The Keyonte George has to be benched thread.

Post #1 » by **FJS** » Fri Dec 29, 2023 4:12 pm

I am sorry, because I know the kid is promising but...

He is one of the worst defenders in the whole league and he is not showing decent % for a PG (he is shooting worse than Ricky Rubio). He is dishing some assist, this is true, but not much better than other Sg/PG as THT or Clarkson. He is not controlling the tempo of the game and he is TO prone.

You can think JC too... but at least you know Clarkson can change any given game. Keyonte has a good game in a loss vs OKC... but not much more.

The difference when Dunn is running the offense is notable, and Dunn is not John Stockton. And in defense the difference is more than notable.

I get that if he is the future should play... but Hendricks is too... and he has not done worse than George. Still we don't know how Brice plays. It's not Ochai or THT are much older and they should play too.

So if we are trying to do our best, Keyonte should play as much as Hendricks. And if we are trying to develop, they have to play similar amount of time.

Our Rotation should be

Kessler - Olynyk
Collins-Fontecchio
Markkanen- Agbaji
Sexton - Clarkson
Dunn - Horton-Tucker

We´ll see, but yesterday we could have won and we can't mix clarkson, Olynyk and George as we did yesterday. Some minutes with Sexton... and get rid of this zone defense.

red4hf · Post #2 » by **red4hf** » Fri Dec 29, 2023 4:30 pm

If we want to win, George shouldn't be getting a lot of minutes, yet......

Collins also shouldn't be playing a lot of minutes with Kessler, they just don't look good together....... I'd like to see a frontcourt of Walker-Laurie_Hendricks....... Just to see if that's reasonable in the future......

vryadli · Post #3 » by **vryadli** » Fri Dec 29, 2023 5:48 pm

Actually I don't understand why urgent development of George can improve Jazz future as a contender. Is h going to be as goood as DWill? I'd said not a chance. Can he reach at least Donovan level? If so, not having PT for free. What lessons he is getting now? His person is moreimportant than team wins, defense is completely unimportant, a coulee flashy plays can redeem any amount of turnovers...

That more or less what Donovan was taught - and what future Jazz got from that? Or, yes, some very exciting trades, but contender-wise...

Post #4 » by **FJS** » Fri Dec 29, 2023 6:18 pm

I thought he would learn something those games he did not play... but he does the same things.
He is the 14th in FG% in this team, altough he is the 6th with more shots. Chuckers like JC or THT still are in the low 40... but George is 35%. This is not acceptable.
Dunn, who is know as a bad shooter is 46 and 36... Sexton is 46 & 35 (and improving).

I don't get why George is getting so many PT.

Post #5 » by **Inigo Montoya** » Fri Dec 29, 2023 6:57 pm

Making him a starter so early in the season was probably too much for him. Maybe Hardy saw it as a nothing to lose situation because our other guards sucked too so he may as well give him some minutes and see what he could do. But since the guard play has somewhat stabilized and our guards suck less, and Sexton is playing well as a starter, it is easier for Hardy to bring George off the bench, which he as done. Therefore, I'd argue that since he isn't starting anymore, George has been benched and it's probably a good thing as it takes some of the pressure off.

Post #6 » by **FJS** » Fri Dec 29, 2023 7:16 pm

Sure, he is benched... but I mean he has to be in the bench more time. In fact he shouldn't be playing time at all.
He is not doing better than Hendricks who only get time when there's a lot of injuries.
Right now Sexton, Clarkson, Dunn, Agbaji and Tht should be higher in SG/PG rotation.

Post #7 » by **Inigo Montoya** » Fri Dec 29, 2023 7:31 pm

FJS wrote:Sure, he is benched... but I mean he has to be in the bench more time. In fact he shouldn't be playing time at all.
He is not doing better than Hendricks who only get time when there's a lot of injuries.
Right now Sexton, Clarkson, Dunn, Agbaji and Tht should be higher in SG/PG rotation.

But we can't complain that Hardy isn't developing the young players and at the same time say they shouldn't be playing, especially if we assume the Jazz won't even make the play-in.

Post #8 » by **FJS** » Fri Dec 29, 2023 8:29 pm

Inigo Montoya wrote:
FJS wrote:Sure, he is benched... but I mean he has to be in the bench more time. In fact he shouldn't be playing time at all.
He is not doing better than Hendricks who only get time when there's a lot of injuries.
Right now Sexton, Clarkson, Dunn, Agbaji and Tht should be higher in SG/PG rotation.

But we can't complain that Hardy isn't developing the young players and at the same time say they shouldn't be playing, especially if we assume the Jazz won't even make the play-in.

Hardy has to give time to the ones who deserve it. Last year Agbaji and Kessler earned their minutes. I don't see Keyonte earning his minutes. And if Hardy wants yo develop players.. why is he not playing Hendricks???
I know is easier to bench Dunn or THT than Collins or Olynyk, but you can erase Fontecchio minutes (altough simone has earned his minutes as Dunn has done)

Post #9 » by **FJS** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 9:50 am

Being the team 13-19 in the +/- on court, almost everyone who gets significant minutes is negative.

Still, the best +/- in this team is Dunn with +0.8.
Then THT with -0,3 and Lauri -0,8 are the best (with significant minutes).

In the dead end Keyonte George and John Collins with -7.0 & -7.1.
Collins at least is shooting 47.5 FG with 40 from 3pt and tries in defense. Still he is not matching with some lineups.

But you can figure who is working and not working.

Crunch 99 · Post #10 » by **Crunch 99** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 12:08 pm

Keyonte might blossom in to a really good offensive player, but it appears he was thrust in to a big minute role too early. I think he should go hone his game in the G-league, learn to dominate there, and then come back.

Keep starting Dunn and Sexton, and play THT - Clarkson off the bench.

AGE1207 · Post #11 » by **AGE1207** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 3:47 pm

To me this season is one long training camp for next season. I want the rookies to learn as much as they can anyway they can.
Personally I don’t believe much in development though the G-league nor do I believe in learning from sitting on a bench a lot.
I do believe in playing next to seasoned veterans, picking up their habits (preferably the good ones)and learning by making mistakes and correcting them. This is why I wouldn’t trade KO for instance as he seems a great mentor and that kind of value shouldn’t be underestimated.

George has started the season on the bench, then became a starter, got injured and now is coming of the bench again playing about 20 minutes per game. Seems just about perfect for his development…
Is he entitled to these minutes? Absolutely coz this is the easiest way to find out for the front office whether he will be a real asset in the future.

Post #12 » by **Inigo Montoya** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 4:41 pm

Hardy doesn't strike me as someone who just gives away minutes even if players don't deserve them, especially the young ones. We can see that with how he benched Kessler, for example. I agree that George hasn't looked great for the most part but I'm guessing that Hardy sees enough of him in practice and things he does in games to believe he's earned some minutes. He's playing 25 minutes so we can't complain he's not getting development time. Hendricks is in a more tricky situation because of the addition of Collins, but maybe things will happen before the trade deadline to make some space for him. If not, there's always next year, especially if Olynyk is either traded or expires and doesn't return, and if Fontecchio won't be retained.

SoCalJazzFan · Post #13 » by **SoCalJazzFan** » Sun Dec 31, 2023 1:10 am

Almost predictable that KG would have a great game following a thread like this. I’ve lost count of how many justifiable messages I’ve written where the player goes off the next game, lol.

Post #14 » by **FJS** » Sun Dec 31, 2023 8:55 am

The only difference to be honest is his shot fell. Still he did same mistakes. Lazy passes, not good defense. But if he is able to shoot well, and this is a difference.
It help Olynyk was the one with the ball in his hands creating instead of him.
Still, I'm glad he scored like that and I hope he is able to repeat it in a consistent basis.

AGE1207 · Post #15 » by **AGE1207** » Sun Dec 31, 2023 10:36 am

FJS wrote:The only difference to be honest is his shot fell. Still he did same mistakes. Lazy passes, not good defense. But if he is able to shoot well, and this is a difference.
It help Olynyk was the one with the ball in his hands creating instead of him.
Still, I'm glad he scored like that and I hope he is able to repeat it in a consistent basis.

Unfortunately this is now the one thing a rookie can’t give you (yet) : consistency.

And u are right obviously: nothing much changed except his shot fell. But then again, most rookies wouldn’t even be shooting anymore in the 4th quarter with the game on the line. So, that’s progress…

KG has great potential but he will have “stinkers”. We need to accept the learning curve I believe.

I am taking the opportunity to wish you all a Happy New Year!!!

Post #16 » by **Inigo Montoya** » Sun Dec 31, 2023 11:44 am

FJS wrote:The only difference to be honest is his shot fell. Still he did same mistakes. Lazy passes, not good defense. But if he is able to shoot well, and this is a difference.
It help Olynyk was the one with the ball in his hands creating instead of him.
Still, I'm glad he scored like that and I hope he is able to repeat it in a consistent basis.

I have to say I agree. I didn't like most of the shots he took, especially in the first half. Luckily his shots fell this time and it really helped the Jazz win the game but yes, he made bad passes that I didn't like. But I'll take the W and keep reminding myself that I can't expect most rookie PG to be good right off the bat. Hardy is sacrificing minutes for KG's development and hopefully it will pay off in the future.