All Things Thunder Offseason Thread

[Big nick]

For sure I wanted to draft some size up front but it didn't happen. I am not against who we drafted and I think johnson might be a steal with pretty good size that can score and shoot. I know Sam has some faults but he is one of the best gms in the NBA. Let's just see what plays out with this team. If chet can stay healthy I believe we are building a contender. And I believe we get some value out micic which will help. I mean everyone is talking about how set up we are.

[The Servant]

You say he is building an unbalanced roster, I think he is building a long team of players that are both good defensively and can all pass and play positionless basketball.

How long can they really be if they have to play Kendrick and JDub at PF and sometimes center?

I mean Jalen Williams has a 7'2 wingspan at 6'6. Draymond Green has a 7'1 wingspan at 6'7 and he plays fine on the Warriors. We are about to add a genetic freak in Chet that has a 7'6 wingspan.

I think a lot of these fears are a little overblown on immediately needing a PF as long as Chet stays healthy and people are being hugely impatient at the moment. So many people think with a rookie PF we would be contending against Jokic and the Nuggets who just demolished LeBron James and Anthony Davis, and KD and Booker... You do realize we are 1 year out of a rebuild, and are about to be starting a sophomore and a rookie in our starting line up right? You guys really think we are going to the finals next year with rookie Lively at the 4 and rookie Chet at the 5? LMAO.

Don't get me wrong, I wanted Lively but be patient guys.. Just 3 and 4 seasons ago we won 44 and 49 games and were in the yoffs. Chet unfortunately had a season ender and our #2 pick is just about to start his rookie season. Dunno where all of this win now stuff is coming from, it's unrealistic. There are so many big men busts out there and people are pulling their hair out over a guy who could be the next Bagley, Anthony Bennet, Willie Caulie-Stein etc etc. No need to be dramatic, gents.

Presti has shown some nice trades in the past. He acquired PG13, he's acquired Victor Oladipo, he's acquired SGA. He has a ton of assets and lots of talent on this roster. I believe when the time comes he will do what needs to be done. He has knocked a lot of trades out of the park. You need some time to see how the roster performs and how the pieces fit and for rookies to develop before you pull a nice trade off.

[ThunderBolt]

The win now stuff for me comes from the fact that we have a first team all nba guy on our team and he's older than the other core guys. Last rebuild the win now moves came too late. I don't think Sam has to make push his chips all in right now but I've said I'm growing tired of him killing enthusiasm for the team in his media appearances.

[jake_swivel]

? You guys really think we are going to the finals next year with rookie Lively at the 4 and rookie Chet at the 5? LMAO.

Don't get me wrong, I wanted Lively but be patient guys.. Just 3 and 4 seasons ago we won 44 and 49 games and were in the yoffs. Chet unfortunately had a season ender and our #2 pick is just about to start his rookie season. Dunno where all of this win now stuff is coming from, it's unrealistic. There are so many big men busts out there and people are pulling their hair out over a guy who could be the next Bagley, Anthony Bennet, Willie Caulie-Stein etc etc. No need to be dramatic, gents.

Well, I definitely didn’t want lively. He’s for sure not the mold we’ve been told the team is trending towards.

Tone is hard to read on the internet. To quote myself, I said I was “a little annoyed”. I’ve enjoyed the rebuilding process and I’ll continue to with all of the assets left to convey. Sam makes being a fan entertaining. And this is “realgm”. It’s ok to question the general manager’s moves. Even if he’s Sam presti. Reddit is the space for “no questioning Sam almighty”.

I don’t think anyone thought the team was contending next year. But getting to contending is a process of building experience. The nuggets didn’t get to the finals without semi finals and conference finals experience. Neither did golden state. Unless you’re hand delivered lebron and superstars, contention is something you grow towards with playoff experience. We have a first team all nba guy on the team. Let’s start growing. And we have the luxury of being able to do that while still developing players.

[Xatticus]

You say he is building an unbalanced roster, I think he is building a long team of players that are both good defensively and can all pass and play positionless basketball.

How long can they really be if they have to play Kendrick and JDub at PF and sometimes center?

I mean Jalen Williams has a 7'2 wingspan at 6'6. Draymond Green has a 7'1 wingspan at 6'7 and he plays fine on the Warriors. We are about to add a genetic freak in Chet that has a 7'6 wingspan.

I think a lot of these fears are a little overblown on immediately needing a PF as long as Chet stays healthy and people are being hugely impatient at the moment. So many people think with a rookie PF we would be contending against Jokic and the Nuggets who just demolished LeBron James and Anthony Davis, and KD and Booker... You do realize we are 1 year out of a rebuild, and are about to be starting a sophomore and a rookie in our starting line up right? You guys really think we are going to the finals next year with rookie Lively at the 4 and rookie Chet at the 5? LMAO.

Don't get me wrong, I wanted Lively but be patient guys.. Just 3 and 4 seasons ago we won 44 and 49 games and were in the yoffs. Chet unfortunately had a season ender and our #2 pick is just about to start his rookie season. Dunno where all of this win now stuff is coming from, it's unrealistic. There are so many big men busts out there and people are pulling their hair out over a guy who could be the next Bagley, Anthony Bennet, Willie Caulie-Stein etc etc. No need to be dramatic, gents.

Presti has shown some nice trades in the past. He acquired PG13, he's acquired Victor Oladipo, he's acquired SGA. He has a ton of assets and lots of talent on this roster. I believe when the time comes he will do what needs to be done. He has knocked a lot of trades out of the park. You need some time to see how the roster performs and how the pieces fit and for rookies to develop before you pull a nice trade off.

I'm not concerned with adding a PF. It doesn't much matter how you are labeled. What matters is what you bring to the floor. My concerns are our dearth of second-level defense (rim/paint protection) and our inability to cope with guys like Valanciunas. There are some imposing individuals in the league against whom we lack a proper foil. And while Holmgren will address these concerns significantly, I'm not comfortable with leaning too heavily on him for such matchups as they will wear him down. He should be eased into this role as he develops.

It's apparent to me that Presti isn't overly concerned by any of this. He wants bigs that have ball skills and shooting. For me, we won't be legitimate contenders until these shortcomings are dealt with. It's an achilles' heel and there will always be some teams that can exploit it. Nobody can stop Jokic... sure. But that doesn't mean there is no difference between throwing JRE or Anthony Davis at him. There are degrees of failure.

None of this relates to John Collins at all. He isn't that guy. I think it's a nice buy for Ainge. There was a time when Collins was an asset and he could be again if he can regain his shooting form. Utah doesn't seem to be an ideal fit, but it can't be worse than was his situation in Atlanta. I never was a big fan of Collins though. He mucks things up in the paint at the offensive end.

[Dn4sty]

The win now stuff for me comes from the fact that we have a first team all nba guy on our team and he's older than the other core guys. Last rebuild the win now moves came too late. I don't think Sam has to make push his chips all in right now but I've said I'm growing tired of him killing enthusiasm for the team in his media appearances.

I down with a push, but I struggle to find the player(s) that give them that push and are actually available. I guess I’d pick someone like OG, but is he really available and is he willing to take less than the max next offseason? I want nothing to do with KAT, and I’m not really enamored with any of the above average FAs in this class, to the point where I think it makes sense to give them a $100 million dollar contract

[Kizz Fastfists]

The win now stuff for me comes from the fact that we have a first team all nba guy on our team and he's older than the other core guys. Last rebuild the win now moves came too late. I don't think Sam has to make push his chips all in right now but I've said I'm growing tired of him killing enthusiasm for the team in his media appearances.

I don't think people understand that SGA is older than Luka. If Dallas weren't aggressively trying to put the pieces around him needed to win like a defensive anchor center, etc. Dallas fans would be calling for the Cuban and the front office to be hung. OKC fans sitting around talking about how excited they are for the 2024, 2025 and 2026 drafts without a care in the world about wins and losses. Just sickening that these people call themselves fans. Nico Harris shoved a cactus straight up Presti's butt on draft night and the "fans" are happy. Dallas got the player they wanted while dumping one of the worst contracts in the NBA. OKC got guard #73 and told the fans to sit down, shut up and maybe we'll try to be a real team in 2030.

It doesn't help that no one in the local media understands anything about basketball to educate the people. I got told after OKC got eliminated from the play-in games that they were full of all-NBA talent and they didn't need to add anything to win a championship. Tragically, that is how ignorant the average Thunder fan is. There is no accountability for the on the court product and it shows. The only accountability is that the profit flows.

Can you imagine an OU fan being happy with any OU coach if they had a Heisman finalist QB that had no protections, won 6 games and said "we are trusting our process and the wins will eventually come" and refused to recruit offensive linemen ? They'd be lined up with ropes and pitchforks. These same people think the professional franchise should be run like a high school team. The real problem could be too many OSU fans with no standards for winning being vocal about winning doesn't matter because they never rooted for a team that tasted success.

[jake_swivel]

I don't think people understand that SGA is older than Luka. If Dallas weren't aggressively trying to put the pieces around him needed to win like a defensive anchor center, etc. Dallas fans would be calling for the Cuban and the front office to be hung.

The reason Dallas is in a bad spot is because they mortgaged the future too early on porzingis and hardaway jr. Now they have to take huge risks like trading for kyrie on the last year of his contract. So yeah. Sometimes ignoring pitchforks is best.

[Dadouv47]

Dallas is a bigger market, can get guys like Kyrie. They had terrible cap space issues and no assets so those are totally different situations (also Luka locked for one less season than SGA). But yeah while I'm fine in a vacuum with the slow rebuild mode in a small market like OKC, I still think we have a SGA "problem" and we should definitely try to improve adding a vet...it won't hurt our young players development.

[Dn4sty]

Nico Harrison did trade for Kyrie Irving right and is now ready to hand him a max contract?

Or is that just somehow forgotten?

[Andre Roberstan]

It doesn't help that no one in the local media understands anything about basketball to educate the people. I got told after OKC got eliminated from the play-in games that they were full of all-NBA talent and they didn't need to add anything to win a championship. Tragically, that is how ignorant the average Thunder fan is. There is no accountability for the on the court product and it shows. The only accountability is that the profit flows.

Can you imagine an OU fan being happy with any OU coach if they had a Heisman finalist QB that had no protections, won 6 games and said "we are trusting our process and the wins will eventually come" and refused to recruit offensive linemen ? They'd be lined up with ropes and pitchforks. These same people think the professional franchise should be run like a high school team. The real problem could be too many OSU fans with no standards for winning being vocal about winning doesn't matter because they never rooted for a team that tasted success.

my brother in basketball, please take your blood pressure medication.

winning matters, but we've seen both the sixers and the pelicans short circuit rebuilds (twice in the pelicans' case!) by jumping the gun and emptying the clip to overpay mid tier guys. i'm with the people that want to get another good vet, but your fury is unwarranted. if presti isn't in the mix for any team that might trade a top 20 guy, i'll eat my hat.

gms lie. myers talked about being excited to have poole on the team moving forward and traded him two days later.

(also: DALLAS is your example of what OKC should do? dallas hasn't done dick since Dirk was good, and that championship team was kind of fluky. cuban keeps swinging for the fences in free agency and overpaying guys who aren't that good, and the guys that HAVE been good they haven't kept.)

[jake_swivel]

Dallas is a bigger market, can get guys like Kyrie. They had terrible cap space issues and no assets so those are totally different situations (also Luka locked for one less season than SGA). But yeah while I'm fine in a vacuum with the slow rebuild mode in a small market like OKC, I still think we have a SGA "problem" and we should definitely try to improve adding a vet...it won't hurt our young players development.

Dallas got kyrie because he’s a flat earther, anti semitic, franchise killing, radioactive weirdo.

[Kizz Fastfists]

(also: DALLAS is your example of what OKC should do? dallas hasn't done dick since Dirk was good, and that championship team was kind of fluky. cuban keeps swinging for the fences in free agency and overpaying guys who aren't that good, and the guys that HAVE been good they haven't kept.)

Dallas is an example of making a great move on draft night. Adding the player you needed and wanted while dumping a terrible contract in the process. Dallas was taking Lively at 10, but then Presti showed his ass and saved them money by taking one of the few contracts worse than Dort in the league and saving them on a rookie contract for a player that OKC did not need. I was over Presti when he traded for PG13. He just continues to prove he has no interest in winning. His entire reputation is based on Durant falling in his lap and a few picks he made 15 years ago.

[Devilanche]

I’m a little annoyed with Sam’s handling of the last couple weeks.

Specifically?

Picking up another guard ?
Trading up by absorbing contract thereby forgoing free agency ?
Not trading for Collins instead ?

It’s less the specific moves and more the general roster construction. I have zero belief in any “big” not named Chet. I’d rather not spend an entire season rolling out Kendrick and JDub at PF. And sometimes center. Poku keeps breaking rather important bones and Dieng won’t be ready. It’s not that John Collins is great. But you need a big of some sort. And it seems like presti’s committed to going small ball with a 190 pound, largely unproven, 20 year old, 7 footer with foot problems being the only real big other than Jwill. Clearly he’s wanting an unconventional roster and I’m down with that. But you need Chet insurance.

The off-season isn’t over. Free agency hasn’t even started. But it feels like he’s locked himself in this spot with only about $10 million to spend and a ton of contracts already on the books.

If the annoyance is that we don’t have another more proven big to add to the rotation , I’m with you on this . I’m ok even if we are getting just a 3rd big material kind of guy. Just someone to absorb some minutes.

[Dadouv47]

(also: DALLAS is your example of what OKC should do? dallas hasn't done dick since Dirk was good, and that championship team was kind of fluky. cuban keeps swinging for the fences in free agency and overpaying guys who aren't that good, and the guys that HAVE been good they haven't kept.)

Dallas is an example of making a great move on draft night. Adding the player you needed and wanted while dumping a terrible contract in the process. Dallas was taking Lively at 10, but then Presti showed his ass and saved them money by taking one of the few contracts worse than Dort in the league and saving them on a rookie contract for a player that OKC did not need. I was over Presti when he traded for PG13. He just continues to prove he has no interest in winning. His entire reputation is based on Durant falling in his lap and a few picks he made 15 years ago.

Bertans contract is bad but far from being one of the worst in the NBA since it will have only 5 millions guaranteed in 2024-2025. He might not pick his option so this is likely a 17 millions expiring. His contract is not an issue for us even if #12 + taking on 17 or 22 millions for #10 was obviously an overpay

[Devilanche]

I'm not concerned with adding a PF. It doesn't much matter how you are labeled. What matters is what you bring to the floor. My concerns are our dearth of second-level defense (rim/paint protection) and our inability to cope with guys like Valanciunas. There are some imposing individuals in the league against whom we lack a proper foil. And while Holmgren will address these concerns significantly, I'm not comfortable with leaning too heavily on him for such matchups as they will wear him down. He should be eased into this role as he develops.

I’m concerned with this as well. I want as many minutes as realistic for Chet but probably only half of those guarding other starting C.

[Born_Ready]

Kyrie on the court is one of the best players you will ever witness play the game - but his all about me, me first attitude is unsettling.

I imagine having him as an employee or a teammate is a complex experience. It is frustrating from a fan POV that his antics off the court can be difficult to articulate, and sadly he doesn’t care if he annoys people in the process.

He is a hellva basketball player though.

[Devilanche]

(also: DALLAS is your example of what OKC should do? dallas hasn't done dick since Dirk was good, and that championship team was kind of fluky. cuban keeps swinging for the fences in free agency and overpaying guys who aren't that good, and the guys that HAVE been good they haven't kept.)

Dallas is an example of making a great move on draft night. Adding the player you needed and wanted while dumping a terrible contract in the process. Dallas was taking Lively at 10, but then Presti showed his ass and saved them money by taking one of the few contracts worse than Dort in the league and saving them on a rookie contract for a player that OKC did not need. I was over Presti when he traded for PG13. He just continues to prove he has no interest in winning. His entire reputation is based on Durant falling in his lap and a few picks he made 15 years ago.

Bertans contract is bad but far from being one of the worst in the NBA since it will have only 5 millions guaranteed in 2024-2025. He might not pick his option so this is likely a 17 millions expiring. His contract is not an issue for us even if #12 + taking on 17 or 22 millions for #10 was obviously an overpay

His contract is only an issue if one has envisioned us doing something with all that cap space.

Or at least something more than moving up 2 spot for a luxury.

[retrobro90]

Bertans can still have big value for OKC even as an expiring next summer. Dort was the only high $ guy they could feasibly move in a trade. Now they can easily get to max level matching power with Bertans+Dort if someone becomes available next summer.

Also Kizz since the PG trade? Russ was coming off an MVP season and Presti pulls a rabbit out of a hat trading two guys (one of whom many thought was overpaid on his 80m extension) for a proven all-nba level costar? Who then in turn had an MVP level season of his own before getting moved for maybe the greatest haul of assets ever received in a trade? Sam has his share of mistakes especially in the KD days but I'm confounded on that criticism

[Andre Roberstan]

(also: DALLAS is your example of what OKC should do? dallas hasn't done dick since Dirk was good, and that championship team was kind of fluky. cuban keeps swinging for the fences in free agency and overpaying guys who aren't that good, and the guys that HAVE been good they haven't kept.)

Dallas is an example of making a great move on draft night. Adding the player you needed and wanted while dumping a terrible contract in the process. Dallas was taking Lively at 10, but then Presti showed his ass and saved them money by taking one of the few contracts worse than Dort in the league and saving them on a rookie contract for a player that OKC did not need. I was over Presti when he traded for PG13. He just continues to prove he has no interest in winning. His entire reputation is based on Durant falling in his lap and a few picks he made 15 years ago.

All right, man, your opinion.