Big nick wrote:The one big mistake Sam has made, and I don't think he has made many was not getting gafford at the trade dead line. I believe if we had gotten him I believe we would win the chip this year. Barkley said last night there are two gms that are the best of them all and Sam was one of them. And I happen to agree with Chuck on this.
Presti seems to be very attached to the idea of building a team one specific way. That way involves players he drafts and prioritizes. I get the idea that he views large meaninful trades as somewhat of an admission of failure. Perhaps I'm over anyalzying but I don't think I am.
I don't know the man, so I can't speak to it, but I suspect he trusts the evaluations and knows that development is a process. I don't think that making a big trade is an admission of failure so much as it is throwing crap at the wall and hoping something will stick. Locker room dynamics are complex and you don't want to shake things up when it isn't necessary.
There is always going to be THAT guy. Someone is going to be the weak link regardless of how well the team is performing. This is evidenced by the ongoing complaints on this forum for a team that is far exceeding whatever expectations anyone had for where it would be at this point in this rebuild's timeline. This season has been a raging success, but that doesn't really stop people from pointing fingers or trying to pinpoint why the team doesn't win every game it plays.
I could understand the complaints if this team wasn't clearly on an upwards trajectory and still reaping the benefits of internal development. Many of the solutions to our problems will present themselves in time, but the problems aren't that significant regardless. We are at the top of the conference less than a year removed from being one of the biggest surprises in the NBA when we finished 40-42. Our core is not composed of finished products.[/quote]
I don't disagree with this but I also think our situation is unique. Our weakness is obvious and resources to acquire a better solution would not be exhausted to do so.
We're young and we're playing well. I don't think MOST fans are unahppy with the team but we know that the contention window has opened earlier than expected. These windows don't last forever. If these guys stay together and healthy, the future is bright. But can we really expect our keys guys to be this healthy every year? A ruptured achillies or patellar tendon could happen any given night. That would mean at least a year before the team is back to normal if the player were fortunate enough to make a full recovery.
Patience isn't always rewarded with the desired result. Patience can reward you or bite you. Giddey will likely get better but that archtype really the piece we need to maximize the starters? The same can and should be asked of every player on the team. This isn't suggesting we blow all of our assets to try to build an overnight superteam. But is Gordon Hayward really the best we could have done? If some of these younger guys get better in a few years but Shai is tired of waiting, then what? I don't want Presti to make the all in trade like the made with George and Melo just to hold together a playoff team that lost it's best player.
I'm not against any one move we did or didn't make. I think larger more impactful moves are better made in the offseason. Regardless of what Kizz says, I think this team rightfully exceeded Presti's expectations. I'm verry happy with the team. I like the core more than I ever liked Durant, Westbrook and Harden. I just don't want to waste it.
bisme37 wrote:If there were magnets in basketballs so strong they changed the path of the ball as it flew through the air, wouldn't the ball then stick magnetically to the rim when it got there?
quote="Xatticus"][quote="ThunderBolt"][quote="Big nick"]The one big mistake Sam has made, and I don't think he has made many was not getting gafford at the trade dead line. I believe if we had gotten him I believe we would win the chip this year. Barkley said last night there are two gms that are the best of them all and Sam was one of them. And I happen to agree with Chuck on this.[/quote] Presti seems to be very attached to the idea of building a team one specific way. That way involves players he drafts and prioritizes. I get the idea that he views large meaninful trades as somewhat of an admission of failure. Perhaps I'm over anyalzying but I don't think I am.[/quote]
I don't know the man, so I can't speak to it, but I suspect he trusts the evaluations and knows that development is a process. I don't think that making a big trade is an admission of failure so much as it is throwing crap at the wall and hoping something will stick. Locker room dynamics are complex and you don't want to shake things up when it isn't necessary.
There is always going to be THAT guy. Someone is going to be the weak link regardless of how well the team is performing. This is evidenced by the ongoing complaints on this forum for a team that is far exceeding whatever expectations anyone had for where it would be at this point in this rebuild's timeline. This season has been a raging success, but that doesn't really stop people from pointing fingers or trying to pinpoint why the team doesn't win every game it plays.
I could understand the complaints if this team wasn't clearly on an upwards trajectory and still reaping the benefits of internal development. Many of the solutions to our problems will present themselves in time, but the problems aren't that significant regardless. We are at the top of the conference less than a year removed from being one of the biggest surprises in the NBA when we finished 40-42. Our core is not composed of finished products.[/quote]
I don't disagree with this but I also think our situation is unique. Our weakness is obvious and resources to acquire a better solution would not be exhausted to do so.
We're young and we're playing well. I don't think MOST fans are unahppy with the team but we know that the contention window has opened earlier than expected. These windows don't last forever. If these guys stay together and healthy, the future is bright. But can we really expect our keys guys to be this healthy every year? A ruptured achillies or patellar tendon could happen any given night. That would mean at least a year before the team is back to normal if the player were fortunate enough to make a full recovery.
Patience isn't always rewarded with the desired result. Patience can reward you or bite you. Giddey will likely get better but that archtype really the piece we need to maximize the starters? The same can and should be asked of every player on the team. This isn't suggesting we blow all of our assets to try to build an overnight superteam. But is Gordon Hayward really the best we could have done? If some of these younger guys get better in a few years but Shai is tired of waiting, then what? I don't want Presti to make the all in trade like the made with George and Melo just to hold together a playoff team that lost it's best player.
I'm not against any one move we did or didn't make. I think larger more impactful moves are better made in the offseason. Regardless of what Kizz says, I think this team rightfully exceeded Presti's expectations. I'm verry happy with the team. I like the core more than I ever liked Durant, Westbrook and Harden. I just don't want to waste it.[/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote]
Yeah, this team is awesome. We look like bad fans complaining with such a nice team. I don't think a team is in a better position outside of Denver/Boston. We have a superstar, two likely future all stars with very high ceilings and some pretty good role players. I also like the way we play and it's pretty enjoyable to watch.
...I also don't want to waste our talent and Shai's prime/contract. Hope Presti makes the right move this offseason and we get some luck with injuries. Hayward's trade was stupid from the start, a pipe dream. Presti makes great offseason moves but I don't recall the last good inseason trade he made.
Dadouv47 wrote:Hayward's trade was stupid from the start, a pipe dream. Presti makes great offseason moves but I don't recall the last good inseason trade he made.
I would wait to render a verdict on the Hayward trade. Could play out in a very beneficial way for us in the summer/next season. I could totally see Presti re-sign Hayward to a big one-year (effectively) deal to provide all of a veteran roleplayer for next season, added depth/size to the 3/4 spot, and just to be a trade ballast to facilitate a trade down the road. In fact, I'm 99.9% sure that's the plan.
The only thing I disagree with about the trade is how OKC valued Tre Mann. Could've been a real big sweetener in the future, but maybe Presti wanted to do right by him and not make him wait.
Dadouv47 wrote:Hayward's trade was stupid from the start, a pipe dream. Presti makes great offseason moves but I don't recall the last good inseason trade he made.
I would wait to render a verdict on the Hayward trade. Could play out in a very beneficial way for us in the summer/next season. I could totally see Presti re-sign Hayward to a big one-year (effectively) deal to provide all of a veteran roleplayer for next season, added depth/size to the 3/4 spot, and just to be a trade ballast to facilitate a trade down the road. In fact, I'm 99.9% sure that's the plan.
The only thing I disagree with about the trade is how OKC valued Tre Mann. Could've been a real big sweetener in the future, but maybe Presti wanted to do right by him and not make him wait.
I don't think Hayward has much left in the tank to be a valuable piece even next season. I was already low on him before the trade so I'm biased but I just don't see how he improves our team.
the hayward trade wasn't made to improve the team this year it was made to clear cap space next season.
if sam presti re-signs gordon hayward he has lost his mind. hayward doesn't even look like he enjoys basketball anymore. if you watch him on the paul george podcast earlier in the year, he didn't care if he retired after the season. stay away.
I know everyone is going crazy about rebounding, but let's be honest OKC has punted the rebound category this year as they shape the roster. They went for length/switchability, decision making, shooting, and driving. They give up close to the least fast break points and turn people over the most and are 6th in fastbreak points.
I wish they'd just trade for Andre Drummond so I could quit hearing all the crying about their development season with their rookie/sophomore core about win now. Everyone thinks they should have a completed roster with zero weaknesses going for a ship in Chet's rookie and Williams sophomore season. If they are in the bottom 10 teams for rebounding next season before the yoffs, then screech away please. Its a young roster that just needs a back up big but you'd think the sky is falling!
The Servant wrote:I wish they'd just trade for Andre Drummond so I could quit hearing all the crying about their development season with their rookie/sophomore core about win now. Everyone thinks they should have a completed roster with zero weaknesses going for a ship in Chet's rookie and Williams sophomore season. If they are in the bottom 10 teams for rebounding next season before the yoffs, then screech away please. Its a young roster that just needs a back up big but you'd think the sky is falling!
They don't just need a backup big. They need a starter that fits better than Giddey. That would ideally be a PF and there were plenty available that fit the team that were traded cheap around the deadline. Just adding Olynyk would have been a significant boost to the team. Giddey's most useful skill in the starting lineup is his rebounding. His ball handling isn't needed and a 3&D combo forward would have greatly improved the starting lineup. Presti has more picks than he should use going forward as OKC shouldn't be looking to add 2-3 rookies a year over the next 3-4 years. Holding those at this point is ignoring what the team is today.
I'm not saying he should have paid whatever price it would have cost for Lauri, although that would have been ideal, someone like Carter Jr for Giddey and a pair of FRPs would have been a significant upgrade. Then you have guys like Tari Eason that would fit the team like a glove. Presti's trade deadline moves were very lacking by any standard for a team that is on top of the conference with an obvious hole that will be exploited by almost any potential matchup in the playoffs.
"The secret to success is to offend the greatest number of people." -George Bernard Shaw
The Servant wrote:I know everyone is going crazy about rebounding, but let's be honest OKC has punted the rebound category this year as they shape the roster.
thunder have 77.9% defensive rebounding percentage since the all-star break, which would be 3rd in the nba over the entire season.
slick_watts wrote:the hayward trade wasn't made to improve the team this year it was made to clear cap space next season.
if sam presti re-signs gordon hayward he has lost his mind. hayward doesn't even look like he enjoys basketball anymore. if you watch him on the paul george podcast earlier in the year, he didn't care if he retired after the season. stay away.
I agree that the trade cleared space for next season, but if Presti wanted space next season, why sign MIcic? Why not just trade Mann into space? You are telling me he signed Micic and used Mann to clear $5M in gtd. money that was due to Bertans? I'm sincerely trying to understand. Also, why did Presti re-work the Bertans deal in January?
getrichordie wrote:I agree that the trade cleared space for next season, but if Presti wanted space next season, why sign MIcic?
because he's good.
getrichordie wrote:Why not just trade Mann into space?
who would take mann into space? he stinks. we would have had to send compensation for that.
getrichordie wrote:You are telling me he signed Micic and used Mann to clear $5M in gtd. money that was due to Bertans?
mark daigneault didn't like micic much, tre mann wasn't playing and never would, and neither was bertans, so clearing their salaries next season made sense.
getrichordie wrote:Also, why did Presti re-work the Bertans deal in January?
bertans wasn't going to play 75% of the games and he got a free 250k out of it. one of sam presti's many acts of goodwill.
I hate Mark Daignault rorations. Please just cut the rotation, Im tired of watching 12 different players and especially tired of the scrub Hayward. Joe, Wallace, Wiggins, Heinrich and Jaylin.
ValvPiti wrote:I hate Mark Daignault rorations. Please just cut the rotation, Im tired of watching 12 different players and especially tired of the scrub Hayward. Joe, Wallace, Wiggins, Heinrich and Jaylin.
That's our entire bench lol. I agree that our bench isn't good enough but I like Joe and Cason Wallace. Wiggins is good but as impactful lately. Hayward is terrible, kenrich too this season and Jaylin is a huge problem and the main reason why I think most Thunder fans wanted to add a back up big.
RingoKid wrote:The Bucks just laid the playoff welcome mat out for OKC...
Will the result be swept under the carpet ?
We'll see how the rematch goes in three weeks. Chet was 1-10 from the field and that is unlikely to repeat. At this point you can call it a bad game. I don't like OKC's chances in the playoffs and unless they get a favorable first round matchup I can see them being done in 5-6 games as a 1 or 2 seed.
The biggest problem OKC has is their picks lose value for the organization every day. There is no reason to be hording the picks at this point. OKC was in a position that adding a significant piece would push them forward and instead OKC still has multiple picks in 2025, 2026 and 2027 and there will not be any justification for adding that many rookies to a team that needs to be upgrading their rotation not finding players to fill the end of the bench. You can argue one or two of those picks has potential to be top 5, but that is far from certain. Wasting a season when OKC had a chance to push for a title is a long pattern with Presti. Being a playoff team is irrelevant if you aren't going to take your shots when you have a chance to win. This core is not guaranteed a championship window just like the KD/Russ/Ibaka core only had one shot. You can say they had two shots, but Russ' injury in the first round against Houston ended that one. I suppose you can argue a 3rd in the last year of KD, but that team was flawed in too many ways which is why Russ and KD couldn't carry them past GS even with a 3-1 lead.
"The secret to success is to offend the greatest number of people." -George Bernard Shaw
There is something wrong with sga he came out early in the first tonight and hasent been playing very good lately. He took a shot a couple of games ago maybe that's it. Just not the same.
Big nick wrote:There is something wrong with sga he came out early in the first tonight and hasent been playing very good lately. He took a shot a couple of games ago maybe that's it. Just not the same.
Kinda worrisome tbh and they're not being cautious with his minutes despite his early exit in the first. That quad injury during the jazz game has him a little hobbled. Tough stretch in the schedule with every game having big consequences so I don't see how they rest him.
Giddey having a crazy shooting month. And he had an incredible finish at the rim this game against the pels. I'm in the camp that he's worth more to us on a reasonable extension than what teams would likely offer this summer (though I do think he'd be a nice fit in Miami)
Big nick wrote:There is something wrong with sga he came out early in the first tonight and hasent been playing very good lately. He took a shot a couple of games ago maybe that's it. Just not the same.
Kinda worrisome tbh and they're not being cautious with his minutes despite his early exit in the first. That quad injury during the jazz game has him a little hobbled. Tough stretch in the schedule with every game having big consequences so I don't see how they rest him.
I don't know if the consequences are that big. I would rather have a well rested Shai for the POs than having home court in a potential second round against the Wolves. We are gonna finish top 3 and I think it's pretty likely Denver finish first with such an easy schedule. I don't know if Shai could get to 100% with rest though so maybe it won't change anything but sitting him would be the best move IMO.
