Thanks for not drafting Bayless!

McG · Post #21 » by **McG** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 11:36 pm

wizkid27 wrote:You know Presti picked Westbrook over Bayless, right? I would say that Bayless (in your description) would be the "best scorer in the draft (with average defense)" and Westbrook is the "best perimeter defender in the draft (with no offense)...

Please see my REVISED statement and thanks for adding nothing to this discussion.

Rywall · Post #22 » by **Rywall** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:12 am

McG, the best scorer in the draft is Beasley.

Anyway, Bayless is by far the more superior scorer, that is indisputable. However i do feel that Westbrook is the better decision. While you may be right that OKC has no real shooters besides Durant on the team, that doesn't mean it will remain that way. Their is no question that OKC is in complete rebuilding mode, and that they will look to add better scorers and better shooters as the process progresses.

I like the decision to draft Westbrook for many different reasons. Of course he plays great defense (which can't be overlooked at all), but he also has a great attitude and is a winner. Presti (coming from the RC Buford family) seems as if he is making a great effort to build around Durant with players that will play defense and be great teammates (leading to better chemistry).

Westbrook is not as good of a scorer as Bayless, and I have also heard that Bayless has an exceptional work ethic himself. That being said, Bayless will look to create more opportunities for himself, and if he doesn't shoot himself then most times he will make the final pass. While that is good when you take into account statistics like points and assists, there are times when it bogs down the offense and players become disgruntled that they have less touches earlier in possessions than they would like. With a player like Durant who will command a lot of touches and a lot of shots, that might become a problem. Since Westbrook won't be looking to create nearly as much offense for himself, the ball will be moved through the offense much more frequently, and in effect, players will be given higher percentage shots.
I do realize that this is assuming a lot. First of all their is the question of whether or not Westbrook will be able to develop into a point guard able to facilitate an effective offense. Second, it assumes that during this rebuilding process Presti will be able to add another highly efficient scorer either in the low post or and the shooting guard position. Finally, it assumes that greater shooting will be added to the team.
I do think Bayless if a great addition for a team like Portland that has so many different things going for them with Roy, Oden, Aldridge, ect. and he will be able to immediately improve them with their scoring. However, with OKC it seems as if they are putting a premium on defense and chemistry, and i support that.

Rywall · Post #23 » by **Rywall** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:26 am

I was reading an article on nbadraft.net that i thought was appropriate with some of what we have discuss.
Jerryd Bayless -- 29.8 ppg, 48.5 fg%, 4.8 rpg -- Bayless was dominant scoring nearly 30 ppg and leading all scorers in Vegas by a wide margin (over 7 points). His ability to get by his man and to the rim at will makes him extremely difficult to defend and his outside shot opens up his ability to drive. His final game in particular, he torched a solid defender in DJ Strawberry to the tune of 36 points including the final 11 points of the game plus the game winner. Bayless has a Kobe Bryant type of arrogance and focus to his game that should ultimately make him a star at the NBA level. He may take some lumps before reaching stardom as a combo guard, but he enters a dream situation playing alongside Brandon Roy, a big point guard who will allow Jerryd to defend point guards while playing off the ball on offense.

I felt like adding this because i agree that this is the best scenario for Bayless. He will be able to guard the smaller players on defense, while playing at the offensive position that best utilizes his skills, sg. Thus making the negative effects of a combo guard absent.

J~Rush · Post #24 » by **J~Rush** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 1:56 am

What a lame thread for a non-okc fan to make.

bmw42690 · Post #25 » by **bmw42690** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 5:06 am

Adding Miles to the mix will help the scoring load a bit. I agree that Bayless would ease that load even more but you need someone that could slow down other top PGs. Chris Paul owned Dallas in the playoffs and Tony Parker has owned Phoenix in the past as well. Even with Phoenix getting good games offensively from Nash, Parker burns him on the other end. That tells me that you need a defensive PG. Im not saying i wouldnt be happy with Bayless because i dont think we could have went wrong.

OzThunder · Post #26 » by **OzThunder** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 8:08 am

ljp24 wrote:Are you honestly comparing Nate Robinson to Jerryd Bayless?

log off

i love these agressive computer put downs....

all he's saying is that nate robinson (and marcus banks) have been 2 high scoring combo guards in summer league that can't seem to put up any numbers in the regular season.

london sonic · Post #27 » by **london sonic** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 1:12 pm

summer league competition isnt the nba.lets see how the bayless v westbrook discussion pans out during the season.I must say kevin pritchard is a outstanding gm and the players he's aquired over the last few years drafts roy,aldridge and now bayless and batum is pure genius.I hope presti's picks emulate pritchards.

Post #28 » by **wizkid27** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 3:42 pm

One point that I've heard a couple of times about why we chose Westbrook, is that in the West you need a defensive PG. I think that you have to just build your team to build your team... not to beat a certain lineup of a certain team. For example, there were several years that I feel like teams took huge guys that sucked at basketball just because they had to play against Shaq. Shaq moved conferences and eventually got worse, and those teams surely wish they would've just taken a player to fit into their long-term plan instead of one to counter another team's roster.

bmw42690 · Post #29 » by **bmw42690** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 4:33 pm

I'm not saying that Westbrook was drafted to beat a certain team. Plus i think he can defend both guard spots so that helps because most teams have at least one good player at a guard spot.. The Spurs, Hornets, Blazers, and Jazz all are playoff caliber teams and have young PGs who are leading them and probably wont be leaving those teams anytime soon. Which teams are you talking about in your Shaq mention? Just wondering which ones your were thinking.

Post #30 » by **wizkid27** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 4:46 pm

Yeah, and at the same time, I'm not saying pass on a guy because you can see an opponent that he can help you beat. We'll always be playing against teams that have great PGs, regardless of who it specifically is. Defense in a point guard is important and I think that Presti really put an emphasis on that by taking Westbrook over guys like Gordon and Bayless.

I would say pretty much all of the 7 foot stiff drafted in the "Shaq era". Olowokandi, Bryant Reeves, Ostertag, Araujo, Foyle come to mind. Just seemed like guys were being overrated not just because of their size, but because they could be "shaq stoppers".

McG · Post #31 » by **McG** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:09 pm

Rywall wrote:McG, the best scorer in the draft is Beasley.

Time will tell but I'm betting Bayless will have a higher (and more efficient) peak scoring average.

Rywall wrote:While you may be right that OKC has no real shooters besides Durant on the team, that doesn't mean it will remain that way. Their is no question that OKC is in complete rebuilding mode, and that they will look to add better scorers and better shooters as the process progresses.

I guarantee that this will hinder Durant's development, forcing him to take bad shots for a lack of anyone to pass to. Do you really want your 20-year-old star carrying the ENTIRE weight of the offense for 82 games a season? This could be a serious injury waiting to happen.

Rywall wrote:Westbrook is not as good of a scorer as Bayless, and I have also heard that Bayless has an exceptional work ethic himself. That being said, Bayless will look to create more opportunities for himself, and if he doesn't shoot himself then most times he will make the final pass. While that is good when you take into account statistics like points and assists, there are times when it bogs down the offense and players become disgruntled that they have less touches earlier in possessions than they would like.

This whole thought process makes very little sense. You need to check your confirmation bias on every one of these points and analyze the situation realistically. You make it sound like a bad thing that a team can have 2 offensive weapons. I hope you can think of a few examples where this has worked quite differently (such as EVERY NBA team to win over 40 games in a season).

Rywall wrote:and players become disgruntled that they have less touches earlier in possessions than they would like. With a player like Durant who will command a lot of touches and a lot of shots, that might become a problem.

Obviously you are one of the many new fans yet to watch a Sonics game. This was the case ALL of last season with Watson running the point, and it really didn't 'disgruntle' anyone. With the (lack of) offense next season Durant will be forced to jack up around 25 shots a game, forcing a drop off from his late season shot selection improvement.

Rywall wrote:Since Westbrook won't be looking to create nearly as much offense for himself, the ball will be moved through the offense much more frequently, and in effect, players will be given higher percentage shots.

Yes, putting a non-shooter/non-playmaker like Westbrook in the game will definitely make everyone shoot around 60% from the field when they double Durant ALL GAME and let everyone else shoot jumpers from the outside. This will easily be the worst offense in the league next year.

bmw42690 · Post #32 » by **bmw42690** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:15 pm

I dont know what your opinion of Gordon was but i was hoping they wouldnt pick him. To me, he is more of a SG and that really turned me away especially because of his size. I'm not saying he is a bad player but i just think Westbrook and Bayless are more suited to play PG.

The funny thing about those big guys is 3 of those guys were lottery picks and none of those 3 are in the league anymore (I'm not sure where Olowokandi is since i havent heard much of him recently).

thegreatblaze · Post #33 » by **thegreatblaze** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 2:41 am

Tsk tsk tsk. I apologize to all the fans on this board. What a dumb thread. You know better than this 'Oden'.

cdash · Post #34 » by **cdash** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 5:34 am

I actually think Westbrook will be a superior pro to Bayless. If he can learn to run the point efficiently, then watch out. His offense is underrated and his defensive potential is outstanding. Good size for a point guard with elite athleticism...I love this pick by Presti, and I am not an OKC fan.

As for Bayless, well, I think he ultimately is a scorer. I think he is more of a combo guard than anything, which is fine, but Westbrook's potential (to me) is better. Bayless fits well in Portland though. He and Brandon Roy will be very nice complements to one another in the backcourt.

LightsOut514 · Post #35 » by **LightsOut514** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 3:46 am

McG, you are really going to feel foolish when you see what Westbrook does in the NBA.

Presti knows his stuff. Great pick and I'm thrilled about the future.

Basketball1 · Post #36 » by **Basketball1** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 5:05 am

Oden wrote:Westbrook will be a great player for O.C. but Bayless looks like the real deal! Every mock under the sun had Bayless going to you guys.

Bayless will be an amazing additon to our already deep team.

lol, blazer homers at it again. What's next:

Bayless > CP3
Roy > MJ
Oden > Wilt
Webster > Bird

McG · Post #37 » by **McG** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 5:08 pm

LightsOut514 wrote:McG, you are really going to feel foolish when you see what Westbrook does in the NBA.

And you will look foolish when you realize what a better pick Bayless would have been.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I hate Westbrook as a player. I hate the fact that the only two things he brings to a team are defense and transition offense. He will never do many of the things that would complement KD very well, such as develop true PG skills and become an offensive threat.

BlzrsExplosion · Post #38 » by **BlzrsExplosion** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 7:32 pm

Portland fans would have been plenty happy coming out of the draft with Westbrook. They (ok...we) would be going on and on about how Westbrook is the PERFECT fit next to Roy. We needed guard who can defend! We'd say. Not a scorer like Gordon or...(heh) Bayless...and not a small guy like Augustin.

Interestingly, your team over the past two years has drafted three guys who Blazer fans were very interested in. Durant, Green and Westbrook. If we hadn't walked away from the same two drafts with Oden, Fernandez and Bayless we'd be very very jealous.

I'm sure we'll have plenty of debates over Durant/Oden and Westbrook/Bayless over the next few years. Let's wait until we have some information on how their games translate to the NBA though.

BTW: all nba players are prone to getting injured. Watch the karma!

Joe Jackson · Post #39 » by **Joe Jackson** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 9:40 pm

How did Westbrook and Bayless do when facing each other in the Pac-10? I'm curious and too lazy to try to dig it up.
Anybody know?

a_sensei · Post #40 » by **a_sensei** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 3:57 am

Another Blazer fan here to say that this is a stupid thread. If our months of pre-draft board conversation is any indication, Westbrook may have been our most popular target. Not that much anyone is upset by getting Bayless. Please don't judge Blazer fans by a trollish post just like we won't judge your fans by the few that try to talk s**t about Sonic fans.