OKC Thunder 2023-24 Regular Season Discussion

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Re: OKC Thunder 2023-24 Regular Season Discussion 

Post#3241 » by Dadouv47 » Mon May 20, 2024 5:14 pm

Kizz Fastfists wrote:
Big nick wrote:For all of us screaming for a big at the trade dead line it was reported sam tried to get a big just couldn't make a trade for one. We don't know what goes on behind the scenes. Hope to get one this summer.


Considering that it was OKC's 2024 FRP that was sent to Dallas then flipped to Washington an hour later for Gafford we all know that report is propaganda. There was no big traded at the deadline that Presti couldn't have easily beaten the offer on. He didn't try to get a big at the deadline. He had one of his propagandists put the story out there because he knows most fans can not figure out the obvious lie. If it were true, give the assets Presti had at his disposal and the trades that went down, then Presti is even more incompetent than I have ever given him credit for.


Presti messed up but it's not necessarily a lie from Woj. Presti maybe tried for some mid/long term big mens that are either on long term contract or pending RFA. He clearly didn't want Olynyk because there's no reason Utah wouldn't trade with us and certainly didn't want some of the bigs that were traded or bad players like Drummond.
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Re: OKC Thunder 2023-24 Regular Season Discussion 

Post#3242 » by cjmcallist » Mon May 20, 2024 5:15 pm

Kizz Fastfists wrote:
Big nick wrote:For all of us screaming for a big at the trade dead line it was reported sam tried to get a big just couldn't make a trade for one. We don't know what goes on behind the scenes. Hope to get one this summer.


Considering that it was OKC's 2024 FRP that was sent to Dallas then flipped to Washington an hour later for Gafford we all know that report is propaganda. There was no big traded at the deadline that Presti couldn't have easily beaten the offer on. He didn't try to get a big at the deadline. He had one of his propagandists put the story out there because he knows most fans can not figure out the obvious lie. If it were true, give the assets Presti had at his disposal and the trades that went down, then Presti is even more incompetent than I have ever given him credit for.

"Tried to get a big" is relative. I 'tried to get a new job' because I sent out one job application.

The bigs that moved at the deadline were all too expensive for the value that they bring. Doesn't mean Presti didn't "try".

I still think our problem was execution. When we played our game, Dallas couldn't stop us, bigs or not.
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Re: OKC Thunder 2023-24 Regular Season Discussion 

Post#3243 » by Dadouv47 » Mon May 20, 2024 5:19 pm

cjmcallist wrote:
Kizz Fastfists wrote:
Big nick wrote:For all of us screaming for a big at the trade dead line it was reported sam tried to get a big just couldn't make a trade for one. We don't know what goes on behind the scenes. Hope to get one this summer.


Considering that it was OKC's 2024 FRP that was sent to Dallas then flipped to Washington an hour later for Gafford we all know that report is propaganda. There was no big traded at the deadline that Presti couldn't have easily beaten the offer on. He didn't try to get a big at the deadline. He had one of his propagandists put the story out there because he knows most fans can not figure out the obvious lie. If it were true, give the assets Presti had at his disposal and the trades that went down, then Presti is even more incompetent than I have ever given him credit for.

"Tried to get a big" is relative. I 'tried to get a new job' because I sent out one job application.

The bigs that moved at the deadline were all too expensive for the value that they bring. Doesn't mean Presti didn't "try".

I still think our problem was execution. When we played our game, Dallas couldn't stop us, bigs or not.


I agree with this and I think that's the most positive thing (with Shai's performance) from those playoffs: our playing style works in the postseason. Doesn't mean we shouldn't add a better back up big or switch Giddey with a better PF but we don't have to change the way we play and those who think Chet should play at the 4 are crazy.
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Re: OKC Thunder 2023-24 Regular Season Discussion 

Post#3244 » by cjmcallist » Mon May 20, 2024 5:26 pm

Dadouv47 wrote:
cjmcallist wrote:
I still think our problem was execution. When we played our game, Dallas couldn't stop us, bigs or not.


I agree with this and I think that's the most positive thing (with Shai's performance) from those playoffs: our playing style works in the postseason. Doesn't mean we shouldn't add a better back up big or switch Giddey with a better PF but we don't have to change the way we play and those who think Chet should play at the 4 are crazy.

Not looking forward to all the T&T posts using our assets to acquire another big, simply because they're larger than 6'10".

Also, does anyone know why we stopped double teaming Kyrie and Luka in the second half? That was strange to me.
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Re: OKC Thunder 2023-24 Regular Season Discussion 

Post#3245 » by Dadouv47 » Mon May 20, 2024 9:20 pm

I wouldn't mind CP3 back. Yeah, he's old and not the kind of player we badly need but him leading our second unit could be nice. He wants his ring, knows how to adapt and to motivate young players.
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Re: OKC Thunder 2023-24 Regular Season Discussion 

Post#3246 » by Clav » Mon May 20, 2024 10:15 pm

Taking a stab at our FA in relation to cap holds and extensions
(8 under guaranteed contract + Joe, Wiggins, Williams, and Waters III with TOs or NGs)


TL;DR - Retain all four of those players and offer Muscala a veteran's minimum bringing our active roster to 13-of-15 + the #12 selection in the 2024 Draft. One open roster spot for a FA signing or a 2-for-1 trade.


So, what would you do in regard to Joe, Wiggins, and Giddey ?


Players in question:
Hayward - UFA $47.3M CapHold
- Allow to expire, renounce rights

Biyombo - UFA $2.1M CapHold
- Allow to expire, renounce rights

Muscala - UFA $2.1M CapHold
- Allow to expire, offer veteran's minimum contract (1/$2.1M)

Lindy Waters III - TO @ 1/$2.1M
- Pick up Team Option (1/$2.1M)

Jaylin Williams - non-guarantee, or Ext. Eligible
- Extend and guarantee (3/8M - non-guaranteed year 3)

Isaiah Joe - TO @ $2.1M, or Ext. Eligible
- Decline TO, Extend and guarantee (3/$22M - team option year 3)

Aaron Wiggins - TO @ $1.9M, or Ext. Eligible
- Decline TO, Extend and guarantee (4/$35M - team option year 4)

Josh Giddey - Ext. Eligible
- Pick up option, and not extend (24-25 contract @ $8.3M, Giddey goes to RFA in Summer of 2025)

I think this is a valuable way to see what the league values Giddey at and actually let a player potentially reach RFA. It still gives OKC leeway in trading him before the Trade Deadline next season, and the receiving team may match the resulting RFA contract.


At this point we have 13 players on the roster
+
3 TW contracts
Keyonte Johnson
Adam Flagler
Olivier Sarr
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Re: OKC Thunder 2023-24 Regular Season Discussion 

Post#3247 » by Devilanche » Tue May 21, 2024 1:07 pm

cjmcallist wrote:
Kizz Fastfists wrote:
Big nick wrote:For all of us screaming for a big at the trade dead line it was reported sam tried to get a big just couldn't make a trade for one. We don't know what goes on behind the scenes. Hope to get one this summer.


Considering that it was OKC's 2024 FRP that was sent to Dallas then flipped to Washington an hour later for Gafford we all know that report is propaganda. There was no big traded at the deadline that Presti couldn't have easily beaten the offer on. He didn't try to get a big at the deadline. He had one of his propagandists put the story out there because he knows most fans can not figure out the obvious lie. If it were true, give the assets Presti had at his disposal and the trades that went down, then Presti is even more incompetent than I have ever given him credit for.

"Tried to get a big" is relative. I 'tried to get a new job' because I sent out one job application.

The bigs that moved at the deadline were all too expensive for the value that they bring. Doesn't mean Presti didn't "try".

I still think our problem was execution. When we played our game, Dallas couldn't stop us, bigs or not.

Yeap. Could just mean he call and ask.
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Re: OKC Thunder 2023-24 Regular Season Discussion 

Post#3248 » by Devilanche » Tue May 21, 2024 1:08 pm

Dadouv47 wrote:
cjmcallist wrote:
Kizz Fastfists wrote:
Considering that it was OKC's 2024 FRP that was sent to Dallas then flipped to Washington an hour later for Gafford we all know that report is propaganda. There was no big traded at the deadline that Presti couldn't have easily beaten the offer on. He didn't try to get a big at the deadline. He had one of his propagandists put the story out there because he knows most fans can not figure out the obvious lie. If it were true, give the assets Presti had at his disposal and the trades that went down, then Presti is even more incompetent than I have ever given him credit for.

"Tried to get a big" is relative. I 'tried to get a new job' because I sent out one job application.

The bigs that moved at the deadline were all too expensive for the value that they bring. Doesn't mean Presti didn't "try".

I still think our problem was execution. When we played our game, Dallas couldn't stop us, bigs or not.


I agree with this and I think that's the most positive thing (with Shai's performance) from those playoffs: our playing style works in the postseason. Doesn't mean we shouldn't add a better back up big or switch Giddey with a better PF but we don't have to change the way we play and those who think Chet should play at the 4 are crazy.


Chet is a 5 but if we somehow able to get a better 5 then 4 I don’t mind him playing some of his minutes at 4. Basically someone who can split minutes between the 2 spot. I want him to end game as 5 though.
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Re: OKC Thunder 2023-24 Regular Season Discussion 

Post#3249 » by Devilanche » Tue May 21, 2024 1:09 pm

Dadouv47 wrote:I wouldn't mind CP3 back. Yeah, he's old and not the kind of player we badly need but him leading our second unit could be nice. He wants his ring, knows how to adapt and to motivate young players.

With him it’s all about the salary . But yes if it fits I don’t mind him being the vet off the bench.
MoneyTalks41890 wrote:No I’m myopic and shortsighted and I want my pile of draft picks.
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Re: OKC Thunder 2023-24 Regular Season Discussion 

Post#3250 » by Kizz Fastfists » Tue May 21, 2024 1:36 pm

cjmcallist wrote:"Tried to get a big" is relative. I 'tried to get a new job' because I sent out one job application.

The bigs that moved at the deadline were all too expensive for the value that they bring. Doesn't mean Presti didn't "try".

I still think our problem was execution. When we played our game, Dallas couldn't stop us, bigs or not.


He made a phone call to Denver and ask about Jokic. Therefore he "tried". We all saw what happened at the deadline. If he had wanted a big then he would have gotten one. Ainge wouldn't have refused a better offer from OKC for Olynyk. Gafford was clearly an option given that most significant piece of that trade was OKC's 2024 FRP. PJ Washington could have been had as Presti could have easily beaten the offer. The market at the deadline was a buyers market. Players were traded for much less than expected. Presti either didn't want any of the bigs that were moved and was only inquiring about KAT, AD, Lauri, Jokic, etc for bigs or he wasn't interested at all.

If you tell me Presti's lone attempt to get a big was trying to get Lauri and Ainge wasn't willing to move him at any price I'd believe that. I also wouldn't call that trying to get a big.
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Re: OKC Thunder 2023-24 Regular Season Discussion 

Post#3251 » by cjmcallist » Tue May 21, 2024 7:29 pm

Kizz Fastfists wrote:
cjmcallist wrote:"Tried to get a big" is relative. I 'tried to get a new job' because I sent out one job application.

The bigs that moved at the deadline were all too expensive for the value that they bring. Doesn't mean Presti didn't "try".

I still think our problem was execution. When we played our game, Dallas couldn't stop us, bigs or not.


He made a phone call to Denver and ask about Jokic. Therefore he "tried". We all saw what happened at the deadline. If he had wanted a big then he would have gotten one. Ainge wouldn't have refused a better offer from OKC for Olynyk. Gafford was clearly an option given that most significant piece of that trade was OKC's 2024 FRP. PJ Washington could have been had as Presti could have easily beaten the offer. The market at the deadline was a buyers market. Players were traded for much less than expected. Presti either didn't want any of the bigs that were moved and was only inquiring about KAT, AD, Lauri, Jokic, etc for bigs or he wasn't interested at all.

If you tell me Presti's lone attempt to get a big was trying to get Lauri and Ainge wasn't willing to move him at any price I'd believe that. I also wouldn't call that trying to get a big.

This is most likely what I believe happened. Or, something like this. Though, I also believe that Presti would have offered the Hayward package for Olynyk. Either way, I believe he 'tried'.

Of course he could have beaten any offer, but I feel fine about him not doing it. Prices were too high IMO. After all, the same GM that traded for Olynyk just gave up the #8 pick for Poeltl. :lol:

I think this upcoming year I will feel differently. The team was a year ahead of my expectations but I'm caught up now.
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Re: OKC Thunder 2023-24 Regular Season Discussion 

Post#3252 » by Devilanche » Wed May 22, 2024 12:25 am

cjmcallist wrote:
Kizz Fastfists wrote:
cjmcallist wrote:"Tried to get a big" is relative. I 'tried to get a new job' because I sent out one job application.

The bigs that moved at the deadline were all too expensive for the value that they bring. Doesn't mean Presti didn't "try".

I still think our problem was execution. When we played our game, Dallas couldn't stop us, bigs or not.


He made a phone call to Denver and ask about Jokic. Therefore he "tried". We all saw what happened at the deadline. If he had wanted a big then he would have gotten one. Ainge wouldn't have refused a better offer from OKC for Olynyk. Gafford was clearly an option given that most significant piece of that trade was OKC's 2024 FRP. PJ Washington could have been had as Presti could have easily beaten the offer. The market at the deadline was a buyers market. Players were traded for much less than expected. Presti either didn't want any of the bigs that were moved and was only inquiring about KAT, AD, Lauri, Jokic, etc for bigs or he wasn't interested at all.

If you tell me Presti's lone attempt to get a big was trying to get Lauri and Ainge wasn't willing to move him at any price I'd believe that. I also wouldn't call that trying to get a big.

This is most likely what I believe happened. Or, something like this. Though, I also believe that Presti would have offered the Hayward package for Olynyk. Either way, I believe he 'tried'.

Of course he could have beaten any offer, but I feel fine about him not doing it. Prices were too high IMO. After all, the same GM that traded for Olynyk just gave up the #8 pick for Poeltl. :lol:

I think this upcoming year I will feel differently. The team was a year ahead of my expectations but I'm caught up now.

Olynyk and Poeltl were traded at different deadline
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Re: OKC Thunder 2023-24 Regular Season Discussion 

Post#3253 » by Kizz Fastfists » Wed May 22, 2024 1:23 am

cjmcallist wrote:This is most likely what I believe happened. Or, something like this. Though, I also believe that Presti would have offered the Hayward package for Olynyk. Either way, I believe he 'tried'.

Of course he could have beaten any offer, but I feel fine about him not doing it. Prices were too high IMO. After all, the same GM that traded for Olynyk just gave up the #8 pick for Poeltl. :lol:

I think this upcoming year I will feel differently. The team was a year ahead of my expectations but I'm caught up now.


Olynyk was traded for the lesser of OKC/LAC/HOU picks. This means that the pick OKC traded to Dallas, the 2nd worst of those three picks, would have beaten the Toronto offer. If your scenario is correct and Presti offered the package for Olynyk that he did for Hayward then he valued a 2028 pick swap with Dallas, a team that will most likely still have Luka in his prime, over adding Olynyk and improving the team this year. He also would have, theoretically, kept his two 2nd round picks he sent Washington.

Presti made a move that might yield a reward around 2030, as late FRP players don't typical contribute much as rookies of ever, instead of playing for 2024. That is terrible resource management for a team that was 1st in the conference in SRS, point differential and every other measurement of which team was the best in the West. Presti opting to attempt to build the 2030 roster, by maybe being better than a prime Luka led Dallas team in the future, over building to win now is complete incompetence. The fact that you are arguing that it was a good idea not to trade the 26th pick for Olynyk, who was traded for #29, but giving it away for a pick swap that might not even happen was better is confusing. Care to explain why you think the price for Olynyk was too high to pay, but paying the same price for something that might not convey was a better decision?

It is highly unlikely that even if the pick conveys Presti will get a decent player with it given his history of picking in the 20s. Even if he would have had to add that pick on top of the rest of the Hayward offer to get Olynyk it is a move a contending team should make 100 times out of 100 instead of adding a player that makes the team worse. If Presti had done nothing at the deadline OKC would have had a better roster in the playoffs. At least they could have experimented with Bertans in an attempt to add some size to a lineup that was getting crushed by size.
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Re: OKC Thunder 2023-24 Regular Season Discussion 

Post#3254 » by Devilanche » Wed May 22, 2024 2:14 am

We might have seen Poku in the playoff .

On Poku island forever and always.
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Re: OKC Thunder 2023-24 Regular Season Discussion 

Post#3255 » by Dadouv47 » Wed May 22, 2024 7:43 am

Devilanche wrote:We might have seen Poku in the playoff .

On Poku island forever and always.


Trading Poku was a tanking move and proves Kizz theory right about Presti not willing to win a championship
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Re: OKC Thunder 2023-24 Regular Season Discussion 

Post#3256 » by Big nick » Wed May 22, 2024 9:11 am

Dadouv47 wrote:
Devilanche wrote:We might have seen Poku in the playoff .

On Poku island forever and always.


Trading Poku was a tanking move and proves Kizz theory right about Presti not willing to win a championship

What poku was horrible not a nba player on a good team.
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Re: OKC Thunder 2023-24 Regular Season Discussion 

Post#3257 » by Dadouv47 » Wed May 22, 2024 11:41 am

We had good PFs in Poku, Bazley or Roby. Presti messed up.

Seriously speaking, I have no clue which PF is good enough for us to trade Giddey+ and be confident about having a major improvement and that guy being the "missing piece". Don't see which very good PF can be available this summer...
I think it's more likely we will trade for another wing and keep Jdub at the 4.
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Re: OKC Thunder 2023-24 Regular Season Discussion 

Post#3258 » by Clav » Wed May 22, 2024 5:36 pm

Dadouv47 wrote:We had good PFs in Poku, Bazley or Roby. Presti messed up.

Seriously speaking, I have no clue which PF is good enough for us to trade Giddey+ and be confident about having a major improvement and that guy being the "missing piece". Don't see which very good PF can be available this summer...
I think it's more likely we will trade for another wing and keep Jdub at the 4.



Exactly. And Bazley was just awarded NBA GL 2nd team and GL All-Defense awards.
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Re: OKC Thunder 2023-24 Regular Season Discussion 

Post#3259 » by Bremzi » Wed May 22, 2024 6:09 pm

Dadouv47 wrote:We had good PFs in Poku, Bazley or Roby. Presti messed up.

Seriously speaking, I have no clue which PF is good enough for us to trade Giddey+ and be confident about having a major improvement and that guy being the "missing piece". Don't see which very good PF can be available this summer...
I think it's more likely we will trade for another wing and keep Jdub at the 4.


You can look at it from a different angle. What exactly does Giddey do ‘great’ currently in the starting lineup as it is? He is not as great of a rebounder as normal bigs. He has no gravity towards his shooting and is not a threat around the basket where he cant really dunk or be an alley-oop threat. He is no menace on the defensive side. He is great at inbounding the ball, but other than that, due to him being off the ball, he doesnt provide anything else substantially. Can he improve on his shortcomings? Probably.

But right now, theres not many NBA rotational bigs that would not be a better fit. They can either defend better, rebound better, pose a larger threat offensively or shoot better. The ‘not available’ is nonsense. With the treasure chest of picks that Presti has, he can go get whomever he wants. Hell, it could be argued that by next seasons end, a future rookie big would be a substantial plus in a team wide OKC concept starting five.
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Re: OKC Thunder 2023-24 Regular Season Discussion 

Post#3260 » by Dadouv47 » Thu May 23, 2024 7:10 am

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