All Things Thunder Offseason Thread

[ThunderBolt]

It seems like it’s pretty common that Presti is either the GOAT or the WOAT among fans. I’ve never understood the two extremes. Look at the teams that have won a title recently. They’ve been good but far from flawless.

Denver traded back and gave Utah Donovan Mitchell for Trey Lyles. That might be a dynasty killer move in hindsight. They exiled Bones Hyland after they drafted him. Although not the front offices fault, Grant bailed on them.

GS is pretty close to having squandered multiple lottery picks that could have extended their dynasty longer. Jordan Poole helped last year but became a salary dump.

Time won’t allow us to delve in to the lakers mistakes.

Both before and after Kawhi, the Raps have become a high level treadmill team.


All of those franchises has differences than okc but one thing they share in common is all nba level talent. Shai isn’t on the level of prime Lebron, Jokic and Steph but it’s not inconceivable he puts together an mvp level season. We have three other rookie contracts to be excited about. I’m not mad about the draft or John Collins. We’ve had very little happen in this rebuild that has slowed our progress, aside from Chet. I understand waiting and not rushing it like the hawks but if you wait too long you end up with a star that tears blows out his knee and your window is closed.

[ThunderBolt]

By the way, Schlecht being adamant about Giddey being better than JDub is weird.

[ThunderBolt]

The win now stuff for me comes from the fact that we have a first team all nba guy on our team and he's older than the other core guys. Last rebuild the win now moves came too late. I don't think Sam has to make push his chips all in right now but I've said I'm growing tired of him killing enthusiasm for the team in his media appearances.

I down with a push, but I struggle to find the player(s) that give them that push and are actually available. I guess I’d pick someone like OG, but is he really available and is he willing to take less than the max next offseason? I want nothing to do with KAT, and I’m not really enamored with any of the above average FAs in this class, to the point where I think it makes sense to give them a $100 million dollar contract

Yea my gripes are more hypothetical. There isn’t one player I’m adamant about acquiring but I think a move to make sure this team gets meaningful playoff experience this year is valuable. Regardless of the level of talent, these guys will have to get their butts kicked and hearts broken before they have the maturity to win it all.

[ThunderBolt]

I'm not concerned with adding a PF. It doesn't much matter how you are labeled. What matters is what you bring to the floor. My concerns are our dearth of second-level defense (rim/paint protection) and our inability to cope with guys like Valanciunas. There are some imposing individuals in the league against whom we lack a proper foil. And while Holmgren will address these concerns significantly, I'm not comfortable with leaning too heavily on him for such matchups as they will wear him down. He should be eased into this role as he develops.

I’m concerned with this as well. I want as many minutes as realistic for Chet but probably only half of those guarding other starting C.

I still like PJ Washington but I think that ship has sailed.

[ThunderBolt]

(also: DALLAS is your example of what OKC should do? dallas hasn't done dick since Dirk was good, and that championship team was kind of fluky. cuban keeps swinging for the fences in free agency and overpaying guys who aren't that good, and the guys that HAVE been good they haven't kept.)

Dallas is an example of making a great move on draft night. Adding the player you needed and wanted while dumping a terrible contract in the process. Dallas was taking Lively at 10, but then Presti showed his ass and saved them money by taking one of the few contracts worse than Dort in the league and saving them on a rookie contract for a player that OKC did not need. I was over Presti when he traded for PG13. He just continues to prove he has no interest in winning. His entire reputation is based on Durant falling in his lap and a few picks he made 15 years ago.

Serious question, how do you handle being a cubs fan?

[Dn4sty]

(also: DALLAS is your example of what OKC should do? dallas hasn't done dick since Dirk was good, and that championship team was kind of fluky. cuban keeps swinging for the fences in free agency and overpaying guys who aren't that good, and the guys that HAVE been good they haven't kept.)

I was over Presti when he traded for PG13.

I have receipts that say otherwise.

[retrobro90]

By the way, Schlecht being adamant about Giddey being better than JDub is weird.

I think he is a mostly nice and well meaning man with sometimes wildly flippant and occasionally extreme homer opinions.

That said, I thought exactly the same thing listening to the most recent pod w/ him and Miky. Wildly defensive toward a youtube commenter out of nowhere.

Also (partially related) I find it irksome how often anyone associated with DTD brings up Mitch McGary like he's either a braindead burnout or a hardened criminal all because he smoked weed while playing in the NBA. Schlect and his crew are capable of having the worldly perspective of a mega church youth group.

[Dadouv47]

Read on Twitter

We are Cody Williams away from being able to start 5 Williams.

[Dadouv47]

Read on Twitter

makes the Bertans trade a little bit better? I mean we obviously wanted to get a great player via trade but that wasn't Presti plan anyway.

[Dadouv47]

I'm not concerned with adding a PF. It doesn't much matter how you are labeled. What matters is what you bring to the floor. My concerns are our dearth of second-level defense (rim/paint protection) and our inability to cope with guys like Valanciunas. There are some imposing individuals in the league against whom we lack a proper foil. And while Holmgren will address these concerns significantly, I'm not comfortable with leaning too heavily on him for such matchups as they will wear him down. He should be eased into this role as he develops.

I’m concerned with this as well. I want as many minutes as realistic for Chet but probably only half of those guarding other starting C.

I still like PJ Washington but I think that ship has sailed.

I would overpay a bit for PJ Washington. I think he fits well in what we are trying to build. Can defend multiple positions, good two way player. Charlotte gonna match though except if we make something totally crazy and stupid.

[retrobro90]

I’m concerned with this as well. I want as many minutes as realistic for Chet but probably only half of those guarding other starting C.

I still like PJ Washington but I think that ship has sailed.

I would overpay a bit for PJ Washington. I think he fits well in what we are trying to build. Can defend multiple positions, good two way player. Charlotte gonna match though except if we make something totally crazy and stupid.

I'm not a cap wizard but would we even be able to pay PJ something crazy and stupid? Saw a tweet saying we currently have ~18mil in spending power and think he'd easily get more than that considering that some folks think Jerami Grant is worth 30m a year

[Dadouv47]

I still like PJ Washington but I think that ship has sailed.

I would overpay a bit for PJ Washington. I think he fits well in what we are trying to build. Can defend multiple positions, good two way player. Charlotte gonna match though except if we make something totally crazy and stupid.

I'm not a cap wizard but would we even be able to pay PJ something crazy and stupid? Saw a tweet saying we currently have ~18mil in spending power and think he'd easily get more than that considering that some folks think Jerami Grant is worth 30m a year

I think PJ will get 20-22 millions/year which is fine if we get rid of JRE/Waters but gonna need a Bertans trade if we want to make an absurd offer (not worth overpaying PJ Washington anyway even if I like him)

I like Grant but the numbers looks absurd. He had an incredible season in Detroit and that's it...never showed he was worth 30+ millions/year

[retrobro90]

I would overpay a bit for PJ Washington. I think he fits well in what we are trying to build. Can defend multiple positions, good two way player. Charlotte gonna match though except if we make something totally crazy and stupid.

I'm not a cap wizard but would we even be able to pay PJ something crazy and stupid? Saw a tweet saying we currently have ~18mil in spending power and think he'd easily get more than that considering that some folks think Jerami Grant is worth 30m a year

I think PJ will get 20-22 millions/year which is fine if we get rid of JRE/Waters but gonna need a Bertans trade if we want to make an absurd offer (not worth overpaying PJ Washington anyway even if I like him)

I like Grant but the numbers looks absurd. He had an incredible season in Detroit and that's it...never showed he was worth 30+ millions/year

Yeah he's a good player but I'd rather spend on vets that aren't looking for their first big payday this offseason

Edit: (to address Grant) I don't think he gives a team that much winning impact ultimately. Put up great #s in portland last year but his defense is severely overrated and he's still a ball stopper once he catches. I'm not saying he sucks or anything; he's obviously very good. But I agree I don't think paying him 30mil is how you build a winner.

[Kizz Fastfists]

Serious question, how do you handle being a cubs fan?

I have no expectations of them trying to win. I've grown to accept their gross incompetence, but at least they fire people to bring other incompetent people instead of letting person repeat their track record of failure for 15 years.

[Kizz Fastfists]

Dallas is an example of making a great move on draft night. Adding the player you needed and wanted while dumping a terrible contract in the process. Dallas was taking Lively at 10, but then Presti showed his ass and saved them money by taking one of the few contracts worse than Dort in the league and saving them on a rookie contract for a player that OKC did not need. I was over Presti when he traded for PG13. He just continues to prove he has no interest in winning. His entire reputation is based on Durant falling in his lap and a few picks he made 15 years ago.

Bertans contract is bad but far from being one of the worst in the NBA since it will have only 5 millions guaranteed in 2024-2025. He might not pick his option so this is likely a 17 millions expiring. His contract is not an issue for us even if #12 + taking on 17 or 22 millions for #10 was obviously an overpay

His contract is only an issue if one has envisioned us doing something with all that cap space.

Or at least something more than moving up 2 spot for a luxury.

You are right that his contract is only a problem if you wanted to win more basketball games. If you have no interest in winning basketball games then there is no problem and you will find all my critiques to be in opposition of your view that winning doesn't matter.

[Kizz Fastfists]

Bertans can still have big value for OKC even as an expiring next summer. Dort was the only high $ guy they could feasibly move in a trade. Now they can easily get to max level matching power with Bertans+Dort if someone becomes available next summer.

Also Kizz since the PG trade? Russ was coming off an MVP season and Presti pulls a rabbit out of a hat trading two guys (one of whom many thought was overpaid on his 80m extension) for a proven all-nba level costar? Who then in turn had an MVP level season of his own before getting moved for maybe the greatest haul of assets ever received in a trade? Sam has his share of mistakes especially in the KD days but I'm confounded on that criticism

OKC should have gone into a rebuild the day KD left. Russ should have been moved for whatever haul could have been gotten. OKC had just acquired a very good player that was coming off a good rookie season in Sabonis and if they had moved Russ and Oladipo for assets to initiate a rebuild they would have been in a good position to add a generational talent in Luka. The same arguments for rebuilding instead of clinging to being a first round exit are sound today as they were in 2017.

The great haul for PG13 so far is SGA, who they theoretically could have picked if they had gone into rebuilding in 2017 either via draft night trade or a bad showing from ping pong balls, Gallinari, who was flipped for a pair of 2nd round picks in 2025, Tre Mann, Jalen Williams and some future picks. Jalen Williams will be a solid #&D SF, but there is nothing to date that OKC couldn't have gotten as good, or better, if they had been rebuilding when they should have instead of clinging to first round exits. The haul for Westbrook at the time might have been the greatest asset haul of all time. When they finally did trade Russ they got a better player and a draft pick haul and that was after Russ was in clear decline.

[Dadouv47]

Bertans can still have big value for OKC even as an expiring next summer. Dort was the only high $ guy they could feasibly move in a trade. Now they can easily get to max level matching power with Bertans+Dort if someone becomes available next summer.

Also Kizz since the PG trade? Russ was coming off an MVP season and Presti pulls a rabbit out of a hat trading two guys (one of whom many thought was overpaid on his 80m extension) for a proven all-nba level costar? Who then in turn had an MVP level season of his own before getting moved for maybe the greatest haul of assets ever received in a trade? Sam has his share of mistakes especially in the KD days but I'm confounded on that criticism

OKC should have gone into a rebuild the day KD left. Russ should have been moved for whatever haul could have been gotten. OKC had just acquired a very good player that was coming off a good rookie season in Sabonis and if they had moved Russ and Oladipo for assets to initiate a rebuild they would have been in a good position to add a generational talent in Luka. The same arguments for rebuilding instead of clinging to being a first round exit are sound today as they were in 2017.

The great haul for PG13 so far is SGA, who they theoretically could have picked if they had gone into rebuilding in 2017 either via draft night trade or a bad showing from ping pong balls, Gallinari, who was flipped for a pair of 2nd round picks in 2025, Tre Mann, Jalen Williams and some future picks. Jalen Williams will be a solid #&D SF, but there is nothing to date that OKC couldn't have gotten as good, or better, if they had been rebuilding when they should have instead of clinging to first round exits. The haul for Westbrook at the time might have been the greatest asset haul of all time. When they finally did trade Russ they got a better player and a draft pick haul and that was after Russ was in clear decline.

It's always easy to rewrite history but it's not that simple. Superstars back then had not the value they got a few years later and Russ was an expiring. Our team with PG13/Roberson/Melo somehow was scary good but the Roberson injury killed our chances.

We could have started the tank in the 2019-2020 season though instead of going to the playoffs with CP3/Adams & co. That season really helped rehabing players trade value and developing Shai with CP3 but we missed on a high pick.

[Devilanche]

Bertans contract is bad but far from being one of the worst in the NBA since it will have only 5 millions guaranteed in 2024-2025. He might not pick his option so this is likely a 17 millions expiring. His contract is not an issue for us even if #12 + taking on 17 or 22 millions for #10 was obviously an overpay

His contract is only an issue if one has envisioned us doing something with all that cap space.

Or at least something more than moving up 2 spot for a luxury.

You are right that his contract is only a problem if you wanted to win more basketball games. If you have no interest in winning basketball games then there is no problem and you will find all my critiques to be in opposition of your view that winning doesn't matter.

The trade doesn’t impact our win loss at all . Like I said , unless you believe we were going for an impact free agent .

[Devilanche]

Denver traded back and gave Utah Donovan Mitchell for Trey Lyles. That might be a dynasty killer move in hindsight. They exiled Bones Hyland after they drafted him. Although not the front offices fault, Grant bailed on them.

GS is pretty close to having squandered multiple lottery picks that could have extended their dynasty longer. Jordan Poole helped last year but became a salary dump.

Denver had jokic
GS had curry

They also have a great supporting cast.

Is SGA with the current cast enough ? Patient rebuild seems to suggest Presti might think it is, but I think the whole lot of us believe it’s not.

[Big nick]

We also got jdub in the pg trade through the draft pick.