OKC Thunder 2023-24 Regular Season Discussion

[Dadouv47]

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JDub trolling or his injury might be serious.

[OKC2008]

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[ThunderBolt]

Chet on Woj's podcast today. Good listen even though Woj isn't a very good interviewer.

[kdthunderup]

Cason's really standing out for me in our young core, even more than Giddey. His game's been super impressive, and I reckon there's something special brewing with him. What's got me is how he's never overplayed his hand this season, but that just makes me think he has a lot in his bag he hasn't had a chance to showcase yet. His shooting and defense are already top-notch for a rookie, and I bet once he get's more comfortable he will unlock more.

Honestly, I wouldn't be shocked if he steps into Dort's spot in the starting lineup next season. He's a better fit for spacing reasons.

[Xatticus]

Cason's really standing out for me in our young core, even more than Giddey. His game's been super impressive, and I reckon there's something special brewing with him. What's got me is how he's never overplayed his hand this season, but that just makes me think he has a lot in his bag he hasn't had a chance to showcase yet. His shooting and defense are already top-notch for a rookie, and I bet once he get's more comfortable he will unlock more.

Honestly, I wouldn't be shocked if he steps into Dort's spot in the starting lineup next season. He's a better fit for spacing reasons.

There's definitely more to him than his stat line would suggest. He hits the occasional step back with the shot clock running down or puts up a robust box score line every so often and yet his efficiency never seems to wane over a prolonged period.

He is why I'm not really concerned with what happens with Joe, though I do believe that clearing the decks for next year is an indication that Presti is going to spend what he needs to to keep him around.

I don't believe that Wallace would be a suitable replacement for Dort though due to Dort's defensive versatility. Dort guards way up sometimes to allow Chet to maximize his value as a help defender. Wallace is tough, but I doubt he has the ability to cover the same range of guys that Dort does.

[OKC2008]

I read usual complaints after the draft because according to someone Lively was clearly a better player than Cason Wallace…

I mean, Cason is by far a better player and a better fit for OKC.. is impact as a rookie is wonderful

[Kizz Fastfists]

I read usual complaints after the draft because according to someone Lively was clearly a better player than Cason Wallace…

I mean, Cason is by far a better player and a better fit for OKC.. is impact as a rookie is wonderful

Cason is better at shooting the three, but they had other 3pt shooters so he was superfluous. Lively would have been the more impactful player and would have given OKC something they are desperately in need of and will get them eliminated in the first round of the playoffs due to the lack of it. OKC is in desperate need of toughness in the paint and rebounding. Dallas, LAL and Sacramento would all send OKC home in the first round. OKC is trying to play a style that has long proven to be successful in the regular season and come up short in the playoffs. They might as well bring in Mike D'Antoni to coach since they are trying to mimic his regular season winning and playoff losing style.

Don't bring up GS. They never won a championship playing as small as OKC is and without a legitimate starting center that could rebound and defend. OKC doesn't have a Bogut or even a Zaza and Zaza was playing next to another 7 footer in KD who you might recall is a pretty good rebounder and Draymond was there who is also a good rebounder. OKC has, ummmm, Giddey and Chet that are solid rebounders and one of them keeps getting less playing time due to their lack of other abilities like defense and shooting. Nothing that has happened this season changes the off-season reality that OKC is too small and needed a legitimate center. Even if you want to argue Chet is the center they still needed a PF that could give them the rebounding they needed and drop Jalen to SF and move Giddey or Dort to the bench.

[shakes0]

I boycotted the game last night due to the ridiculous 9pm start time. Glad to see they won.

[ThunderBolt]

I boycotted the game last night due to the ridiculous 9pm start time. Glad to see they won.

We always get slotted like we are a west coast team.

[Xatticus]

I read usual complaints after the draft because according to someone Lively was clearly a better player than Cason Wallace…

I mean, Cason is by far a better player and a better fit for OKC.. is impact as a rookie is wonderful

Cason is better at shooting the three, but they had other 3pt shooters so he was superfluous. Lively would have been the more impactful player and would have given OKC something they are desperately in need of and will get them eliminated in the first round of the playoffs due to the lack of it. OKC is in desperate need of toughness in the paint and rebounding. Dallas, LAL and Sacramento would all send OKC home in the first round. OKC is trying to play a style that has long proven to be successful in the regular season and come up short in the playoffs. They might as well bring in Mike D'Antoni to coach since they are trying to mimic his regular season winning and playoff losing style.

Don't bring up GS. They never won a championship playing as small as OKC is and without a legitimate starting center that could rebound and defend. OKC doesn't have a Bogut or even a Zaza and Zaza was playing next to another 7 footer in KD who you might recall is a pretty good rebounder and Draymond was there who is also a good rebounder. OKC has, ummmm, Giddey and Chet that are solid rebounders and one of them keeps getting less playing time due to their lack of other abilities like defense and shooting. Nothing that has happened this season changes the off-season reality that OKC is too small and needed a legitimate center. Even if you want to argue Chet is the center they still needed a PF that could give them the rebounding they needed and drop Jalen to SF and move Giddey or Dort to the bench.

I just don't know how you can keep banging this drum. You are arguing that Zaza/Bogut was the difference between first-round exits and championships for those GS teams? If you are comparing those GS teams to this OKC team, then surely you have to give a massive edge to OKC at the five... no? I don't know how you could overlook the guy that has started every game at the five for us this year and that happens to be a hell of a lot better at basketball than Zaza Pachulia ever was.

[Kizz Fastfists]

I just don't know how you can keep banging this drum. You are arguing that Zaza/Bogut was the difference between first-round exits and championships for those GS teams? If you are comparing those GS teams to this OKC team, then surely you have to give a massive edge to OKC at the five... no? I don't know how you could overlook the guy that has started every game at the five for us this year and that happens to be a hell of a lot better at basketball than Zaza Pachulia ever was.

Is Chet a better player than Zaza or Bogut? Yes. Does Chet and Jalen Williams combine to do the needed things to win a championship that GS's PF/C combos did? No and it isn't even close. We'll even go so far as to say SGA=Curry and Jalen=Klay and Chet=KD who is your Daymond, Bogut, who was a really good player when healthy, Iguodala, etc.? OKC doesn't have them, although you could argue Joe and Cason as having the potential to get there eventually, and has made no attempt to add them in the short-term. If you replace Giddey or Dort with a legitimate big man that can solve the issues in the paint the team lifts it's ceiling drastically. Roster construction is not about matching position for position it is about accumulating the needed skills over the lineup. OKC has failed to do this under Presti in almost every season he has been in OKC. The one exception was the year with KMart where Russ got hurt in the first round. That team was amazing and had everything it needed to win a championship. Then Presti dismantled it ending OKC's championship window.

You have to be able to match up with your opponents in the playoffs. This is where OKC will fail miserably as they have the entire tenure of Presti. Perkins, Kanter, Roberson, Morrow, etc. never matched up well in the playoffs and OKC suffered for it. Jalen and Chet being played out of position will destroy OKC in the playoffs against teams that are prepared to win in the playoffs. You can't argue that Presti will magically find his missing big man in the 2024 draft because there is chance he doesn't even get to make a selection. Utah is locked in at #9, and are unlikely to get jumped by two teams to drop to #11, and one bad ping pong ball outcome takes away the Houston pick. Even with the Houston pick how effective has Presti been picking outside the top 10? Is Presti going to actually bring in the players needed after sitting on his hands all off-season and at the deadline. Probably not. He understands that just by making the playoffs it will keep the fan base happy enough to fill the seats and him employed. So there is no reason for him to try to win a championship. He's not in a market with competent sports writers to hold him accountable to the fan base. The media will cheerlead for him and the fans will continue to believe how great he is despite his long history of proven incompetence and squandering opportunities.

[Dadouv47]

We are one of the best teams in the NBA. Coaching staff is great, Presti made more good picks than bad ones. Yeah, he made mistakes and I'm pissed we didn't improve our bench and added a good big but saying he's incompetent because of that is crazy. Drafting Cason over Lively is fine to me. Chet is our 5. I understand the concern about Chet/JDub line up in some match ups though so not adding a player via trade was certainly a mistake.

[Dadouv47]

Read on Twitter

Playing with Shai helps but gotta have some Chip Engelland effect.

[Dadouv47]

Watch on YouTube

It's a bit slow but I liked it. Vecenie is SUPER high on JDub (no clue if too high but JDub is so impressive that he deserves it)

[Big nick]

The one big mistake Sam has made, and I don't think he has made many was not getting gafford at the trade dead line. I believe if we had gotten him I believe we would win the chip this year. Barkley said last night there are two gms that are the best of them all and Sam was one of them. And I happen to agree with Chuck on this.

[ThunderBolt]

The one big mistake Sam has made, and I don't think he has made many was not getting gafford at the trade dead line. I believe if we had gotten him I believe we would win the chip this year. Barkley said last night there are two gms that are the best of them all and Sam was one of them. And I happen to agree with Chuck on this.

Presti seems to be very attached to the idea of building a team one specific way. That way involves players he drafts and prioritizes. I get the idea that he views large meaninful trades as somewhat of an admission of failure. Perhaps I'm over anyalzying but I don't think I am.

[Dadouv47]

The one big mistake Sam has made, and I don't think he has made many was not getting gafford at the trade dead line. I believe if we had gotten him I believe we would win the chip this year. Barkley said last night there are two gms that are the best of them all and Sam was one of them. And I happen to agree with Chuck on this.

Presti seems to be very attached to the idea of building a team one specific way. That way involves players he drafts and prioritizes. I get the idea that he views large meaninful trades as somewhat of an admission of failure. Perhaps I'm over anyalzying but I don't think I am.

I kind of think the same but in my opinion Presti thinks that making some changes (like adding a traditional big or PF) would cause more harm than good on how our team play which is understandable but doesn't take into account some very specific situations like facing a guy like AD or Jokic. Presti is probably too extreme in his new way of building a winning team but he still get some credit because it certainy works to some extent. I hope we can have competitive POs and that it will help him to make the right moves next offseason.

[Kizz Fastfists]

The one big mistake Sam has made, and I don't think he has made many was not getting gafford at the trade dead line. I believe if we had gotten him I believe we would win the chip this year. Barkley said last night there are two gms that are the best of them all and Sam was one of them. And I happen to agree with Chuck on this.

That is an interesting take. Every GM that has won a championship is worse than the one that has been on the job for 15+ years and has none. I guess you and Chuck "there are no black people in Oklahoma" Barkley don't judge people based on results or embrace reality. Sorry, but here in reality a man is a man and cannot get pregnant. A GM on the job for 15+ years with a .500 playoff record and no championships is not in any conversation for being better than those with a championship.

[Clav]

You can't treat a GM role as a "GM didn't get a champ so he's worse than a GM with a championship." There's a lot more that goes into it than the record of the team. Some GMs, for example, move into a team and subsequently win despite not being a major part of that team-building process. Others, like Pat Riley, have been in the game a long time and have results to back it up.

So yeah, to place Presti over established GM groups like Riley's in Miami and what Meyers did with GSW, Buford accomplished in San Antonio, would be a bad take.

Here's an example; Cleveland won a Championship with GM David Griffin 2015-2019, but that was more or less because LeBron decided to come back to his home state. Another key point about GM groups is that consistency seems to pay dividends.

No one here is taking David Griffin over Presti in a GM draft despite that championship. Look at what Griffin has accomplished in NOLA post-CLE, he hasn't even been to the 2nd round. Is that his fault that Zion isn't getting him wins ? Not really...

However, I'm definitely taking Riley over Presti in a GM draft. And also I'm not defending Presti for some of his choices this year, but Presti isn't ultimately on the hook for 100% of the blame of our '.500 playoff record'. There were definitely some Thunder players contributing to that despite being some of the best players in the NBA.

[The Servant]

I just don't know how you can keep banging this drum. You are arguing that Zaza/Bogut was the difference between first-round exits and championships for those GS teams? If you are comparing those GS teams to this OKC team, then surely you have to give a massive edge to OKC at the five... no? I don't know how you could overlook the guy that has started every game at the five for us this year and that happens to be a hell of a lot better at basketball than Zaza Pachulia ever was.

Is Chet a better player than Zaza or Bogut? Yes. Does Chet and Jalen Williams combine to do the needed things to win a championship that GS's PF/C combos did? No and it isn't even close. We'll even go so far as to say SGA=Curry and Jalen=Klay and Chet=KD who is your Daymond, Bogut, who was a really good player when healthy, Iguodala, etc.? OKC doesn't have them, although you could argue Joe and Cason as having the potential to get there eventually, and has made no attempt to add them in the short-term. If you replace Giddey or Dort with a legitimate big man that can solve the issues in the paint the team lifts it's ceiling drastically. Roster construction is not about matching position for position it is about accumulating the needed skills over the lineup. OKC has failed to do this under Presti in almost every season he has been in OKC. The one exception was the year with KMart where Russ got hurt in the first round. That team was amazing and had everything it needed to win a championship. Then Presti dismantled it ending OKC's championship window.

You have to be able to match up with your opponents in the playoffs. This is where OKC will fail miserably as they have the entire tenure of Presti. Perkins, Kanter, Roberson, Morrow, etc. never matched up well in the playoffs and OKC suffered for it. Jalen and Chet being played out of position will destroy OKC in the playoffs against teams that are prepared to win in the playoffs. You can't argue that Presti will magically find his missing big man in the 2024 draft because there is chance he doesn't even get to make a selection. Utah is locked in at #9, and are unlikely to get jumped by two teams to drop to #11, and one bad ping pong ball outcome takes away the Houston pick. Even with the Houston pick how effective has Presti been picking outside the top 10? Is Presti going to actually bring in the players needed after sitting on his hands all off-season and at the deadline. Probably not. He understands that just by making the playoffs it will keep the fan base happy enough to fill the seats and him employed. So there is no reason for him to try to win a championship. He's not in a market with competent sports writers to hold him accountable to the fan base. The media will cheerlead for him and the fans will continue to believe how great he is despite his long history of proven incompetence and squandering opportunities.

Do you live in OKC? If not, consider just cheering for another sports team because we don't want you to have a heart attack.

OKC went from 40-42, to 46-20 this season so far with their rookie #2 pick. Personally I wanted Lively, but Cason has been great and I dont think OKC wins a championship this year with Lively on the roster. They need rebounding and a back up big for sure, right now it seems like all their players are appreciating in value and I bet if they wanted to ship Giddey, Dort or a FRP or any kind of combination of them next year they can get a big.

I get it though, I want a back up big and the boys to get some exp in the 2nd round as well.