2015 Australian Open discussion

[Michael Lucky]

So people are aware, RealGM is in the process of closing this board down and just having it be part of the Other Sports board. It may be that Howard sending that message has left people not coming here, and no one made this thread over in the other forum either, so yeah, those interested should make a point of trying to get conversation going over there.

So yeah, Serena wins. I find myself thinking about her GOAT candidacy. I have a long history of scoffing at such things, and I still think I was right to do so, but Serena's now very close to having what I consider to be a legit case.

I've said for a while now that if Serena breaks Graf's major record, she probably becomes my GOAT. That bugs me a little because anytime you make ranking based on one person hitting a target that the other didn't have, you're basically treating the earlier player like they couldn't have possibly done more, when in fact in the case of someone like Graf, the numbers simply ceased to have any meaning. She was way ahead of everyone else, so there's no other landmark to hit.

Serena's now at 19, so she's getting close to that. But there's now something else in play: If Serena remains the dominant player in the world this year, then we're talking about a stretch of 14 seasons where she has that role. She has some middle seasons where she failed to do this of course, and that has everything to do with my GOAT skepticism for her, but bottom line: A run of 14 years where when she was at her best, she was the best in the world.

That's totally unprecedented in the world of tennis. Navratilova, queen of longevity, didn't even maintain Top 2 levels for that long - I believe I counted a 13 year top 2 stretch for her. So yeah, basically, if Serena keeps it up another year, I think she'll have a true GOAT case. I still think she needs to break Graf's record to hammer in her plea, but either way she's knocking on the door.

Serena has also had the advantage of dominating one of the weakest fields ever in women's tennis. It's been deplorable ever since Henin's first retirement.

[Raps in 4]

All we saw in Australia was the norm - Djokovic won his pet slam event, Nadal lost in the QF of his worst slam event.

Speaking of pet slams... I hear someone's is coming up.

And keep the hate coming. Everyone knows hate is a product of fear.

[Doctor MJ]

So people are aware, RealGM is in the process of closing this board down and just having it be part of the Other Sports board. It may be that Howard sending that message has left people not coming here, and no one made this thread over in the other forum either, so yeah, those interested should make a point of trying to get conversation going over there.

So yeah, Serena wins. I find myself thinking about her GOAT candidacy. I have a long history of scoffing at such things, and I still think I was right to do so, but Serena's now very close to having what I consider to be a legit case.

I've said for a while now that if Serena breaks Graf's major record, she probably becomes my GOAT. That bugs me a little because anytime you make ranking based on one person hitting a target that the other didn't have, you're basically treating the earlier player like they couldn't have possibly done more, when in fact in the case of someone like Graf, the numbers simply ceased to have any meaning. She was way ahead of everyone else, so there's no other landmark to hit.

Serena's now at 19, so she's getting close to that. But there's now something else in play: If Serena remains the dominant player in the world this year, then we're talking about a stretch of 14 seasons where she has that role. She has some middle seasons where she failed to do this of course, and that has everything to do with my GOAT skepticism for her, but bottom line: A run of 14 years where when she was at her best, she was the best in the world.

That's totally unprecedented in the world of tennis. Navratilova, queen of longevity, didn't even maintain Top 2 levels for that long - I believe I counted a 13 year top 2 stretch for her. So yeah, basically, if Serena keeps it up another year, I think she'll have a true GOAT case. I still think she needs to break Graf's record to hammer in her plea, but either way she's knocking on the door.

Serena has also had the advantage of dominating one of the weakest fields ever in women's tennis. It's been deplorable ever since Henin's first retirement.

Ha, that's normally my line. I've been on the anti-side of Serena for a very long time, and it remains the case the people argued with were lacking perspective, but there has to be a point where if Serena keeps doing what she's been doing, she gets the nod.

Not saying we're there, but we're not far away.

[Michael Lucky]

So people are aware, RealGM is in the process of closing this board down and just having it be part of the Other Sports board. It may be that Howard sending that message has left people not coming here, and no one made this thread over in the other forum either, so yeah, those interested should make a point of trying to get conversation going over there.

So yeah, Serena wins. I find myself thinking about her GOAT candidacy. I have a long history of scoffing at such things, and I still think I was right to do so, but Serena's now very close to having what I consider to be a legit case.

I've said for a while now that if Serena breaks Graf's major record, she probably becomes my GOAT. That bugs me a little because anytime you make ranking based on one person hitting a target that the other didn't have, you're basically treating the earlier player like they couldn't have possibly done more, when in fact in the case of someone like Graf, the numbers simply ceased to have any meaning. She was way ahead of everyone else, so there's no other landmark to hit.

Serena's now at 19, so she's getting close to that. But there's now something else in play: If Serena remains the dominant player in the world this year, then we're talking about a stretch of 14 seasons where she has that role. She has some middle seasons where she failed to do this of course, and that has everything to do with my GOAT skepticism for her, but bottom line: A run of 14 years where when she was at her best, she was the best in the world.

That's totally unprecedented in the world of tennis. Navratilova, queen of longevity, didn't even maintain Top 2 levels for that long - I believe I counted a 13 year top 2 stretch for her. So yeah, basically, if Serena keeps it up another year, I think she'll have a true GOAT case. I still think she needs to break Graf's record to hammer in her plea, but either way she's knocking on the door.

Serena has also had the advantage of dominating one of the weakest fields ever in women's tennis. It's been deplorable ever since Henin's first retirement.

Ha, that's normally my line. I've been on the anti-side of Serena for a very long time, and it remains the case the people argued with were lacking perspective, but there has to be a point where if Serena keeps doing what she's been doing, she gets the nod.

Not saying we're there, but we're not far away.

Not when you consider she's 40+ overall titles behind Graf and 102 titles behind Navratilova. Don't forget Serena has never played a full schedule, mostly focusing on just slams, especially over the last half of her career. Then again Navratilova should have a category all her to herself considering how long she dominated first the single's game and then the doubles. She has 344 titles overall including 49 GS. At least to me, I can't just look at number of slams and go oh well there is GOAT status. At least on the men's side Federer is way up there in singles title as well. I do consider Serena as fourth best all time with a shot at number 3 but in my personal opinion the gap to the top 2 players in Graf and Navratilova is just too big.