Game 19: Utah Jazz (6-12) @ Minnesota Timberwolves (13-4)

Post #1 » by **Inigo Montoya** » Thu Nov 30, 2023 3:36 pm

Jazz are on a second game of a back-to-back, Markkanen is still out, Dunn is listed as GTD. For the Wolves, Edwards is listed as GTD.

This could get ugly.

Post #2 » by **FJS** » Thu Nov 30, 2023 7:42 pm

I don't expect anything good.
The question is how many quarters we will be competitive? 1? 2? .... I don't expect more.

red4hf · Post #3 » by **red4hf** » Fri Dec 1, 2023 1:42 am

We have a Samanic sighting, and the Jazz are actually playing defense!!!!!! I love it.....

red4hf · Post #4 » by **red4hf** » Fri Dec 1, 2023 2:58 am

Well, it was fun while it lasted.....

atlantabbq99 · Post #5 » by **atlantabbq99** » Fri Dec 1, 2023 3:34 am

I think you guys are starting to see why John Collins is so frustrating to watch

Crunch 99 · Post #6 » by **Crunch 99** » Fri Dec 1, 2023 2:23 pm

atlantabbq99 wrote:I think you guys are starting to see why John Collins is so frustrating to watch

Collins is not at the top of my frustration list. He is not the first frontcourt player to have his worst shooting game of the season playing against the giant front line of Gobert and Towns. Chet Holmgren had his worst game the game before.

Gobert is marching towards another DPOY, and according to numerous Wolves' posters, Towns is playing better defense than he used to play. On offense, Towns is still one of the best --- averaging an efficient 22 ppg on 50/41/91 splits.

Crunch 99 · Post #7 » by **Crunch 99** » Fri Dec 1, 2023 3:31 pm

Naw probably came in to this game with extra incentive to punish his old team. Schneider and Hardy didn't give him much of a chance. We barely saw him play at all under Schneider, and under Hardy, there were a few times where he had an OK stretch of games followed by another stretch of DNPs. He's managed to become a regular rotation player for the Wolves.

Post #8 » by **Inigo Montoya** » Fri Dec 1, 2023 11:15 pm

atlantabbq99 wrote:I think you guys are starting to see why John Collins is so frustrating to watch

Collins was frustrating to watch in this game but it probably was his first truly bad performance of the season (and he still managed to grab 12 boards in 28 minutes). I don't know how the Hawks managed to marginalize him so much. The guy is really talented and in a team that fits him (the Jazz aren't an ideal fit) he should be averaging 20-10 pretty easily.

atlantabbq99 · Post #9 » by **atlantabbq99** » Sat Dec 2, 2023 4:22 am

Inigo Montoya wrote:
atlantabbq99 wrote:I think you guys are starting to see why John Collins is so frustrating to watch

Collins was frustrating to watch in this game but it probably was his first truly bad performance of the season (and he still managed to grab 12 boards in 28 minutes). I don't know how the Hawks managed to marginalize him so much. The guy is really talented and in a team that fits him (the Jazz aren't an ideal fit) he should be averaging 20-10 pretty easily.

I agree, JC is super talented, 6'9, 40 vert, and can shoot 40% from three, but he just can't jump from good player to All Star.

Hawks fans were waiting for him to be the next Kemp or Amare, when that didn't happen, i was atleast hoping for Boozer, but the guy just stop caring about basketball after he got his new contract.

It has been frustrating to not see JC step up when he is the best player on the court. There where multiple times Trae was injuried, and Hawks fans were thinking, this would be a good time for JC to get 30pt, but then he just puts up 12pt. Now the same thing is happening with Markk and Jordan hurt the last few games, JC has only averaged 12.

Post #10 » by **Inigo Montoya** » Sat Dec 2, 2023 11:46 am

atlantabbq99 wrote:
Inigo Montoya wrote:
atlantabbq99 wrote:I think you guys are starting to see why John Collins is so frustrating to watch

Collins was frustrating to watch in this game but it probably was his first truly bad performance of the season (and he still managed to grab 12 boards in 28 minutes). I don't know how the Hawks managed to marginalize him so much. The guy is really talented and in a team that fits him (the Jazz aren't an ideal fit) he should be averaging 20-10 pretty easily.

I agree, JC is super talented, 6'9, 40 vert, and can shoot 40% from three, but he just can't jump from good player to All Star.

Hawks fans were waiting for him to be the next Kemp or Amare, when that didn't happen, i was atleast hoping for Boozer, but the guy just stop caring about basketball after he got his new contract.

It has been frustrating to not see JC step up when he is the best player on the court. There where multiple times Trae was injuried, and Hawks fans were thinking, this would be a good time for JC to get 30pt, but then he just puts up 12pt. Now the same thing is happening with Markk and Jordan hurt the last few games, JC has only averaged 12.

The thing is that I think he needs to play with a good point guard, which the Jazz don't have. Our guards kinda suck and we are forced to start a rookie PG who never player the PG position, so obviously it'll be much more difficult for a guy like Collins, and that's without even discussing the fit next to Markkanen and Kessler. I wouldn't expect Collins to drop 30 when he doesn't have good passing guards and/or a capable PG to play with, so expecting him to drop 30 when Trea Young is out with injury is not very realistic imho. If anything, I'd expect him to do worse when Young is out. What is puzzling to me is how he became marginalized even when Young was playing because it looks on paper that he should have been thriving next to a good passer like Trae.

atlantabbq99 · Post #11 » by **atlantabbq99** » Sun Dec 3, 2023 3:31 am

Inigo Montoya wrote:
atlantabbq99 wrote:
Inigo Montoya wrote:Collins was frustrating to watch in this game but it probably was his first truly bad performance of the season (and he still managed to grab 12 boards in 28 minutes). I don't know how the Hawks managed to marginalize him so much. The guy is really talented and in a team that fits him (the Jazz aren't an ideal fit) he should be averaging 20-10 pretty easily.

I agree, JC is super talented, 6'9, 40 vert, and can shoot 40% from three, but he just can't jump from good player to All Star.

Hawks fans were waiting for him to be the next Kemp or Amare, when that didn't happen, i was atleast hoping for Boozer, but the guy just stop caring about basketball after he got his new contract.

It has been frustrating to not see JC step up when he is the best player on the court. There where multiple times Trae was injuried, and Hawks fans were thinking, this would be a good time for JC to get 30pt, but then he just puts up 12pt. Now the same thing is happening with Markk and Jordan hurt the last few games, JC has only averaged 12.

The thing is that I think he needs to play with a good point guard, which the Jazz don't have. Our guards kinda suck and we are forced to start a rookie PG who never player the PG position, so obviously it'll be much more difficult for a guy like Collins, and that's without even discussing the fit next to Markkanen and Kessler. I wouldn't expect Collins to drop 30 when he doesn't have good passing guards and/or a capable PG to play with, so expecting him to drop 30 when Trea Young is out with injury is not very realistic imho. If anything, I'd expect him to do worse when Young is out. What is puzzling to me is how he became marginalized even when Young was playing because it looks on paper that he should have been thriving next to a good passer like Trae.

His stats went down as soon as he signed his $125 million contract, its that simple...

Post #12 » by **Inigo Montoya** » Sun Dec 3, 2023 1:14 pm

atlantabbq99 wrote:His stats went down as soon as he signed his $125 million contract, its that simple...

Fair enough but he didn't park himself in the corner to only shoot 3s of his own volition, I'm assuming?

Crunch 99 · Post #13 » by **Crunch 99** » Mon Dec 4, 2023 1:48 pm

atlantabbq99 wrote:His stats went down as soon as he signed his $125 million contract, its that simple...

You are probably correct, but I am hoping the change of teams might spur a new trajectory for the better. Early on, he has been a serviceable starting PF with overall performance fairly similar to his last season in Atlanta, but it is still way too early to judge his Jazz career. His three point percentage and offensive rebounding are up, so there's that.

atlantabbq99 · Post #14 » by **atlantabbq99** » Thu Dec 7, 2023 9:49 am

Crunch 99 wrote:
atlantabbq99 wrote:His stats went down as soon as he signed his $125 million contract, its that simple...

You are probably correct, but I am hoping the change of teams might spur a new trajectory for the better. Early on, he has been a serviceable starting PF with overall performance fairly similar to his last season in Atlanta, but it is still way too early to judge his Jazz career. His three point percentage and offensive rebounding are up, so there's that.

If this is Collins' peak, which is the 5th option on a bad team, then he will basically be a journeyman for the rest of his NBA career, like Jeff Green or Joe Smith. The hopes of Collins making at least one all star team are fading fast.