WOJ: Collins to Utah

[atlantabbq99]

Collins is a great leaper, great dunker, average to good rebounder, and good 3pt shooter for a PF.

With that said, he disappears in big games, he doesn't know what to do if he is not the #1 option, and is not clutch and no dawg in him.

He is basically the opposite of Jimmy Butler and more like a Julius Randle clone. It really looks like Collins stopped caring about basketballafter getting his big contract two years ago.

[vtime]

Collins is a great leaper, great dunker, average to good rebounder, and good 3pt shooter for a PF.

With that said, he disappears in big games, he doesn't know what to do if he is not the #1 option, and is not clutch and no dawg in him.

He is basically the opposite of Jimmy Butler and more like a Julius Randle clone. It really looks like Collins stopped caring about basketballafter getting his big contract two years ago.

He’s just been hurt the last 2 years.

[Denizfeital]

Honestly, a great move.

I think the best part is that we sent Rudy Gay out, he (nothing against him personally) was pretty much useless for us the time he was around. Not sure if he was a leader in the locker room, but on the court, I won't miss him.

It will probably delay a bit the development for Hendricks, but maybe that is all The Jazz wanted in the first place, not through him right away in tough situations during games.

Regards,

Deniz

[TNJazz]

Not sure what you all thought Gay would bring in a return. It wasn't that long ago that comments were strongly in favor of moving him regardless of price bc he wasn't producing, seemed like a bad fit, too old, etc. Now we get a proven player for him, a significant upgrade for basically a 2nd road pick, which we don't need anyway. There may be a long term deal involving Collins, but at this point, this is a significant upgrade over a player who was probably going to take minutes away from the rookies anyway. At some point recently, Collins was playing at a level worthy of a big contract. So with the way Hardy has developed young players, I feel confident Collins will have a resurgence and be more like the player who earned his contract playing for a coach and team that helps him regain that form. At least there is that possibility which wasn't there with Gay, so in just in that regard, this is a win of a trade.

[atlantabbq99]

Collins is a great leaper, great dunker, average to good rebounder, and good 3pt shooter for a PF.

With that said, he disappears in big games, he doesn't know what to do if he is not the #1 option, and is not clutch and no dawg in him.

He is basically the opposite of Jimmy Butler and more like a Julius Randle clone. It really looks like Collins stopped caring about basketballafter getting his big contract two years ago.

He’s just been hurt the last 2 years.

Alot of ATL homers have been saying that, but he wasn't hurt during the Bucks' series in 2021, and when Trae went down, Collins didn't go dawg like Jimmy Butler can do, especially with Giannis being injured and out for most of the series.

[Crunch 99]

I like gambling on Collins without giving up talented players to get him (sorry Rudy, you've reached your expiration date). I suspect 25 year old Collins probably still has the talent and capacity to be a pretty good player, but the question is whether the Jazz can put him in a position to succeed and whether they can motivate Collins to give his all on both ends of the floor. If the Jazz coaching staff pulls off meeting those objectives, it would be a hat trick on rejuvenating players' careers: First Markannen, then Dunn and now possibly Collins.

A few people on the General Board have mentioned Collins' serious finger injury as negatively impacting his shooting. That take seems correct to me. Post All Star break, after his finger had healed some, Collins was shooting the ball at good percentages again: 51.3/38/78 for 12.8 ppg on 62 TS%.

[HadAnEffectHere]

Not sure what you all thought Gay would bring in a return. It wasn't that long ago that comments were strongly in favor of moving him regardless of price bc he wasn't producing, seemed like a bad fit, too old, etc. Now we get a proven player for him, a significant upgrade for basically a 2nd road pick, which we don't need anyway. There may be a long term deal involving Collins, but at this point, this is a significant upgrade over a player who was probably going to take minutes away from the rookies anyway. At some point recently, Collins was playing at a level worthy of a big contract. So with the way Hardy has developed young players, I feel confident Collins will have a resurgence and be more like the player who earned his contract playing for a coach and team that helps him regain that form. At least there is that possibility which wasn't there with Gay, so in just in that regard, this is a win of a trade.

I mean, the trade is basically a two part transaction

Dump Gay for a 2nd round pick
Sign John Collins for 3/78

The question is whether or not it's a good idea to give John Collins 3/78, the Rudy Gay part is completely irrelevant.

[D Rog]

Per reports, the Hawks and Jazz have talked about Collins for a year. I am curious what the Jazz have offered in the past and how those past offers compare to Rudy Gay and a 2nd round pick.

[Netaman]

It makes sense as a buy low move, and loading up on players that can be used later in a trade package for a star.

Other than that, I agree that it doesn't make much sense given the draft we just had. I'm assuming other trades will happen, otherwise Hendricks will be behind Collins and Olynyk.

what do you think a reasonable price is for Olynyk? He'd be a perfect fit with the nets. since only 3m of his salary is guaranteed i think it could be a 1 for 1 for Cam Thomas (or 2 for 1 with Thomas/Dayron Sharpe). We also have a few TPEs big enough to take that back for some future seconds if you are just looking to move off the contract. a future first seems steep.

[Inigo Montoya]

It makes sense as a buy low move, and loading up on players that can be used later in a trade package for a star.

Other than that, I agree that it doesn't make much sense given the draft we just had. I'm assuming other trades will happen, otherwise Hendricks will be behind Collins and Olynyk.

what do you think a reasonable price is for Olynyk? He'd be a perfect fit with the nets. since only 3m of his salary is guaranteed i think it could be a 1 for 1 for Cam Thomas (or 2 for 1 with Thomas/Dayron Sharpe). We also have a few TPEs big enough to take that back for some future seconds if you are just looking to move off the contract. a future first seems steep.

I don't think the Jazz will trade Olynyk for cap space and TPEs because they don't need those. I also think Ainge really likes him and he could really help any team that's trying to compete. Not sure what the Nets have to offer if not picks. Claxton is way too valuable, and you're probably not giving up Cam Thomas either, and I'm unsure what other players would be of interest and could be traded for Olynyk realistically. I think picks make the most sense.

[Netaman]

It makes sense as a buy low move, and loading up on players that can be used later in a trade package for a star.

Other than that, I agree that it doesn't make much sense given the draft we just had. I'm assuming other trades will happen, otherwise Hendricks will be behind Collins and Olynyk.

what do you think a reasonable price is for Olynyk? He'd be a perfect fit with the nets. since only 3m of his salary is guaranteed i think it could be a 1 for 1 for Cam Thomas (or 2 for 1 with Thomas/Dayron Sharpe). We also have a few TPEs big enough to take that back for some future seconds if you are just looking to move off the contract. a future first seems steep.

I don't think the Jazz will trade Olynyk for cap space and TPEs because they don't need those. I also think Ainge really likes him and he could really help any team that's trying to compete. Not sure what the Nets have to offer if not picks. Claxton is way too valuable, and you're probably not giving up Cam Thomas either, and I'm unsure what other players would be of interest and could be traded for Olynyk realistically. I think picks make the most sense.

depending on what else the nets do, i think they might do thomas.

i think right now they are in a holding pattern hoping lillard shakes free and probably reserving their futures until they know the outcome there. but once that gets settled whichever way i think they'd move cam thomas for olynyk. thomas needs to go to a team that will give him a bigger role and i just dont think that's the nets.

[Inigo Montoya]

I just want to make it clear that I'm not crazy about this trade, it's just that I'm happy it didn't cost us anything. I still don't like Collins' fit (as discussed last time he was on the block), his contract, and now that we drafted Hendricks it makes even less sense. I'm just saying that I think I understand why the Jazz did it--buy low, rehab value, and use in a trade later.

I'd say the real cost is cap space. Other and possibly better players may become available and the Jazz won't be as flexible and able to absorb them for small returns like they did with Collins.

I also don't get the "we finally got off Gay's contract" posts. He was now going into the final year of his deal and it's influence on the cap is negligible. We turned a $6.4M expiring deal to a $25M per year deal for the next 3 seasons, so if anyone was concerned about getting off a contract for cap purposes, taking on $25M per season for the next 3 years is worse than having an an expiring $6.4M deal on the books. Obviously, we got a decent (but overpaid) player for basically no cost, but I think the fit isn't ideal, and better opportunities may arise later. The Jazz took the 'a bird in the hand' approach and I respect it.

[Jadoogar]

I like the value for Utah but i'm not sure i love the trade. Collins is an ok to good player but i think this likely limits the play time for Hendricks. Lauri will start at the 3 but he's obviously more of a 4 so most of the 4 minutes will be taken by Collins/Markkanen.

I'm not saying Hendricks is a start but this probably will slow down his development.

[Jazz Dog]

I really think this is another good pick up by the Jazz.

My take is there is 144 minutes available for three positions.

My break down would look something like this.

Markanaan- 30-32 minutes
Kessler- 28-30 minutes
Oilynks (sp?)- 24-26 minutes
Collins- 24-28 minutes
Hendricks- 24-28 minutes
Everyone else- 10-14 minutes

Plenty of time for Hendricks to grow throughout the year.

If Collins gets rejuvenated he is in the 28 minutes level, if not Hendricks moves into the 28 minute level.

I think the one that gets reduce time might by Senesbaugh.

[Snakebites]

I really think this is another good pick up by the Jazz.

My take is there is 144 minutes available for three positions.

My break down would look something like this.

Markanaan- 30-32 minutes
Kessler- 28-30 minutes
Oilynks (sp?)- 24-26 minutes
Collins- 24-28 minutes
Hendricks- 24-28 minutes
Everyone else- 10-14 minutes

Pleanty of time for Hendricks to grow throughout the year.

If Collins gets rejuvenated he is in the 28 minutes level, if not Hendricks moves into the 28 minute level.

I think the one that gets reduce time might by Senesbaugh.

If you’re okay with running 3 guys who defensively are clearly f/c type guys for at least 70 percent of the time, it’s fine.

I think most coaches wouldn’t be. None of those guys can reliably defend small forwards IMO.

[Inigo Montoya]

I really think this is another good pick up by the Jazz.

My take is there is 144 minutes available for three positions.

My break down would look something like this.

Markanaan- 30-32 minutes
Kessler- 28-30 minutes
Oilynks (sp?)- 24-26 minutes
Collins- 24-28 minutes
Hendricks- 24-28 minutes
Everyone else- 10-14 minutes

Pleanty of time for Hendricks to grow throughout the year.

If Collins gets rejuvenated he is in the 28 minutes level, if not Hendricks moves into the 28 minute level.

I think the one that gets reduce time might by Senesbaugh.

If you’re okay with running 3 guys who defensively are clearly f/c type guys for at least 70 percent of the time, it’s fine.

I think most coaches wouldn’t be. None of those guys can reliably defend small forwards IMO.

I agree. We still have zero natural small forwards on our roster.

[Snakebites]

I really think this is another good pick up by the Jazz.

My take is there is 144 minutes available for three positions.

My break down would look something like this.

Markanaan- 30-32 minutes
Kessler- 28-30 minutes
Oilynks (sp?)- 24-26 minutes
Collins- 24-28 minutes
Hendricks- 24-28 minutes
Everyone else- 10-14 minutes

Pleanty of time for Hendricks to grow throughout the year.

If Collins gets rejuvenated he is in the 28 minutes level, if not Hendricks moves into the 28 minute level.

I think the one that gets reduce time might by Senesbaugh.

If you’re okay with running 3 guys who defensively are clearly f/c type guys for at least 70 percent of the time, it’s fine.

I think most coaches wouldn’t be. None of those guys can reliably defend small forwards IMO.

I agree. We still have zero natural small forwards on our roster.

Yeah. If it's merely a question of offensive fit, I think Lauri assuages a lot of the concerns. Defensively is another matter entirely.

[vtime]

Lauri was an All Star at SF, no reason to change that at all. Rebounding was a bigger issue than defense last yr and now you’ve added a good rebounder in Collins and Hendricks. Now the backcourt needs tweaking. Not sure the plan, but a ton of options. A healthy Sexton is a 20ppg player on around 40% from 3. Clarkson proved he can put up an efficient 20ppg if you keep him. THT showed he can make plays down the home stretch of the season. Agbaji was okay. They can make trades, absorb contracts or stand pat. Collins puts the team back in the playoffs that was really in last yr if they wanted to be.

[MalonesElbows]

Collins is a great leaper, great dunker, average to good rebounder, and good 3pt shooter for a PF.

With that said, he disappears in big games, he doesn't know what to do if he is not the #1 option, and is not clutch and no dawg in him.

He is basically the opposite of Jimmy Butler and more like a Julius Randle clone. It really looks like Collins stopped caring about basketballafter getting his big contract two years ago.

It's possible, if you don't love the game the NBA will eat you up. No free agents are signing in Utah though and never have, so they hate his salary less than the big cities.

[SoCalJazzFan]

Collins is a great leaper, great dunker, average to good rebounder, and good 3pt shooter for a PF.

With that said, he disappears in big games, he doesn't know what to do if he is not the #1 option, and is not clutch and no dawg in him.

He is basically the opposite of Jimmy Butler and more like a Julius Randle clone. It really looks like Collins stopped caring about basketballafter getting his big contract two years ago.

He has declined in production since he got the big contract. Could be injury related, but some players do seem to disappear after getting their big second contract. As a Hawks fan, how much do you think it might have to do with him being on the trade block and marginalized and feeling not wanted by ATL from even before his contract was negotiated?