Ainge should uhh, actually trade some of these trade assets

[HadAnEffectHere]

Instead of designing a team, Ainge created a roster that was just a collection of trade assets with no synergy.

In theory, this makes sense as the Jazz weren't trying to win, but Ainge managed to depress the value of all of our trade assets due to the lack of the synergy. The Jazz have three gunner guards (Clarkson, Sexton, and THT) and a gunner guard they're trying to convert to PG (Keyonte). Beyond these small guards, they have a bunch of players who don't create offense that well and need to be fed (Markkanen, Collins, Kessler, and Agbaji) and are so loaded with forwards (Markkanen, Collins, Olynyk) that they had to send their #9 pick (Hendricks) to the G-League even though the plan is to clearly trade Hendricks as well as he's such a bad fit with Kessler due to also needing to be spoonfed like Kessler.

This has really badly harmed the trade value of Hendricks in particular, but probably has not helped Collins or Olynyk's trade value and makes Sexton's low BBIQ stand out far more since he has to try to play like a PG at times. Also, the team, uhhhh, sucks really bad because it's not a team and is just a collection of trade assets.

But the Jazz need to actually trade some of these players so that they can have a coherent roster where players get enough minutes and touches to show off and then later get traded.

Just not a very well thought out plan, but Ainge should actually trade some of these guys so that future guys can be more easily traded.

[jazzkid]

I agree the log jams at guard and front court are problematic. I think the plan had to be altered for a couple of reasons. First, I think both Clarkson and THT were expected to have moved on with better offers this summer and it didn't happen. Second, the CBA minimum salary required the Jazz picked up more salary hence the Collins trade and other signings to get over the minimum.

I think we will see some trades but I agree the value of our players is not as high as it may have been.

Sent from my SM-N975U using RealGM mobile app

[bkohler]

even though the plan is to clearly trade Hendricks as well as he's such a bad fit with Kessler due to also needing to be spoonfed like Kessler.

You keep saying this like it’s the gospel truth.

[babyjax13]

This would assume they were assets. I don't the value of any of these guys has been affected by the way we have played.

[red4hf]

This would assume they were assets. I don't the value of any of these guys has been affected by the way we have played.

THT wasn't worth anything more than a 2nd, if that..... I think the Jazz genuinely like Clarkson and don' really want to deal him, but would if great offer came along......

[babyjax13]

This would assume they were assets. I don't the value of any of these guys has been affected by the way we have played.

THT wasn't worth anything more than a 2nd, if that..... I think the Jazz genuinely like Clarkson and don' really want to deal him, but would if great offer came along......

I would assume our vet values go something like this:
Clarkson: 3-4 seconds, maybe heavily protected 1st depending on the contract coming back
Collins: 3-4 seconds, maybe a heavily protected 1st depending on the contract coming back
Olynyk: 2-3 seconds
Sexton: 1 second
THT: no value

Hendricks is a project and they said that at the draft. I wasn't a huge fan but was fine with him at 9 because he has some nice measurables (I would have taken Whitmore or Keyonte). Lauri 100% has value, as do Kessler, Ochai, and George, but I don't see them going anywhere.

[HadAnEffectHere]

This would assume they were assets. I don't the value of any of these guys has been affected by the way we have played.

My option of Ainge is massively worse if he assembled this team for any reason other than as a collection of trade assets.

The roster overlap and lack of playmaking is just awful. What would be the point of acquiring John Collins over CP3 if the plan wasn't to trade most of the guys on the roster?

[HadAnEffectHere]

This would assume they were assets. I don't the value of any of these guys has been affected by the way we have played.

THT wasn't worth anything more than a 2nd, if that..... I think the Jazz genuinely like Clarkson and don' really want to deal him, but would if great offer came along......

I would assume our vet values go something like this:
Clarkson: 3-4 seconds, maybe heavily protected 1st depending on the contract coming back
Collins: 3-4 seconds, maybe a heavily protected 1st depending on the contract coming back
Olynyk: 2-3 seconds
Sexton: 1 second
THT: no value

Hendricks is a project and they said that at the draft. I wasn't a huge fan but was fine with him at 9 because he has some nice measurables (I would have taken Whitmore or Keyonte). Lauri 100% has value, as do Kessler, Ochai, and George, but I don't see them going anywhere.

Agbaji has no upside whatsoever and is a really weird fit on the roster. He's really old for a 2nd year player and has shown nothing interesting in the NBA. His selling point is that he's a playable 8th man who is really cheap, but this has no value to the Jazz.

It's also extremely likely the Jazz take a rando 3D player whose selling point will be "Agbaji but good" and overload the roster even further, diminishing Agbaji's trade value even more. Outside of Collier and Topic and Dillingham, no one in the upcoming draft can create offense.

Then again, Agbaji probably has 0 trade value right now and could not be moved for anything.

[SoCalJazzFan]

So, why are we expecting this team to be good this year? We are barely a year removed from dealing our cornerstone players!

The emergence of Markk has probably changed the burn it completely down tanking/rebuilding approach, IMO. The new CBA team salary requirements certainly had an impact on team construction as well.

However, let's not forget that Ainge has a boat load of future 1st rd picks and a variety of contracts to trade- wait for it- not necessarily additional picks, but actual NBA players from teams that are looking to either dump valuable vet players and rebuild or teams looking to trade for players to set up for a playoff run. The options are currently unknown, but come February there are always surprising names being thrown around from teams in one camp or the other. Ainge has done a masterful job setting the Jazz up to accommodate either with his picks and varied players/contracts.

Your team needs a scoring punch from the bench for the playoffs? We have JC and Sexton.
Your team needs a perimeter defender, or a replacement to your starting or backup PG (seems to happen every year)? We have Dunn (or even THT or Sexton).
Your team is looking to rebuild? We have expiring contracts in KO, THT, and Simone, and picks to acquire your player(s) we're interested in.
You have too many young players that aren't getting on the floor? We can trade you a pick out in the future for promising players.
A trade needs a 3rd team to pull it off? We can probably accommodate you.

My guess is that only Markk, Kessler, and the 3 recent picks (perhaps only KG and TH) are not on the table for discussions this year. This team could look quite a bit different in a few months to a year from now.

[red4hf]

THT wasn't worth anything more than a 2nd, if that..... I think the Jazz genuinely like Clarkson and don' really want to deal him, but would if great offer came along......

I would assume our vet values go something like this:
Clarkson: 3-4 seconds, maybe heavily protected 1st depending on the contract coming back
Collins: 3-4 seconds, maybe a heavily protected 1st depending on the contract coming back
Olynyk: 2-3 seconds
Sexton: 1 second
THT: no value

Hendricks is a project and they said that at the draft. I wasn't a huge fan but was fine with him at 9 because he has some nice measurables (I would have taken Whitmore or Keyonte). Lauri 100% has value, as do Kessler, Ochai, and George, but I don't see them going anywhere.

Agbaji has no upside whatsoever and is a really weird fit on the roster. He's really old for a 2nd year player and has shown nothing interesting in the NBA. His selling point is that he's a playable 8th man who is really cheap, but this has no value to the Jazz.

It's also extremely likely the Jazz take a rando 3D player whose selling point will be "Agbaji but good" and overload the roster even further, diminishing Agbaji's trade value even more. Outside of Collier and Topic and Dillingham, no one in the upcoming draft can create offense.

Then again, Agbaji probably has 0 trade value right now and could not be moved for anything.

That's ridiculous, he's 23 and shooting 39% from 3, he has some value.......

[babyjax13]

THT wasn't worth anything more than a 2nd, if that..... I think the Jazz genuinely like Clarkson and don' really want to deal him, but would if great offer came along......

I would assume our vet values go something like this:
Clarkson: 3-4 seconds, maybe heavily protected 1st depending on the contract coming back
Collins: 3-4 seconds, maybe a heavily protected 1st depending on the contract coming back
Olynyk: 2-3 seconds
Sexton: 1 second
THT: no value

Hendricks is a project and they said that at the draft. I wasn't a huge fan but was fine with him at 9 because he has some nice measurables (I would have taken Whitmore or Keyonte). Lauri 100% has value, as do Kessler, Ochai, and George, but I don't see them going anywhere.

Agbaji has no upside whatsoever and is a really weird fit on the roster. He's really old for a 2nd year player and has shown nothing interesting in the NBA. His selling point is that he's a playable 8th man who is really cheap, but this has no value to the Jazz.

It's also extremely likely the Jazz take a rando 3D player whose selling point will be "Agbaji but good" and overload the roster even further, diminishing Agbaji's trade value even more. Outside of Collier and Topic and Dillingham, no one in the upcoming draft can create offense.

Then again, Agbaji probably has 0 trade value right now and could not be moved for anything.

Super strange comment. He is a 3 and D wing. Every team needs them, including us.

[HadAnEffectHere]

I would assume our vet values go something like this:
Clarkson: 3-4 seconds, maybe heavily protected 1st depending on the contract coming back
Collins: 3-4 seconds, maybe a heavily protected 1st depending on the contract coming back
Olynyk: 2-3 seconds
Sexton: 1 second
THT: no value

Hendricks is a project and they said that at the draft. I wasn't a huge fan but was fine with him at 9 because he has some nice measurables (I would have taken Whitmore or Keyonte). Lauri 100% has value, as do Kessler, Ochai, and George, but I don't see them going anywhere.

Agbaji has no upside whatsoever and is a really weird fit on the roster. He's really old for a 2nd year player and has shown nothing interesting in the NBA. His selling point is that he's a playable 8th man who is really cheap, but this has no value to the Jazz.

It's also extremely likely the Jazz take a rando 3D player whose selling point will be "Agbaji but good" and overload the roster even further, diminishing Agbaji's trade value even more. Outside of Collier and Topic and Dillingham, no one in the upcoming draft can create offense.

Then again, Agbaji probably has 0 trade value right now and could not be moved for anything.

Super strange comment. He is a 3 and D wing. Every team needs them, including us.

He's not good enough at defense or high volume enough at threes to be an actual 3D wing. He's much more "rando passable bench player"

(And yes, our top 5 pick in 2024 has a very good chance of ending up being in the "rando passable bench player" mold as well, sure)

[babyjax13]

Agbaji has no upside whatsoever and is a really weird fit on the roster. He's really old for a 2nd year player and has shown nothing interesting in the NBA. His selling point is that he's a playable 8th man who is really cheap, but this has no value to the Jazz.

It's also extremely likely the Jazz take a rando 3D player whose selling point will be "Agbaji but good" and overload the roster even further, diminishing Agbaji's trade value even more. Outside of Collier and Topic and Dillingham, no one in the upcoming draft can create offense.

Then again, Agbaji probably has 0 trade value right now and could not be moved for anything.

Super strange comment. He is a 3 and D wing. Every team needs them, including us.

He's not good enough at defense or high volume enough at threes to be an actual 3D wing. He's much more "rando passable bench player"

(And yes, our top 5 pick in 2024 has a very good chance of ending up being in the "rando passable bench player" mold as well, sure)

He takes 3 attempts from 3 in 19 minutes per game. That is sufficient volume. As a starter for his career he takes over 7 attempts per game. I don't think he is a surefire starter, but I think you can start him and you have a nice "5th best starter" because he does what a lot of teams need from that position. Think you are being overly harsh with him.

[HadAnEffectHere]

Super strange comment. He is a 3 and D wing. Every team needs them, including us.

He's not good enough at defense or high volume enough at threes to be an actual 3D wing. He's much more "rando passable bench player"

(And yes, our top 5 pick in 2024 has a very good chance of ending up being in the "rando passable bench player" mold as well, sure)

He takes 3 attempts from 3 in 19 minutes per game. That is sufficient volume. As a starter for his career he takes over 7 attempts per game. I don't think he is a surefire starter, but I think you can start him and you have a nice "5th best starter" because he does what a lot of teams need from that position. Think you are being overly harsh with him.

Even if he could hypothetically be that, he's a pretty horrible fit with the roster as we have no players who can playmake at an NBA starter level and we'll probably add another guy in the draft who can't dribble either AND Hendricks can't dribble either if he makes it up to the roster later.

[babyjax13]

He's not good enough at defense or high volume enough at threes to be an actual 3D wing. He's much more "rando passable bench player"

(And yes, our top 5 pick in 2024 has a very good chance of ending up being in the "rando passable bench player" mold as well, sure)

He takes 3 attempts from 3 in 19 minutes per game. That is sufficient volume. As a starter for his career he takes over 7 attempts per game. I don't think he is a surefire starter, but I think you can start him and you have a nice "5th best starter" because he does what a lot of teams need from that position. Think you are being overly harsh with him.

Even if he could hypothetically be that, he's a pretty horrible fit with the roster as we have no players who can playmake at an NBA starter level and we'll probably add another guy in the draft who can't dribble either AND Hendricks can't dribble either if he makes it up to the roster later.

Sure, but the roster fits together really poorly. That's not Ochai's fault. The difficulty lies in determining who the keepers are. I think he's likely to be one of them. They regular rotation guys who 100 percent aren't? Sexton, Collins, THT, Clarkson, Olynyk, Fontecchio. Swap them out for more playmaking at a few positions and I think everything starts to make more sense.

[Lava Rock Kid]

Danny didn’t do it with Boston. He didn’t trade his assets. He won’t do it here

[Jammer]

You're roster is still being balanced out from the effect of blowing it up over the Summer of 2022.

So, there is a roster imbalance due to circumstances of brilliant moves, that just ended up stacking up some positions, that will balance out over the next 2 years.

Center (2)
Walker Kessler - 2nd Year of Rookie Contract but has regressed, somewhat, from Outstanding rookie year
Omer Yurtseven - 1rst year of 2 Year deal, a STEAL at his price point

Power Forward (a true logjam with 5)
John Collins - acquired basically by moving on from Mike Conley's salary at cost of two 2nd Round Picks to Minnesota. Yes, Utah does miss Conley's stabilizing presence but needed to see what you had in younger players. A necessary trade, despite short term regression. Collins is 26, Conley is 36. Collins often seems better suited for small ball center, but the Jazz may be able to build his value into a tradeable asset, possibly for a Bigger fish in the water.

Kelly Olynyk - expiring contract who will be moved for an asset before February 7th trade deadline
Simone Fontecchio - expiring contract that will not be with team next season
Taylor Hendricks - #9 pick who will move up in rotation once Olynyk is moved before trade deadline
Luka Samanic - Reserve who's stuck behind logjam of Power Forwards

Small Forward (2, only 1 of whom plays but has missed 5 games)
Lauri Markkanen - Near All-Star Player signed on cheap contract thru 2025 season. Has missed 5 games already.
Brice Sensabaugh - buried in rotation because of excess veteran Power Forwards and Guards. Will probably play more NEXT SEASON

Shooting Guard (4)
Jordan Clarkson - having an "Off Year" but his salary drops from $24.5M to 14M for 2025 and 2026 seasons, which he is WORTH
Collin Sexton - undersized spark plug off bench who eventually, even if not until draft, will be swapped for assets. Extremely efficient scorer.
Talen Horton-Tucker - leftover from dumping Patrick Beverly, who wanted a buyout. Won't be back next year, but doesn't provide enough value to justify $11M salary. Toronto could use him, but they are right up against Luxury Tax line. I've felt Utah lost about 3 games that Jazz could have won if Horton-Tucker had not been in rotation, but he has to be in rotation if you want to be able to trade him before the February 7 Trade Deadline.
Ochai Agbaji - Energetic, athletic, good guy type 2022 #14 Pick . Good defender who has improved his shooting. Team hopes he develops further.

Point Guards (2 Ball Handlers)
Keyonte George - rookie that has shown promise but makes a lot of turnovers for a Lead Ball Handler and has not shot anything close to like he did in Summer League. Biggest disappointment so far is his shooting. Hopefully he gets used to all 30 NBA arenas in less than the typical 3 year time frame.
Kris Dunn - 29 Year old point guard who has regressed to his MEAN after outlier Hot period with Jazz last season. Probably around 60th best PG in NBA which means he's really more of a Reserve than a Backup. Doesn't get on court because of better combo Guards on Jazz.

[dautjazz]

He made like 4 trades last season, and the Collins trade this year. Also a great job drafting this summer. He'll definitely be active at the trade deadline. I can see him moving THT, no need for him at this point with George, Ochai, Clarkson, and Sexton.

[AGE1207]

I feel pretty confident about our development. The whole organisation seems to be improving gradually. Our roster is obviously a work in progress.
Saying goodbye to Conley was painful and is the one thing I regret but in the longer term, who knows ? Maybe this also becomes a good move?

I am optimistic about the Jazz and I think we will be really good in 2024.

[TyCobb]

If Giddey survives all this stuff surrounding him, then he seems like the perfect fit for the Jazz.