Put Them Over the Top FINALS: Laimbeer vs Colbinii****

[Snakebites]

Here is a quick list of what you need in your writeup.

1. Specific years for each player on your team
2. Rotations and minutes for each player
3. Reasoning as to why your team will win and/or why people should vote for you.

Do not vote in this thread until both managers have submitted their writeups.

If writeups aren't posted within 24 hours, we will vote solely based on the players they have drafted (and any rotations they have posted on their roster page).

**First to 3 votes wins the championship**

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[Laimbeer]

Sam Perkins ( 1995 ) 9.0 -
Kawhi Leonard ( 2021 ) 17.5 -
Paul George ( 2021 ) 17.6 -
Desmond Bane ( 2023 ) 16.2 -
Chauncey Billups ( 2008 ) 11.2 -

Robert Williams ( 2021 ) 5.0 -
Nic Batum ( 2021 ) 6.1 -
Terrance Mann ( 2021 ) 5.2 -

87.8 / 88.0 87.8

Sam Perkins (34) / Robert Williams (14)
Kawhi Leonard (38) / Nic Batum (10)
Paul George (38) / Nic Batum (10)
Desmond Bane (28) / Terrance Mann (12) / Nic Batum (6)
Chauncey Billups (38) / Desmond Bane (10)


Offensively, we've got three elite scoring weapons, eye-popping spacing, and the perfect floor general for this group in Chauncey. Shaq and Grant will stretched into uncomfortable space. The stellar perimeter should be productive.

On defense, cut off the head. Kawhi will be on Hardaway and throw a wrench into an offense that is heavily dependent on him. Shaq is a load and going to get his, but we have two bodies to throw at him and a one through four defense that would be as good as any in helping and recovering. Grant, Battier, and Bowen being limited offensively helps as well. Whenever Manu is on the floor his playmaking will be somewhat redundant with Hardaway. Perkins-Time Lord/Shaq, George/Grant, Kawhi/Penny, Bane/Battier, Chauncey/Bowen.

Manu is the best bench player if viewed as such, but our answer of Williams, Batum, and Mann is solid.

[Colbinii]

Player Year FGA
Shaquille O'Neal 1996 19.1
Penny Hardaway 1996 14.8
Horace Grant 1996 10.7
Dennis Scott 1996 13.6
Manu Ginobili 2005 10.5
Shane Battier 2009 5.9
Bruce Bowen 2008 5.3
Kendrick Perkins 2010 6.6

Total FGA 86.5

Penny Hardaway (38) Manu Ginobili (10)
Manu Ginobili (27) Bruce Bowen (21)
Shane Battier (18) Dennis Scott (30)
Horace Grant (30) Shane Battier (18)
Shaquille O'Neal (40) Kendrick Perkins (8) Horace Grant (2)

Overall
Incredible size and length in our starting line-up with a huge Point Guard and large 2/3 who are knock-down shooters. Grant provides spacing as a do-it-all front-court mate next to Shaq.

Our bench is compiled with a Finals MVP in Manu Ginobili, in his peak season, along with Bowen off the bench as a defensive piece and knock-down shooter.

Offense
-Shaq is going to have a field day and get the opposition into foul trouble with the smaller Perkins and young Robert Williams defending him
-Manu adds a layer of complexity to our offense in the starting line-up while maintaining one of Manu/Penny on the court at all times.
-Grant/Shaq pose an extreme size advantage and we don't sacrifice spacing to accomplish the feat

Defense
-We have strong paint presence protection in Perkins/Shaq/Grant
-Young Shaq is more defensible in P&R Coverage compared to Lakers Shaq
-Grant is an excellent defensive piece as a help-defender and his BBIQ helps defending the larger wings in PG13/Kawhi
-We have plenty of wing defenders to throw at Kawhi/PG13 while we will start the game with Grant on PG13 [Keep in mind Towns defends PG13 to moderate success and Grant is more mobile than Towns]

Penny > Bane/PG13
Manu > Billups/Bane
Battier > Kawhi/PG13
Grant > PG13/Batum
Shaq > Perkins
Bowen > Kawhi

Overall
-Significant size advantage and rebounding advantage
-No Defensive Covers for Shaq while we have adequate defensive coverages for Kawhi/PG13
-Foul trouble is a real thing while our opponent has no bench bigs
-Best bench piece in Scott
-No real on-ball facilitators other than Billups, the Bane at PG line-ups will struggle to get into their sets consistently

[Fadeaway_J]

Their ability to go legitimately five-out will keep Laimbeer's group in every game; they're also woefully ill-equipped to deal with Shaq in the paint. A layup/dunk is still the most efficient shot at the end of the day, and Shaq will have his fill and then some against Perkins and Timelord. Laimbeer obviously has the advantage on the perimeter and can throw some exxcellent defenders at Penny and Manu, but Colbinii is also strong here with an elite backcourt, a lethal shooter in Scott, and a pair of top-notch 3-and-D wings in Bowen and Battier. If Colbinii's perimeter were a bit weaker in one aspect or another I'd bet on the math problem working out against him, but as it is he has enough to eke this one out.

Vote: Colbinii

[flaco]

I'm a sucker for elite-spacing teams. The elephant in the room is the Shaq-Perkins matchup. Obviously, Perkins isn't tall/strong enough to contain Shaq in the paint, but Shaq isn't mobile enough to defend the perimeter. The analytics suggest the matchup might actually favor Laimbeer or at the very least isn't game breaking in favor of Colbinii.




One might argue Shaq would have been even more efficient against a mobile big like Perkins, but the argument goes both ways. Perkins would have been more efficient as well shooting wide open 3s against a drop Center. While 1995 was the first season the NBA shortened the 3pt line, Perkins maintained his efficient 3pt shooting after the line was reverted to its original distance averaging 39.2%, 38.9% and 40.8% in 1998, 1999 and 2000 respectively.

Don't get me wrong, Shaq is amazing. If Colb had surrounded him with 3pt shooters, I would have voted for him. Penny is a slasher. Grant lacked 3pt range. At the end of the day, I think Laimbeer's 5-out offense is more efficient.

Vote: Laimbeer

[Dr Positivity]

I think even if I could talk myself into Laimbeer's spacing giving Colbinii issues enough to make up for the Shaq dominance factor, I like Colbinii's bench here more with Scott as a legit offensive threat and Laimbeer using a year too early version of Rob Williams costs him a much needed advantage over Perk. Vote Colbinii.

[durantbird]

Agree with Fade and Dr P.

Vote Colbinii

[Snakebites]

I was really torn on this one, but leaning Laimbeer.

Doesn't matter though. That's three votes.

Colbinii wins!

[Snakebites]

I'm a sucker for elite-spacing teams. The elephant in the room is the Shaq-Perkins matchup. Obviously, Perkins isn't tall/strong enough to contain Shaq in the paint, but Shaq isn't mobile enough to defend the perimeter. The analytics suggest the matchup might actually favor Laimbeer or at the very least isn't game breaking in favor of Colbinii.




One might argue Shaq would have been even more efficient against a mobile big like Perkins, but the argument goes both ways. Perkins would have been more efficient as well shooting wide open 3s against a drop Center. While 1995 was the first season the NBA shortened the 3pt line, Perkins maintained his efficient 3pt shooting after the line was reverted to its original distance averaging 39.2%, 38.9% and 40.8% in 1998, 1999 and 2000 respectively.

Don't get me wrong, Shaq is amazing. If Colb had surrounded him with 3pt shooters, I would have voted for him. Penny is a slasher. Grant lacked 3pt range. At the end of the day, I think Laimbeer's 5-out offense is more efficient.

Vote: Laimbeer

Give Perkins the number of touches that Shaq got and I guarantee that he doesn't approach Shaq's efficiency.

Don't get me wrong, I was torn on this matchup and was leaning towards Laimbeer, but this reasoning doesn't ring true for me.

[flaco]

I'm a sucker for elite-spacing teams. The elephant in the room is the Shaq-Perkins matchup. Obviously, Perkins isn't tall/strong enough to contain Shaq in the paint, but Shaq isn't mobile enough to defend the perimeter. The analytics suggest the matchup might actually favor Laimbeer or at the very least isn't game breaking in favor of Colbinii.




One might argue Shaq would have been even more efficient against a mobile big like Perkins, but the argument goes both ways. Perkins would have been more efficient as well shooting wide open 3s against a drop Center. While 1995 was the first season the NBA shortened the 3pt line, Perkins maintained his efficient 3pt shooting after the line was reverted to its original distance averaging 39.2%, 38.9% and 40.8% in 1998, 1999 and 2000 respectively.

Don't get me wrong, Shaq is amazing. If Colb had surrounded him with 3pt shooters, I would have voted for him. Penny is a slasher. Grant lacked 3pt range. At the end of the day, I think Laimbeer's 5-out offense is more efficient.

Vote: Laimbeer

Give Perkins the number of touches that Shaq got and I guarantee that he doesn't approach Shaq's efficiency.

Don't get me wrong, I was torn on this matchup and was leaning towards Laimbeer, but this reasoning doesn't ring true for me.

Doesn't really matter cause Perkins isn't expected to carry the scoring load. All 5 starters are reliable volume 3pt shooters. Whomever is left open takes the shot. There always be an open shooter when playing 5-out against drop coverage.

[Snakebites]

I'm a sucker for elite-spacing teams. The elephant in the room is the Shaq-Perkins matchup. Obviously, Perkins isn't tall/strong enough to contain Shaq in the paint, but Shaq isn't mobile enough to defend the perimeter. The analytics suggest the matchup might actually favor Laimbeer or at the very least isn't game breaking in favor of Colbinii.




One might argue Shaq would have been even more efficient against a mobile big like Perkins, but the argument goes both ways. Perkins would have been more efficient as well shooting wide open 3s against a drop Center. While 1995 was the first season the NBA shortened the 3pt line, Perkins maintained his efficient 3pt shooting after the line was reverted to its original distance averaging 39.2%, 38.9% and 40.8% in 1998, 1999 and 2000 respectively.

Don't get me wrong, Shaq is amazing. If Colb had surrounded him with 3pt shooters, I would have voted for him. Penny is a slasher. Grant lacked 3pt range. At the end of the day, I think Laimbeer's 5-out offense is more efficient.

Vote: Laimbeer

Give Perkins the number of touches that Shaq got and I guarantee that he doesn't approach Shaq's efficiency.

Don't get me wrong, I was torn on this matchup and was leaning towards Laimbeer, but this reasoning doesn't ring true for me.

Doesn't really matter cause Perkins isn't expected to carry the scoring load. All 5 starters are reliable volume 3pt shooters. Whomever is left open takes the shot. There always be an open shooter when playing 5-out against drop coverage.

I was merely saying that comparing their efficiencies doesn't really do much when you're comparing a first option to a 5th option.

That's all.

[Colbinii]

Sam Perkins ( 1995 ) 9.0 -
Kawhi Leonard ( 2021 ) 17.5 -
Paul George ( 2021 ) 17.6 -
Desmond Bane ( 2023 ) 16.2 -
Chauncey Billups ( 2008 ) 11.2 -

Robert Williams ( 2021 ) 5.0 -
Nic Batum ( 2021 ) 6.1 -
Terrance Mann ( 2021 ) 5.2 -

87.8 / 88.0 87.8

Sam Perkins (34) / Robert Williams (14)
Kawhi Leonard (38) / Nic Batum (10)
Paul George (38) / Nic Batum (10)
Desmond Bane (28) / Terrance Mann (12) / Nic Batum (6)
Chauncey Billups (38) / Desmond Bane (10)


Offensively, we've got three elite scoring weapons, eye-popping spacing, and the perfect floor general for this group in Chauncey. Shaq and Grant will stretched into uncomfortable space. The stellar perimeter should be productive.

On defense, cut off the head. Kawhi will be on Hardaway and throw a wrench into an offense that is heavily dependent on him. Shaq is a load and going to get his, but we have two bodies to throw at him and a one through four defense that would be as good as any in helping and recovering. Grant, Battier, and Bowen being limited offensively helps as well. Whenever Manu is on the floor his playmaking will be somewhat redundant with Hardaway. Perkins-Time Lord/Shaq, George/Grant, Kawhi/Penny, Bane/Battier, Chauncey/Bowen.

Manu is the best bench player if viewed as such, but our answer of Williams, Batum, and Mann is solid.

Good Match. These were likely the 2 best cores of the draft, glad they ended up in the Finals.

[Snakebites]

Sam Perkins ( 1995 ) 9.0 -
Kawhi Leonard ( 2021 ) 17.5 -
Paul George ( 2021 ) 17.6 -
Desmond Bane ( 2023 ) 16.2 -
Chauncey Billups ( 2008 ) 11.2 -

Robert Williams ( 2021 ) 5.0 -
Nic Batum ( 2021 ) 6.1 -
Terrance Mann ( 2021 ) 5.2 -

87.8 / 88.0 87.8

Sam Perkins (34) / Robert Williams (14)
Kawhi Leonard (38) / Nic Batum (10)
Paul George (38) / Nic Batum (10)
Desmond Bane (28) / Terrance Mann (12) / Nic Batum (6)
Chauncey Billups (38) / Desmond Bane (10)


Offensively, we've got three elite scoring weapons, eye-popping spacing, and the perfect floor general for this group in Chauncey. Shaq and Grant will stretched into uncomfortable space. The stellar perimeter should be productive.

On defense, cut off the head. Kawhi will be on Hardaway and throw a wrench into an offense that is heavily dependent on him. Shaq is a load and going to get his, but we have two bodies to throw at him and a one through four defense that would be as good as any in helping and recovering. Grant, Battier, and Bowen being limited offensively helps as well. Whenever Manu is on the floor his playmaking will be somewhat redundant with Hardaway. Perkins-Time Lord/Shaq, George/Grant, Kawhi/Penny, Bane/Battier, Chauncey/Bowen.

Manu is the best bench player if viewed as such, but our answer of Williams, Batum, and Mann is solid.

Good Match. These were likely the 2 best cores of the draft, glad they ended up in the Finals.

I was pretty stunned when Kawhi/PG fell to one spot before me. I thought I was going to get the core first on my draft board with the seventh pick.

Obviously that didn't end up happening.

[Colbinii]

Sam Perkins ( 1995 ) 9.0 -
Kawhi Leonard ( 2021 ) 17.5 -
Paul George ( 2021 ) 17.6 -
Desmond Bane ( 2023 ) 16.2 -
Chauncey Billups ( 2008 ) 11.2 -

Robert Williams ( 2021 ) 5.0 -
Nic Batum ( 2021 ) 6.1 -
Terrance Mann ( 2021 ) 5.2 -

87.8 / 88.0 87.8

Sam Perkins (34) / Robert Williams (14)
Kawhi Leonard (38) / Nic Batum (10)
Paul George (38) / Nic Batum (10)
Desmond Bane (28) / Terrance Mann (12) / Nic Batum (6)
Chauncey Billups (38) / Desmond Bane (10)


Offensively, we've got three elite scoring weapons, eye-popping spacing, and the perfect floor general for this group in Chauncey. Shaq and Grant will stretched into uncomfortable space. The stellar perimeter should be productive.

On defense, cut off the head. Kawhi will be on Hardaway and throw a wrench into an offense that is heavily dependent on him. Shaq is a load and going to get his, but we have two bodies to throw at him and a one through four defense that would be as good as any in helping and recovering. Grant, Battier, and Bowen being limited offensively helps as well. Whenever Manu is on the floor his playmaking will be somewhat redundant with Hardaway. Perkins-Time Lord/Shaq, George/Grant, Kawhi/Penny, Bane/Battier, Chauncey/Bowen.

Manu is the best bench player if viewed as such, but our answer of Williams, Batum, and Mann is solid.

Good Match. These were likely the 2 best cores of the draft, glad they ended up in the Finals.

I was pretty stunned when Kawhi/PG fell to one spot before me. I thought I was going to get the core first on my draft board with the seventh pick.

Obviously that didn't end up happening.

I opted for Shaq because he was unique in the cores--most Centers won in their prime with a core they spent a majority of their careers with.

Another interesting core was AD/Jrue in New Orleans.

[flaco]

Give Perkins the number of touches that Shaq got and I guarantee that he doesn't approach Shaq's efficiency.

Don't get me wrong, I was torn on this matchup and was leaning towards Laimbeer, but this reasoning doesn't ring true for me.

Doesn't really matter cause Perkins isn't expected to carry the scoring load. All 5 starters are reliable volume 3pt shooters. Whomever is left open takes the shot. There always be an open shooter when playing 5-out against drop coverage.

I was merely saying that comparing their efficiencies doesn't really do much when you're comparing a first option to a 5th option.

That's all.

Wouldn't expect his efficieny to drop if he were shooting wide-open 3s no matter the volume. He was already a volume shooter at 4.2 per game. That's a massive number for a big man in the 90s. I get your point though. They have different roles.

Congrats to Colbinii for the win! Seems like Shaq was OP in this pool. He was the only elite Center, especially after Embiid was left on the board.

[Snakebites]

Good Match. These were likely the 2 best cores of the draft, glad they ended up in the Finals.

I was pretty stunned when Kawhi/PG fell to one spot before me. I thought I was going to get the core first on my draft board with the seventh pick.

Obviously that didn't end up happening.

I opted for Shaq because he was unique in the cores--most Centers won in their prime with a core they spent a majority of their careers with.

Another interesting core was AD/Jrue in New Orleans.

Their best years didn't coincide (2017-18 was actually a poor shooting year for Jrue) and the other guys around them left some to be desired. Boogie never really worked out- the team seemed better when he was hurt.

[Laimbeer]

Sam Perkins ( 1995 ) 9.0 -
Kawhi Leonard ( 2021 ) 17.5 -
Paul George ( 2021 ) 17.6 -
Desmond Bane ( 2023 ) 16.2 -
Chauncey Billups ( 2008 ) 11.2 -

Robert Williams ( 2021 ) 5.0 -
Nic Batum ( 2021 ) 6.1 -
Terrance Mann ( 2021 ) 5.2 -

87.8 / 88.0 87.8

Sam Perkins (34) / Robert Williams (14)
Kawhi Leonard (38) / Nic Batum (10)
Paul George (38) / Nic Batum (10)
Desmond Bane (28) / Terrance Mann (12) / Nic Batum (6)
Chauncey Billups (38) / Desmond Bane (10)


Offensively, we've got three elite scoring weapons, eye-popping spacing, and the perfect floor general for this group in Chauncey. Shaq and Grant will stretched into uncomfortable space. The stellar perimeter should be productive.

On defense, cut off the head. Kawhi will be on Hardaway and throw a wrench into an offense that is heavily dependent on him. Shaq is a load and going to get his, but we have two bodies to throw at him and a one through four defense that would be as good as any in helping and recovering. Grant, Battier, and Bowen being limited offensively helps as well. Whenever Manu is on the floor his playmaking will be somewhat redundant with Hardaway. Perkins-Time Lord/Shaq, George/Grant, Kawhi/Penny, Bane/Battier, Chauncey/Bowen.

Manu is the best bench player if viewed as such, but our answer of Williams, Batum, and Mann is solid.

Good Match. These were likely the 2 best cores of the draft, glad they ended up in the Finals.

Agreed and congrats. My silver medal case continues to overflow. I had Kawhi/George with good support as number one and was shocked when they slid.