The Official 2023-2024 Utah Jazz Season Discussion Thread

[AGE1207]

A current OPPG of 118 seems to suggest that our defense is a much more urgent problem than our offense.
We are ranked 24th or something with this, whilst our offense is still ranked 12th,(which is ok-ish even though that’s also down 3 points from last season’s average)

Ok, it’s only 6 games but it does seem a concern, doesn’t it?

[Crunch 99]

I tend to agree with Inigo's comment in another thread where he said Clarkson's best role may be sixth man, but I also think sixth man may be Sexton's best role.

[TNJazz]

Have the Jazz, ever had a 1st overall pick they have kept? Have they ever made a #1 pick even if they had the opportunity?

[Inigo Montoya]

Walker Kessler Out At Least Two Weeks With UCL Sprain In Left Elbow
https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/273622/Walker-Kessler-Out-At-Least-Two-Weeks-With-UCL-Sprain-In-Left-Elbow

[Hoops Addict]

Jazz losing big time.....the do not have to tank,,,they are bad.

I am not sad about it. I am looking forward to a top 5 pick!!!!!

[D Rog]

Jazz losing big time.....the do not have to tank,,,they are bad.

I am not sad about it. I am looking forward to a top 5 pick!!!!!

No disrespect but the Jazz can't get the #9 pick from last year on the floor and that was considered a much better draft. Just because you get a top 5 pick doesn't mean you are going to like what you get. Dante Exum #5, Enes Kanter #3

[HadAnEffectHere]

Based on how he's looked in the G-League, Taylor Hendricks just has no offensive talent at all. He has nothing except spotup shooting and it will be tough for him to develop anything else because he's so awkward.

Probably means he's going to be traded in a couple years once he can repair his trade value as he's a horrible fit with Kessler (both very untalented offensive players who are best at shot blocking) unless the Jazz are more interested in trading Kessler.

Kessler's ceiling is Jakob Poeltl while Hendricks' ceiling is Nerlens Noel with spotup shooting and that would be an awful C/PF combo.

[Inigo Montoya]

Based on how he's looked in the G-League, Taylor Hendricks just has no offensive talent at all. He has nothing except spotup shooting and it will be tough for him to develop anything else because he's so awkward.

Probably means he's going to be traded in a couple years once he can repair his trade value as he's a horrible fit with Kessler (both very untalented offensive players who are best at shot blocking) unless the Jazz are more interested in trading Kessler.

Kessler's ceiling is Jakob Poeltl while Hendricks' ceiling is Nerlens Noel with spotup shooting and that would be an awful C/PF combo.

I think the main selling point of Hendricks is that he's an athletic and long switchable defender who can shoot from range. He's basically a 3 and D player. He can have a lot of value for sure, but there is no star power there imho. We'll see how he develops but I agree his fit wit Kessler isn't ideal unless we have a killer back court.

[TNJazz]

Based on how he's looked in the G-League, Taylor Hendricks just has no offensive talent at all. He has nothing except spotup shooting and it will be tough for him to develop anything else because he's so awkward.

Probably means he's going to be traded in a couple years once he can repair his trade value as he's a horrible fit with Kessler (both very untalented offensive players who are best at shot blocking) unless the Jazz are more interested in trading Kessler.

Kessler's ceiling is Jakob Poeltl while Hendricks' ceiling is Nerlens Noel with spotup shooting and that would be an awful C/PF combo.

I think the main selling point of Hendricks is that he's an athletic and long switchable defender who can shoot from range. He's basically a 3 and D player. He can have a lot of value for sure, but there is no star power there imho. We'll see how he develops but I agree his fit wit Kessler isn't ideal unless we have a killer back court.

Sooooo, up to this point, the discussions have been about how poorly the back court fits and that there currently isn't a player who can lead the team properly. Now the discussion is shifting to focus on how the front court players don't fit well, (Kessler/Hendricks & Kessler/Collins). When will the small forward players be called into question about their lack of defense, poor 3 pt shooting, lack of height, etc. While many of you said after the blow up that the next few years would be painful, I thought, "but as long as they make strides then it will be palatable." Then last year gave some hope with entertaining and energetic play and when they finally did decide to shut it down, it seemed as if they were significantly ahead of where they thought they would be and the tweaks made during the off season were upgrades for sure. Now the chatter is all about how dreadful the players fit together, to which I agree. It has been painful to what these games this season, even the wins haven't been as entertaining as last season. Last year, this team would have figured out a way to win the 2 Suns games, so many unbelievably timed miscues and then the last 2 blowouts. I am regretting paying for this seasons League Pass. All five positions on the floor have deeply etched flaws, coming out of this seems not possible. Looks as if for the foreseeable future that we are on the trajectory of becoming the Pistons or Commanders of the last 2 decades.

[HadAnEffectHere]

Based on how he's looked in the G-League, Taylor Hendricks just has no offensive talent at all. He has nothing except spotup shooting and it will be tough for him to develop anything else because he's so awkward.

Probably means he's going to be traded in a couple years once he can repair his trade value as he's a horrible fit with Kessler (both very untalented offensive players who are best at shot blocking) unless the Jazz are more interested in trading Kessler.

Kessler's ceiling is Jakob Poeltl while Hendricks' ceiling is Nerlens Noel with spotup shooting and that would be an awful C/PF combo.

I think the main selling point of Hendricks is that he's an athletic and long switchable defender who can shoot from range. He's basically a 3 and D player. He can have a lot of value for sure, but there is no star power there imho. We'll see how he develops but I agree his fit wit Kessler isn't ideal unless we have a killer back court.

Sooooo, up to this point, the discussions have been about how poorly the back court fits and that there currently isn't a player who can lead the team properly. Now the discussion is shifting to focus on how the front court players don't fit well, (Kessler/Hendricks & Kessler/Collins). When will the small forward players be called into question about their lack of defense, poor 3 pt shooting, lack of height, etc. While many of you said after the blow up that the next few years would be painful, I thought, "but as long as they make strides then it will be palatable." Then last year gave some hope with entertaining and energetic play and when they finally did decide to shut it down, it seemed as if they were significantly ahead of where they thought they would be and the tweaks made during the off season were upgrades for sure. Now the chatter is all about how dreadful the players fit together, to which I agree. It has been painful to what these games this season, even the wins haven't been as entertaining as last season. Last year, this team would have figured out a way to win the 2 Suns games, so many unbelievably timed miscues and then the last 2 blowouts. I am regretting paying for this seasons League Pass. All five positions on the floor have deeply etched flaws, coming out of this seems not possible. Looks as if for the foreseeable future that we are on the trajectory of becoming the Pistons or Commanders of the last 2 decades.

I mean, yes, if we trade Markkanen, we have basically no long-term pieces other than Walker Kessler (who should be the 4th to 5th best player on a good team) and everyone else on the team is just part of a collection of trade assets to be traded for picks to be traded for other picks to eventually become a building block player.

We're likely tanking until we get a major star and this will take 3-4 years of 20-30 win basketball and I would expect Markkanen, Hendricks, etc to be traded for more picks at some point in that tank.

[Inigo Montoya]

Sooooo, up to this point, the discussions have been about how poorly the back court fits and that there currently isn't a player who can lead the team properly. Now the discussion is shifting to focus on how the front court players don't fit well, (Kessler/Hendricks & Kessler/Collins).

I don't think the discussion is shifting because we still need a good back court which we don't have. In addition, we also need a good solution to the SF position (Markkanen is a PF in my book). The reason for the supposed 'shift' is that while it was clear since the Jazz traded Conley in the trade deadline of last season (and even before that because we all knew he's old and not a long term solution and that Clarkson isn't either as a starter), the Jazz chose to draft Hendricks who is kind of a 3/4 tweener who doesn't really create his own shot, and also traded for Collins who I'd consider a 3/4 tweener as well (I don't really see him as a C but whatever). Those are new additions that add the issues that the Jazz had previously with their back court.

[bkohler]

I think the Jazz are playing a lot more of the long game than many of us realize.

Hendricks struggles with the ball but has shown he’s a great defender and shooter, but obviously needs development. But we should all remember how much development Rudy Gobert needed at first during his g league run as well. Hendricks is a 3-5 year play and while his floor is low right now he’s got the highest potential of all the current Jazz players.

I also don’t understand the narrative that Kessler and Hendricks and a bad combo - I actually think they’re ideal with one preferring to play on the perimeter and the other down low. Both offering tremendous rim protection. All while having enough shooting to keep the floor spaced. I think the Collins/Kessler pairing is actually worse even with how well Collins is shooting.

Also, I’m not certain where the realistic projection of being bad for a few years leads to the general pessimism that we’re going to turn into a laughing stock franchise.

We lack a true franchise building block (besides potentially Lauri) but that happens to every team at some point.

[Inigo Montoya]

To me, right now Hendricks is like a bigger version of Ochai Agbaji.

[HadAnEffectHere]

I think the Jazz are playing a lot more of the long game than many of us realize.

Hendricks struggles with the ball but has shown he’s a great defender and shooter, but obviously needs development. But we should all remember how much development Rudy Gobert needed at first during his g league run as well. Hendricks is a 3-5 year play and while his floor is low right now he’s got the highest potential of all the current Jazz players.

I also don’t understand the narrative that Kessler and Hendricks and a bad combo - I actually think they’re ideal with one preferring to play on the perimeter and the other down low. Both offering tremendous rim protection. All while having enough shooting to keep the floor spaced. I think the Collins/Kessler pairing is actually worse even with how well Collins is shooting.

Also, I’m not certain where the realistic projection of being bad for a few years leads to the general pessimism that we’re going to turn into a laughing stock franchise.

We lack a true franchise building block (besides potentially Lauri) but that happens to every team at some point.

Hendricks and Kessler just bring nothing to the table on offense and their strengths overlap. They're not negatives on offense but they're just... There.

It's a pretty heinous combination that requires your perimeter players to all be great on offense as you can't have three guys who do nothing but score on spoon fed possessions, but Hendricks will probably be traded in 2-3 years for more picks. Doubt he's seriously considered an important piece of the team's future instead of just a guy to trade later.

It's just kind of a depressing situation as the Jazz spent their first top 10 pick since Dante Exum (ehhhh) on a guy who was immediately out of the rotation (due to positional overload) on a horrible team and is such a bad fit with one of the only long-term guys that he's a near lock to be moved later for more picks.

I also don't think he has that much potential to the point where the Jazz value him a lot. He has elite defensive talent, but he has no offensive talent at all other than spotup shooting.

Like, if before draft I told people that we would trade the 9th pick for middle of the first round picks in 2026 and 2028, people would be furious, but this looks like close to the plan for Hendricks, lol.

[SoCalJazzFan]

In college, Hendricks was a very good rim protector and could also switch and guard in space. On top of that, he was a 3pt shooting threat and would occasionally drive to the rim after receiving a pass at the 3pt line when the opportunity presented itself. I didn't see much self-creation in his highlight vids, so that probably isn't part of his game, in case anyone was expecting that.

However, a player with his size who has these attributes, if he can translate them to the NBA, is very valuable (e.g. Jerami Grant, Jaden McDaniels, etc). He and Kessler would not occupy the same space on offense, but Hendricks could be a good help rim/paint defender and stretch the D to let playmakers do their thing.

He is not shining yet very early in this season, and might not ever, but I'm willing to give him some time to see if he can make the transition due to his potential.

[HadAnEffectHere]

In college, Hendricks was a very good rim protector and could also switch and guard in space. On top of that, he was a 3pt shooting threat and would occasionally drive to the rim after receiving a pass at the 3pt line when the opportunity presented itself. I didn't see much self-creation in his highlight vids, so that probably isn't part of his game, in case anyone was expecting that.

However, a player with his size who has these attributes, if he can translate them to the NBA, is very valuable (e.g. Jerami Grant, Jaden McDaniels, etc). He and Kessler would not occupy the same space on offense, but Hendricks could be a good help rim/paint defender and stretch the D to let playmakers do their thing.

He is not shining yet very early in this season, and might not ever, but I'm willing to give him some time to see if he can make the transition due to his potential.

The point is just that Kessler and Hendricks are sub-linearly additive on defense because each additional shot blocker isn't that helpful. There's diminishing returns for shotblocking and they're both best at shotblocking.

Meanwhile, Kessler/Hendricks is a frontcourt with no creation ability and basically eliminates the possibility of having a limited perimeter player on offense. Making most 3D guys non-viable at SG/SF. Agbaji is non-playable in these hypothetical lineups and so would a lot of other guys. It makes roster construction a billion times harder.

Hendricks' best fit is next to an elite scoring center who struggles to block shots which is where he can provide a lot of value. He fits really well with guys like Sabonis and teams with great scoring centers would value Hendricks much more than other teams. There are none of those players in the next three drafts so the Jazz will probably trade Hendricks by year 3 or so.

[bkohler]

The point is just that Kessler and Hendricks are sub-linearly additive on defense because each additional shot blocker isn't that helpful. There's diminishing returns for shotblocking and they're both best at shotblocking.

If I may respectfully disagree with this point. Weakside shot-blocking is a tremendously valuable skill that seems like it's actually heightened by its proximity to a second elite shot-blocker and has been talked about a lot recently as being the next iteration of NBA defense:

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Having a defender who can help protect the paint when the primary rim defender is dragged out into the perimeter with the pick-and-roll can be the foundation of truly great modern defense.

One of Hendricks's best comps right now (IMO) is Jerami Grant; check out how effective he is in this exact situation:
https://youtu.be/XbuiA8xGuLU?si=VfiK78oZkHFWq-mE

Or check out how the Bucks use Giannis with Brook Lopez. Notice how often Lope is dragged away from the hoop, but Giannis still provides rim protection:

https://youtu.be/tfLukY1Q-08?si=YiCPNYn3qWbu1WrA

To your point on offense, the Kessler/Hendricks pairing has much more complementary skill sets than, for instance, the Favors/Gobert pairing, which produced decent results despite a severe lack of spacing. With Kessler and Hendricks, the spacing isn't an issue. Another great reference point would be last year's Grizzlies team with JJJ and Steven Adams. Both are very similar to Hendricks and Kessler, respectively, with Kessler even showcasing a fledgling 3-point game. Other examples include Mobley and Allen in CLE, Siakam and Gasol in TOR a few years ago - check out more here (https://www.theringer.com/2022/4/19/23030857/nba-twin-towers-memphis-grizzlies-milwaukee-bucks)


Overall, I think the argument that Hendricks and Kessler can't play together is very premature. Both are young and nowhere near their final forms as players. Tony Jones recently mentioned the Jazz see Hendricks as a three long-term, which also changes all of this. I also think any talk of moving any of the young players, including Hendricks, for picks, feels backward from how Danny Ainge has traditionally worked. He moves vets for picks and young players for stars - I think there's a better chance of him cashing in on Lauri than moving Hendricks.

[HadAnEffectHere]

Hendricks is not a long-term 3 at all, lmao.

He has no skills at all on offense other than stand still shooting and his entire thing is shot blocking while being mobile.

He has roughly a 10% success rate on drives to the basket attacking closeouts in the G-League. He's Nerlens Noel with spot-up shooting (which is a very helpful player if healthy, but is not a SF!). Jerami Grant has some level of offensive skill, Hendricks does not. Hendricks is just extremely awkward and ineffective with the ball even against very bad competition. He only shoots open threes.

But making Hendricks a 3 would just make roster construction even harder due to his total lack of offensive talent. You're now basically asking for superstar level play from your guards to save your offense and Agbaji has the same problem of having no offensive talent.

If you want to get into extremely unlikely development paths, Hendricks putting on enough weight to conceivably play center is both much more likely than him gaining Jerami Grant level skill and would be way more intriguing.

[PaKii94]

I think they see Hendricks a 3 as they see Lauri as a 3. He has the quickness to be able to guard the perimeter. The offense is lacking but he can be a weak side protector as said above.

Lauri is also best in the same role with a rim protector behind him.

[Inigo Montoya]

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