OKC Thunder 2023-24 Regular Season Discussion

[Dadouv47]

SGA is struggling a bit lately...hope he can be 100% for the POs

[Dadouv47]

SGA is struggling a bit lately...hope he can be 100% for the POs

[Dadouv47]

I think I would still pick Chet because of his rare talent but it wouldn't be that crazy to have JDub at #1 in a 2022 redraft.

[Clav]

I think I would still pick Chet because of his rare talent but it wouldn't be that crazy to have JDub at #1 in a 2022 redraft.

I think Williams has a great case for a top 3 in a re draft for sure. Keep climbing... if he reaches all nba before Paolo It's reasonable that he should have gone number 1.

I'm just so thankful we have him on our team

[ValvPiti]

I think I would still pick Chet because of his rare talent but it wouldn't be that crazy to have JDub at #1 in a 2022 redraft.

I have said mulitple times on the GB that I think Jalen W straight up is the best player in the draft.

I'd go Jdub, Chet and Paolo in a redraft. All of them have great potential, but I like Jalen Williams allround game the most and I have seen a bunch of these teams since I have a couple of players in a dynasty league... Actually, I have all of these three guys.

[Xatticus]

I just don't know how you can keep banging this drum. You are arguing that Zaza/Bogut was the difference between first-round exits and championships for those GS teams? If you are comparing those GS teams to this OKC team, then surely you have to give a massive edge to OKC at the five... no? I don't know how you could overlook the guy that has started every game at the five for us this year and that happens to be a hell of a lot better at basketball than Zaza Pachulia ever was.

Is Chet a better player than Zaza or Bogut? Yes. Does Chet and Jalen Williams combine to do the needed things to win a championship that GS's PF/C combos did? No and it isn't even close. We'll even go so far as to say SGA=Curry and Jalen=Klay and Chet=KD who is your Daymond, Bogut, who was a really good player when healthy, Iguodala, etc.? OKC doesn't have them, although you could argue Joe and Cason as having the potential to get there eventually, and has made no attempt to add them in the short-term. If you replace Giddey or Dort with a legitimate big man that can solve the issues in the paint the team lifts it's ceiling drastically. Roster construction is not about matching position for position it is about accumulating the needed skills over the lineup. OKC has failed to do this under Presti in almost every season he has been in OKC. The one exception was the year with KMart where Russ got hurt in the first round. That team was amazing and had everything it needed to win a championship. Then Presti dismantled it ending OKC's championship window.

You have to be able to match up with your opponents in the playoffs. This is where OKC will fail miserably as they have the entire tenure of Presti. Perkins, Kanter, Roberson, Morrow, etc. never matched up well in the playoffs and OKC suffered for it. Jalen and Chet being played out of position will destroy OKC in the playoffs against teams that are prepared to win in the playoffs. You can't argue that Presti will magically find his missing big man in the 2024 draft because there is chance he doesn't even get to make a selection. Utah is locked in at #9, and are unlikely to get jumped by two teams to drop to #11, and one bad ping pong ball outcome takes away the Houston pick. Even with the Houston pick how effective has Presti been picking outside the top 10? Is Presti going to actually bring in the players needed after sitting on his hands all off-season and at the deadline. Probably not. He understands that just by making the playoffs it will keep the fan base happy enough to fill the seats and him employed. So there is no reason for him to try to win a championship. He's not in a market with competent sports writers to hold him accountable to the fan base. The media will cheerlead for him and the fans will continue to believe how great he is despite his long history of proven incompetence and squandering opportunities.

You're way off the mark here. You are reinterpreting history to fit your narrative and completely missing out on the origins of 'small ball'. Draymond was the five in their 'small ball' lineups. Bogut and Pachulia were squad players that ate minutes. The novel idea wasn't going small, but rather to put their best players on the floor. Bogut/Pachulia were not among their best players. If they had Holmgren, 'small ball' wouldn't have been a thing because he would've been on the floor.

[Xatticus]

The one big mistake Sam has made, and I don't think he has made many was not getting gafford at the trade dead line. I believe if we had gotten him I believe we would win the chip this year. Barkley said last night there are two gms that are the best of them all and Sam was one of them. And I happen to agree with Chuck on this.

Presti seems to be very attached to the idea of building a team one specific way. That way involves players he drafts and prioritizes. I get the idea that he views large meaninful trades as somewhat of an admission of failure. Perhaps I'm over anyalzying but I don't think I am.

I don't know the man, so I can't speak to it, but I suspect he trusts the evaluations and knows that development is a process. I don't think that making a big trade is an admission of failure so much as it is throwing crap at the wall and hoping something will stick. Locker room dynamics are complex and you don't want to shake things up when it isn't necessary.

There is always going to be THAT guy. Someone is going to be the weak link regardless of how well the team is performing. This is evidenced by the ongoing complaints on this forum for a team that is far exceeding whatever expectations anyone had for where it would be at this point in this rebuild's timeline. This season has been a raging success, but that doesn't really stop people from pointing fingers or trying to pinpoint why the team doesn't win every game it plays.

I could understand the complaints if this team wasn't clearly on an upwards trajectory and still reaping the benefits of internal development. Many of the solutions to our problems will present themselves in time, but the problems aren't that significant regardless. We are at the top of the conference less than a year removed from being one of the biggest surprises in the NBA when we finished 40-42. Our core is not composed of finished products.

[shakes0]

now that was a fun game. The Chet dunk over Hendricks gotta be in the dunks of the year when it's all said and done.

[Clav]

now that was a fun game. The Chet dunk over Hendricks gotta be in the dunks of the year when it's all said and done.

It was superb! Jazz are getting a rep around the league that yes, you can dunk on them even if they contest.

[slick_watts]

There is always going to be THAT guy. Someone is going to be the weak link regardless of how well the team is performing. This is evidenced by the ongoing complaints on this forum for a team that is far exceeding whatever expectations anyone had for where it would be at this point in this rebuild's timeline. This season has been a raging success, but that doesn't really stop people from pointing fingers or trying to pinpoint why the team doesn't win every game it plays.

I could understand the complaints if this team wasn't clearly on an upwards trajectory and still reaping the benefits of internal development. Many of the solutions to our problems will present themselves in time, but the problems aren't that significant regardless. We are at the top of the conference less than a year removed from being one of the biggest surprises in the NBA when we finished 40-42. Our core is not composed of finished products.

the timeline isn't relevant to me. right now this is a 7-8 SRS team, a contender by every definition of the word except roster age and experience. and there's no juggernaut dynasty at the top of the west lording over everyone else. as thunder fans, we should recognize how precious these healthy seasons are, and imo should desire an approach that maximizes the team's potential to cash in on these circumstances. if you think about it, we may have already lost one season of this core due to chet's injury. how many more seasons will we have like this?

i can't speak for anyone else, but all the finger pointing and complaining i might do about the team this season is from that perspective.

[Dadouv47]

I know it won't happen but I wouldn't mind resting Shai for 4-5 games to finish the season. He's doing his job but he's not on the superstar/MVP level he was 2 months ago. I don't really care if we finish first or third, better have him well rested.

[slick_watts]

You're way off the mark here. You are reinterpreting history to fit your narrative and completely missing out on the origins of 'small ball'. Draymond was the five in their 'small ball' lineups. Bogut and Pachulia were squad players that ate minutes. The novel idea wasn't going small, but rather to put their best players on the floor. Bogut/Pachulia were not among their best players. If they had Holmgren, 'small ball' wouldn't have been a thing because he would've been on the floor.

kizz is clueless about this. i already posted the minutes that draymond played center for GSW and it was a lot more than he alluded to.

neutering chet by having him defend perimeter guys seems like a complete and utter waste of his skillset.

[Kizz Fastfists]

You're way off the mark here. You are reinterpreting history to fit your narrative and completely missing out on the origins of 'small ball'. Draymond was the five in their 'small ball' lineups. Bogut and Pachulia were squad players that ate minutes. The novel idea wasn't going small, but rather to put their best players on the floor. Bogut/Pachulia were not among their best players. If they had Holmgren, 'small ball' wouldn't have been a thing because he would've been on the floor.

kizz is clueless about this. i already posted the minutes that draymond played center for GSW and it was a lot more than he alluded to.

neutering chet by having him defend perimeter guys seems like a complete and utter waste of his skillset.

I forgot that Marreese Speights was part of small ball, because centers have to count as small ball for GS to have used it as more than situational matchups allowed. The top four lineups GS used the year they won a championship with "small ball" all had Bogut or Speights on the floor. Throw in Festus Ezeli and you have 18 of their top 20 most used lineups. David Lee was used as the center in one of the other two. The Steph-Klay-Draymond-Barnes-Iggy lineup was used for 102 minutes over the entire season. Let's all credit those 90 seconds per game with why GS won a championship.

Their best point differential lineup had Bogut on the floor and was used more than their small ball lineup. I'll continue to let the facts get in the way of me accepting the propaganda. You keep on believing that GS played most of their games without a legitimate big man on the floor and ignoring what really happened. GS never won a championship during their run with their primary lineups not including a 6'10+ player. The only argument you can make is '21-'22 and you can argue Looney wasn't a legitimate big, at 6'9 and the starting center, and they played small ball that year. I can't really argue against them playing small in '21-'22 and it working. Steph-Poole-Wiggins-Dray-Looney isn't a big lineup. They only had Klay for 32 games that year and the playoffs.

[slick_watts]

Their best point differential lineup had Bogut on the floor and was used more than their small ball lineup. I'll continue to let the facts get in the way of me accepting the propaganda.

i'm referring to when you used bbr's "position estimate" as the basis for one of your nonfactuals. that draymond played only 5% of his minutes at center in 2017. i replied to you with the actual data, and you disappeared (which, you tend to do when i reply to you like this). you did it before when giddey was momentarily posting career highs in three point shooting. etc. etc.

anyway, here's a refresher:



golden state played plenty of small ball.

and the premise of the argument that chet needs another big next to him is still laughable irrespective of what golden state did or didn't do. chet's one of the best shot contesters < 6 feet in the league, he's starting to get his bearing on the defensive boards, and he is a ridiculous mismatch for most centers who have to deal with him.

what the thunder need most of all is a better player than josh giddey with the starters.

[Dadouv47]

We have a big in Chet...we just needed a better back up.

The lack of big is not the reason our starting line up is gonna get destroyed in the POs. Yeah AD or Jokic are some terrible match ups but it's not like there are many bigs available that would do a better job guarding AD. We should have traded for a back up big and a better "scorer" than Hawyard because our bench is pretty bad even if I like Isaiah Joe, Cason and Wiggins.

[getrichordie]

I disagree that we need a better backup big. Our bench isn't bad, but it needs to get bigger and better defensively, especially at the 3 and 4 spots.

[Bremzi]

Golden State played plenty of “small-ball”, but it is true that in the regular season they rarely used Draymond at the 5. Kerr is notorious for trying to have a bunch of tall centers to rotate with for 18-25 mpg. Draymond couldn’t be a full time center because it’s too exhausting for a smaller player like him to do it versus people who are just simply bigger in size all around. The wear and tear would be too massice through an 82 game season + the playoffs.

They did run more of their small ball in the playoffs to be honest.

It’s a similar story with AD and the Lakers. He could play the five but he would get injured during seasons doing so. He fits better as a PF with less of a bruising game. I’m still of the opinion that Chet should be used more in that role that AD and JJJr have as forwards who are being used as a free safety often on defense. Chet has a very good knack for help defense and long wingspan to bother passing lanes. It would just be easier to play him similar or larger minutes if his matchup wouldn’t make him exert as much energy defensively as is the case right now. To go even further - Chet is very similar to KD and KD was also often used sporadingly as a center, but more commonly as a SF/PF (PF in the last few years).

Okc has the wingspans, motor and agility throughout the lineup. They just need 1-2 persons to play starter/backup center positions because currently OKC doesn’t have the “bulk” on any of the big positions.

I’m confident Presti will get a guy like that sooner rather later, it just needs to be addressed.

[Old Man Game]

I watched the Raps broadcast. They literally had SGA as their "Player of the game."

[ThunderBolt]

Nice to see Kenrich play better. The bench has been struggling.

[Dadouv47]

Hope to see our team rest Shai/JDub/Chet a bit once we lock a top 3 seed. It might take a little since the schedule is pretty hard but I don't think it's worth giving it all for seeding in the top 3. Shai is either injured or tired. Chet and JDub looks fine but some rest would be nice too.

I love Cason's development.