Australian Open 2012 (1/16 to 1/29)

[REDDzone]

I'm heartbroken for Rafa.

[WEFFPIM]

So, I DVR'd the match, added two hours figuring one hour per set, and it missed the entire 5th set. Luckily I caught most of it on ESPN2. Absolutely awesome. Djokovic is so clearly the best going right now.

As MJ said, people who aren't paying attention to tennis because there's no American star are missing out on one unbelievable era.

[EH15]

Suck it Nadal fans.

I just saw the highlights. Is this really the longest GS final of all time? Wasn't Fed/Nadal Wimbledon longer than this?

[REDDzone]

Suck it Nadal fans.

If you are a fan of any player but the djoker, this is just a stupid comment, because Nadal owns everyone else.

[EH15]

Suck it Nadal fans.

If you are a fan of any player but the djoker, this is just a stupid comment, because Nadal owns everyone else.

I'm not a fan of either player. But everything Nadal does rubs me the wrong way. Don't get it wrong, I respect the hell out of his game, but he annoys the sh*t out of me. And when you have Nadal fans always proclaiming the win before the match even begins? That's just too much. Every match Nadal loses in GS finals gets sweeter and sweeter.

[REDDzone]

One fan did proclaimed Nadal won before the match btw, no need to exaggerate. That guy is clearly out of touch so who cares what he thinks?

I think I have a good hunch why you are really bitter though, and lets just say I would be too.

[Doctor MJ]

I'm not a fan of either player. But everything Nadal does rubs me the wrong way. Don't get it wrong, I respect the hell out of his game, but he annoys the sh*t out of me. And when you have Nadal fans always proclaiming the win before the match even begins? That's just too much. Every match Nadal loses in GS finals gets sweeter and sweeter.

Well, I think you're being unreasonably aggressive, and it's a shame you're letting things get in the way of enjoying Rafa...

with that said somehow I've become a guy called a Federer homer because I tend to side against Nadal supporters. As a Laker fan known for being critical of Kobe Bryant, I'm one of the least prone posters on this board toward homerism. It is the Rafa fans who are more irrational, my friends.

Ah, but, there is a reason for this. It's not that people who cheer for Spaniards are automatically unreasonable. No, it's that the arguments that you can really make for Rafa to make him look better than Federer are full of a certain type of hole which a certain type of fan falls through. Really it all comes down to wanting to judge players simply based on head-to-head results while ignoring age differences, surface differences, and of course, the fact that a guy winning the head-to-head matchup but getting killed by the other guy in overall results must be tripping up against inferior players a good deal which he really should get blamed for.

[REDDzone]

I just think its depressing that guys can't appreciate both players for their own games.

Wake up, if you like one/discredit the other, you are missing out on or did miss out on appreciating some of the best tennis of all time.

[REDDzone]

Well, I think you're being unreasonably aggressive, and it's a shame you're letting things get in the way of enjoying Rafa...

with that said somehow I've become a guy called a Federer homer because I tend to side against Nadal supporters. As a Laker fan known for being critical of Kobe Bryant, I'm one of the least prone posters on this board toward homerism. It is the Rafa fans who are more irrational, my friends.

Ah, but, there is a reason for this. It's not that people who cheer for Spaniards are automatically unreasonable. No, it's that the arguments that you can really make for Rafa to make him look better than Federer are full of a certain type of hole which a certain type of fan falls through. Really it all comes down to wanting to judge players simply based on head-to-head results while ignoring age differences, surface differences, and of course, the fact that a guy winning the head-to-head matchup but getting killed by the other guy in overall results must be tripping up against inferior players a good deal which he really should get blamed for.

Your issue is that you see Nadal fans being irrational so you go into equally irrational mode defending Federer. Like the time you ranted for 3 pages that I was characterizing Federer as a "horrible perso"n because I said he was a humble winner but could be a sore loser at times.

Just be secure in your beliefs and don't hate either way, and your tennis experience will be so much more enjoyable. All of these guys are all time greats, to not appreciate any of their games is a shame.

[REDDzone]

Also, generalizing groups of fans is one of the silliest things anyone can do. Like there really is some difference in the intelligence level between Rafa/Nole fans or Blazers/Thunder fans or Packers/Pats or whatever.

Just silliness.

[MikeIsGood]

I was really hoping, coming here, that the board would not be prone to 'homer this' and 'homer that.' If I wanted to see fan typecasting I'd frequent ESPN.

[Doctor MJ]

Also, generalizing groups of fans is one of the silliest things anyone can do. Like there really is some difference in the intelligence level between Rafa/Nole fans or Blazers/Thunder fans or Packers/Pats or whatever.

Just silliness.

I do apologize for any offense I've given. At the same time, there's really no doubt that when people are convinced by different things, this says something about them.

My issue has always been with the logical flaws in certain arguments. If people fall prey to those logical flaws, I'm not calling them stupid, but I am calling them inherently wrong, and when that results in a certain fanbase accusing me of bias toward a particular player, it means that that fanbase is being led toward irrationality by one way or another.

And it's not just a tennis thing by any means. Why do you think I brought up the Kobe thing? The same thing happens with the rabid supporters of the star of my team, and it certainly doesn't make me impressed by them. The thing is that in their defense, any other team's worst homers would be doing the same thing in an analogous situation. On the other hand, when you have people who consistently fall for the same type of player for the same oversimplistic reasons, well, this really isn't an impressive thing.

[Doctor MJ]

I do want to make clear also, that there are a lot of really good things you can argue for Rafa. Of course there are. GOAT clay courter, already a Top 10 or even Top 5 player in history, plays through pain like no one else, real humble rather than one of those "I want to praise Jesus for making me better than all of you.".

I'm bringing something up now, I'm sure it seems out of the blue to some, but I bring it up because we're seeing a unique opportunity for communication because of Rafa's reversal of fortune in his new primary rivalry. That opportunity is not for me to gloat saying "See Rafa sucks!" but to say "Y'know, this doesn't seem all that damning to me about Rafa".

[REDDzone]

On the other hand, when you have people who consistently fall for the same type of player for the same oversimplistic reasons, well, this really isn't an impressive thing.

Is this you presuming to know why people "fall" for Nadal? If so, please enlighten me on the oversimplistic reasons you think I "fell" for him, and why it is not an impressive thing?

I couldn't care less about how you feel about Kobe Bryant, btw. Honestly.

[Dr Positivity]

Djokovic's resilience in this match and the Fed US Open SF one really cements him as the stuff of legends, to go along with Fed and Nadal. I will tell my grandkids about these 3 guys

[REDDzone]

Djokovic's resilience in this match and the Fed US Open SF one really cements him as the stuff of legends, to go along with Fed and Nadal. I will tell my grandkids about these 3 guys

This is the same guy who was like crying on the court because it was so hot in Melbourne a few years ago. Now he wins a marathon against possibly the best conditioned player in history?

lol.

[Doctor MJ]

On the other hand, when you have people who consistently fall for the same type of player for the same oversimplistic reasons, well, this really isn't an impressive thing.

Is this you presuming to know why people "fall" for Nadal? If so, please enlighten me on the oversimplistic reasons you think I "fell" for him, and why it is not an impressive thing?

I couldn't care less about how you feel about Kobe Bryant, btw. Honestly.

Truly, you're right I get too biting in some of my comments. This post of yours though...

1) As I said before, I'm talking about the emphasis of head-to-head matchup edge over overall results without consideration of the myriad factors involved.

2) I have no idea what your opinions are in general, so when I talk about a group of people who keep falling for this type of thing, there's no reason at all this necessarily applies to you.

3) I don't expect you to care about what I think about Player X. I do expect your to be basketball literate though, and hence when my first post talking only about tennis doesn't make sense to you, I can use a basketball analogy for you to better understand what I'm coming from. If you're going to tune out whenever I try anything but direct tennis analysis, and we aren't being successful when communicating via direct tennis analysis, we're at an impasse.

[REDDzone]

My issue isn't with you thinking that some Nadal fans are irrational. I agree, that nadalwon guy clearly doesn't understand the current state of tennis, just for example. My issue is you characterizing "Nadal's fanbase" as "irrational" and generalizing "Nadal's fans" as more irrational than other fanbases.

Trust me, there are fans of any and every player who are just as irrational as Nadal's fans. You would have a lot more credibility if you didn't speak in such broad strokes. Also, tone down the defensiveness on Federer a little. People can appreciate Fed as the GOAT without thinking he is the most humble guy on the planet as well, just for example. Hell, he would probably even agree with some of that stuff.

And as for the Kobe thing, it just didn't seem applicable to me. "I am objective because I am a Laker fan who has criticized Kobe". Good for you dude, I just didn't/don't care one bit. That would be like me saying my opinion is more valid than yours because I live in Milwaukee and know the Bucks blow. It just doesn't matter in this context.

[Turk Nowitzki]

Djokovic's resilience in this match and the Fed US Open SF one really cements him as the stuff of legends, to go along with Fed and Nadal. I will tell my grandkids about these 3 guys

This is the same guy who was like crying on the court because it was so hot in Melbourne a few years ago. Now he wins a marathon against possibly the best conditioned player in history?

lol.

This is the insane thing to me, he lost that match to Roddick because it was too hot out and he quit. I never saw this level of tennis coming from him. I thought he would be more like Murray, a really really good player, but not capable of the greatness he's shown in the past year.

[brcl1519]

Hey, but we must consider that was record breaking long game! Both of them had equal chance to win. What a spectacular match! I would say winner was Tennis here, rather than those two.