Oklahoma City Thunder Regular Season Thread: Part IV

[Pillendreher]

Exclusive footage of Billy and Sam.

https://vimeo.com/150444224

This is their song for sure.

Let 'em say we're crazy, what do they know
Put your arms around me baby
Don't ever let go
Let the world around us just fall apart
Baby we can make it if we're heart to heart

And we can build this dream together
Standing strong forever
Nothing's gonna stop us now
And if this world runs out of lovers
We'll still have each other
Nothing's gonna stop us, nothing's gonna stop us

[bondom34]

I don't believe this is some Presti conspiracy. I think Donovan's just bad. Just my 2 cents though.

[Pillendreher]

I don't think it's a consiparcy as in Presti's calling all shots and Donovan is just there for credibility issues, but I don't have a doubt in my mind that this roster and this rotations don't just come from Billy. Presti got Kanter, Waiters, Singler and Foye and all are playing a heavy amount of minutes (about 85 minutes a game, that's almost 40% of all minutes going to those guys!). That suits Presti's MO: Get (as in trade for) projects or wannabe vets and they play, no matter what.
But on the other hand I can't absolve Billy of all criticism. It's up him to use the roster he's given and maximize the team's performance. And that's a thing he just hasn't done. We were 20-4 after Payne started leading the bench, went 4-8 with the No-PG-linuep, won 8 straight with Payne being back and now have gone 2-4 after him being canned yet again. So we're 28-4 with Payne getting consistent minutes, 6-12 without him since the end of December. That's more than half the season and therefore a large enough sample size.

Maybe he can't let go of guys because of his College background, you know, working with young players, developing them. And that's why it's so dangerous for guys like Foye or Kanter or Waiters to have a good game once in a while: It gives Billy the feeling he was right all along.

I'm certain we're gonna see a Thabo/Caron moment somewhere in the first or second round: A panic move by Donovan, like benching Waiters and Foye or something like that. You can't keep playing terrible players and hope to get away with it in the Playoffs.

[bondom34]

Kanter's playing time is completely defensible, I don't really see much wrong there. The only guy at this point who's in need of a huge elimination from the rotation is Singler. Dion should be playing less but at least can do a small number of things at an OK level. I just can't see Presti telling BD he's gotta play Singler this much, we've seen guys benched when a good replacement was there w/ Brooks. Perk for Adams being the biggest, but Singler makes no sense. To add, Morrow was signed by the same GM, so why wouldn't Presti force his hand to play Morrow who's never in? It doesn't make sense, he signed both guys, who plays is on the coach.

[Bergmaniac]

I don't think it's a consiparcy as in Presti's calling all shots and Donovan is just there for credibility issues, but I don't have a doubt in my mind that this roster and this rotations don't just come from Billy. Presti got Kanter, Waiters, Singler and Foye and all are playing a heavy amount of minutes (about 85 minutes a game, that's almost 40% of all minutes going to those guys!).

Presti is the guy who has signed all the players on the roster. I don't think it is any logical for him to push for the guys he traded for to play at the expense of the ones he drafted.

[Pillendreher]

Kanter's playing time is completely defensible, I don't really see much wrong there.

20 mpg is OK, but that contract is still terrible in my opinion. His trade value is not nearly as high as some think it is.

The only guy at this point who's in need of a huge elimination from the rotation is Singler. Dion should be playing less but at least can do a small number of things at an OK level.

Singler, Waiters and Foye are getting way too much minutes and esp. Waiters will see them rise in the Playoffs. And it sure as hell doesn't help that Singler, who's a glue guy foremost, doing the little things, is part of that travesty of a bench lineup. If you have a functioning bench and put him in there as a hustler on the wing, he'll have a nice impact, but not like this.
And Dion shouldn't get any minutes at all. His 3pt shooting has been decent, but that's it. And Foye is a little bit better than Dion, but shouldn't see minutes on a contender either.

I just can't see Presti telling BD he's gotta play Singler this much, we've seen guys benched when a good replacement was there w/ Brooks. Perk for Adams being the biggest, but Singler makes no sense.

The rotatios for OKC were always questionable to a certain extent. Brooks stuck with his Starting 5 no matter what and it may very well have cost us the title in 2012.
In 2013, all lineups worked really well, but 2014 was the same BS all over again with Reggie starting, Thabo and Butler having to be benched.
This has always been a problem for OKC, although I think Donovan is even worse at this whole rotations stuff. I don't think Brooks would have been this stubborn and bad at rotations. I mean I'm at the point where I think 'Of course they have every chance in the world in the playoffs, but there's no way Donovan is not gonna **** it up'. He's been that bad. Since there's no rational basketball expectation behind this bs, I have to think it's something else. Presti is surely a part of it (and be it only as a part of Thunder-culture, you know setting the tone), some crazy theories about stuff that doesn't show up on the court, whatever.

To add, Morrow was signed by the same GM, so why wouldn't Presti force his hand to play Morrow who's never in? It doesn't make sense, he signed both guys, who plays is on the coach.

Sure, that's a flaw in my theory, but only partial I think. Presti seems to consider himself very clever and he just loves those wannabe talented guys that he can pick up for a pick or something like that. I think that's why Kanter and Waiters play and Morrow doesn't: Whereas Morrow is a proven NBA vet with his strenghts and weaknesses, Kanter and Waiters are still young and you can still say things like 'They will get better' about them.
If you turn a young guy around, you got yourself a steal. If a proven roleplayer performs, it's expected.

[bondom34]

Kanter's playing time is completely defensible, I don't really see much wrong there.

20 mpg is OK, but that contract is still terrible in my opinion. His trade value is not nearly as high as some think it is.

The only guy at this point who's in need of a huge elimination from the rotation is Singler. Dion should be playing less but at least can do a small number of things at an OK level.

Singler, Waiters and Foye are getting way too much minutes and esp. Waiters will see them rise in the Playoffs. And it sure as hell doesn't help that Singler, who's a glue guy foremost, doing the little things, is part of that travesty of a bench lineup. If you have a functioning bench and put him in there as a hustler on the wing, he'll have a nice impact, but not like this.
And Dion shouldn't get any minutes at all. His 3pt shooting has been decent, but that's it. And Foye is a little bit better than Dion, but shouldn't see minutes on a contender either.

I just can't see Presti telling BD he's gotta play Singler this much, we've seen guys benched when a good replacement was there w/ Brooks. Perk for Adams being the biggest, but Singler makes no sense.

The rotatios for OKC were always questionable to a certain extent. Brooks stuck with his Starting 5 no matter what and it may very well have cost us the title in 2012.
In 2013, all lineups worked really well, but 2014 was the same BS all over again with Reggie starting, Thabo and Butler having to be benched.
This has always been a problem for OKC, although I think Donovan is even worse at this whole rotations stuff. I don't think Brooks would have been this stubborn and bad at rotations. I mean I'm at the point where I think 'Of course they have every chance in the world in the playoffs, but there's no way Donovan is not gonna **** it up'. He's been that bad. Since there's no rational basketball expectation behind this bs, I have to think it's something else. Presti is surely a part of it (and be it only as a part of Thunder-culture, you know setting the tone), some crazy theories about stuff that doesn't show up on the court, whatever.

To add, Morrow was signed by the same GM, so why wouldn't Presti force his hand to play Morrow who's never in? It doesn't make sense, he signed both guys, who plays is on the coach.

Sure, that's a flaw in my theory, but only partial I think. Presti seems to consider himself very clever and he just loves those wannabe talented guys that he can pick up for a pick or something like that. I think that's why Kanter and Waiters play and Morrow doesn't: Whereas Morrow is a proven NBA vet with his strenghts and weaknesses, Kanter and Waiters are still young and you can still say things like 'They will get better' about them.
If you turn a young guy around, you got yourself a steal. If a proven roleplayer performs, it's expected.

I'd strongly disagree on Kanter.

The rotations are questionable for every team. Spurs fans complain on Pop. But they've never been THIS bad. Presti's signed or traded for everyone on the roster, there's no reason for an agenda. I'd bet anything this isn't him. This sounds like some weird truther conspiracy stuff.

The Morrow theory doesn't make sense. Singler's a vet too. And again why wouldn't they play the guys he actually drafted who are clearly improving.

There's just so many holes in this theory it doesn't add up.

[Mick75]

Yeah, I think Pillendreher is getting a little bit carried away here. Billy just consistently makes really bad decisions. It´s that simple and also that frustating!

I´m still exicted for the playoffs even though I´m pretty sure that I will sit in front of my tv, screaming like a maniac after some stupid moves by either our team or coach! Heart attack incoming...

[Pillendreher]

What it all comes down to is this: Why is Donovan doing the things the does? Why is Payne not playing, despite the team being on pace for 71 wins (9,97 NetRtG on average) with Payne getting consistent minutes. Why is Morrow not playing? Why is McGary completely out of the rotation? Why is he playing lineups that have never worked, like at all?

Is there any basketball reason for this? Can a coach really be that bad and stupid? Was he like this as a College coach? If there really isn't a basketball reason for all this bs, it's either him being just a terrible coach, some off-the-court stuff that has way too much influence on his decisions or it's something that's coming from the top. And I don't think Presti is dictating minutes, but I'm pretty sure he has a say as far as the general structure of this team goes and the way that translates onto the court. If he has singed Singler to a 5 year contract, he'd better play (in Presti's opinion).

[bondom34]

What it all comes down to is this: Why is Donovan doing the things the does? Why is Payne not playing, despite the team being on pace for 71 wins (9,97 NetRtG on average) with Payne getting consistent minutes. Why is Morrow not playing? Why is McGary completely out of the rotation? Why is he playing lineups that have never worked, like at all?

Is there any basketball reason for this? Can a coach really be that bad and stupid? Was he like this as a College coach? If there really isn't a basketball reason for all this bs, it's either him being just a terrible coach, some off-the-court stuff that has way too much influence on his decisions or it's something that's coming from the top. And I don't think Presti is dictating minutes, but I'm pretty sure he has a say as far as the general structure of this team goes and the way that translates onto the court. If he has singed Singler to a 5 year contract, he'd better play (in Presti's opinion).

Because he's a bad coach? Why does it have to be Presti when every coach makes bad choices, his are just worse. You've established Brooks was much better at this, so why can't Donovan just be worse? There's no way he's going to BD and telling him to play bad lineups, his job is to keep the team playing well.

[TheBeardedMan]

Shut the hell up! All y'all are doing are complaining! Get over it.. If you're not not gonna support this team the way it is then jump on some other team's bandwagon!
We don't need scrubs like you here.

[bondom34]

Shut the hell up! All y'all are doing are complaining! Get over it.. If you're not not gonna support this team the way it is then jump on some other team's bandwagon!
We don't need scrubs like you here.

If you think this team is perfect, I don't know what to say.

He supports the team, just not the lunacy going on with the lineups going out there.

[Mick75]

Shut the hell up! All y'all are doing are complaining! Get over it.. If you're not not gonna support this team the way it is then jump on some other team's bandwagon!
We don't need scrubs like you here.

In my opinion it shows more love and support for the team, if you critize them for not playing up to their full potential. As long as the criticism is justified which it is...

[bondom34]

Horne's chat:

Sam Presti is not telling Donovan who to play and who not to play.

If he was, you'd think he'd push to play Kanter more since he's paying him around $17 million a year.

[Pillendreher]

Well, in the end it doesn't really matter. All we can do is to hope that Donovan comes to his senses.

[bondom34]

Well, in the end it doesn't really matter. All we can do is to hope that Donovan comes to his senses.

I think he has, his senses are just dumb.

[Pillendreher]

Mhh, I don't know. I sure as hell hope he will see that his way is the bad one. The way he's talking about the bench tho tells me he just doesn't know how to really evaluate skill and performance. He likes Singler's length. Lol, what? I mean, come on. He has found a way to use Kanter in the best way possible, but he can't find that way for our rotation 1-4? That's ridiculous.

[bondom34]

Mhh, I don't know. I sure as hell hope he will see that his way is the bad one. The way he's talking about the bench tho tells me he just doesn't know how to really evaluate skill and performance. He likes Singler's length. Lol, what? I mean, come on. He has found a way to use Kanter in the best way possible, but he can't find that way for our rotation 1-4? That's ridiculous.

I just assume when he says length, he's talking about his hair.

[KD35Brah]

This team is garbage.

1st Quarter isn't even done yet and KD has 2 dumb rookie fouls and Russ picks up a tech for a dumb frustration foul after a dumb shot.

[KD35Brah]

Kobe already hitting bull shots