think the demographic of your constituents has a belief system that is different from your own.

Its a tough card to draw. Your options are 1) leave and go to a state with friendlier laws, 2) become active in your causes and vote for candidates that use those causes as a platform, or 3) accept the world is not perfect and just focus on your own happiness.

Sorry to go doctor Phil on you....my intent is more to say I dont think the CHURCH per se is the reason for the things you experience, rather its a cultural thing in the state of Utah that yes, is influenced by the church a great degree.

[Dry Fly]

Sorry to go doctor Phil on you....my intent is more to say I dont think the CHURCH per se is the reason for the things you experience, rather its a cultural thing in the state of Utah that yes, is influenced by the church a great degree.

Trying to separate the culture of Utah from the church is like separating velcro. The church is not this pure and innocent and benign pious entity. It gets it's hands dirty. It always has and always will. The culture and politics of Utah is not just influenced by the church but rather the church is the conveyor of a engineered and mass produced product. The church is Vito Corleone.

[BarneyGumble]

Trying to separate the culture of Utah from the church is like separating velcro. The church is not this pure and innocent and benign pious entity. It gets it's hands dirty. It always has and always will. The culture and politics of Utah is not just influenced by the church but rather the church is the conveyor of a engineered and mass produced product. The church is Vito Corleone.

I dont quite see it that way but you are entitled to your own opinion.

[AingesBurner]

The state of Utah is ran by Mormons and their views and values. no other way around it, the only way our state, every other state, and our country can be ran happily is if it is ran by Libertarians but I think Mormons would still get confused on what it means to be a Libertarian.

[Dry Fly]

Trying to separate the culture of Utah from the church is like separating velcro. The church is not this pure and innocent and benign pious entity. It gets it's hands dirty. It always has and always will. The culture and politics of Utah is not just influenced by the church but rather the church is the conveyor of a engineered and mass produced product. The church is Vito Corleone.

I dont quite see it that way but you are entitled to your own opinion.

It's hard for people to see things they don't want to see. I wish I didn't see it this way either but my home state and the place that raised me has some dysfunctional politics that we all see and can't deny. Think about the term Jack Mormon and then think about how such a person is kept in line and then maybe you will see what I'm getting at here. The subversion culturally as well as politically is singularly unique to Utah. Nowhere else is there such a dominating entity that has such a stranglehold other than maybe the middle east. It's a shame because the people in Utah have some really good unselfish virtues that you don't see elsewhere. I think it would be really cool if my state would chill out and quit driving good people towards this exclusiveness of "gentiles". We live in America, not Zion.

Anyways, you seem like a good guy so I'll quit soap boxing it here.