1980's to Present Keeper League

a_sensei · Post #22 » by **a_sensei** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:33 am

I'd love to join with the Blazers.

SabasRevenge! · Post #23 » by **SabasRevenge!** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:53 am

a_sensei wrote:I'd love to join with the Blazers.

Great! What's your contact info?

You'll be selecting 11th in the first round and 1st in every round hereafter.

a_sensei · Post #24 » by **a_sensei** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 12:42 am

My bad Sabas. My email is asensei1@hotmail.com. I haven't used AIM in a long time.

SabasRevenge! · Post #25 » by **SabasRevenge!** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 6:46 pm

We're up to 12 of 14 spots filled. If anyone wants to recommend this sim to a reliable poster you know, feel free. Otherwise we'll roll with 12.

Reminder: After the first round, picks will be skipped after eight hours. If you see your spot coming up and think you might be unable to check in for a bit, please send a short list to a trusted GM. TMACFORMVP and Warspite, among others, are good choices to send a list to. Feel free to send me your list as well. Respect and sportsmanship dictate that your short list will not be shared.

a_sensei · Post #26 » by **a_sensei** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 6:01 pm

This is probably a dumb question. How do I see what players other teams have chosen?

Warspite · Post #27 » by **Warspite** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:02 pm

The draft thread has the players chosen on the 1st page

SabasRevenge! · Post #28 » by **SabasRevenge!** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 6:20 pm

What does everyone think about the future draft format of AAAA?

Would AABB be better?

This way, the advantages of tanking are definitely pronounced in the first two rounds, when the best players are available, but the winning teams get good picks in the last two rounds.

Warspite · Post #29 » by **Warspite** » Sun Feb 1, 2009 9:53 am

I dont like AAAA because it encourages tanking. ABBA is something I would be willing to try. If bottom teams are not improving with the ABBB format then some tinkering is in order. Since We dont know the results of ABBB its premature to change. When a player like Fat Lever who is a borderline starter in this league is a 2nd rd pick Im not so sure the draft order is the problem. Would you take a prime Steve Francis over a prime Hakeem?? Thats what happened with Lever and the HoF (I dont care if hes not in he should be) C on the board. I believe there are 4 HoF Cs still on the board in the middle of the 2nd rd.

SabasRevenge! · Post #30 » by **SabasRevenge!** » Sun Feb 1, 2009 4:33 pm

Warspite wrote:I dont like AAAA because it encourages tanking. ABBA is something I would be willing to try. If bottom teams are not improving with the ABBB format then some tinkering is in order. Since We dont know the results of ABBB its premature to change. When a player like Fat Lever who is a borderline starter in this league is a 2nd rd pick Im not so sure the draft order is the problem. Would you take a prime Steve Francis over a prime Hakeem?? Thats what happened with Lever and the HoF (I dont care if hes not in he should be) C on the board. I believe there are 4 HoF Cs still on the board in the middle of the 2nd rd.

All very valid points. ABBBBB seemed to work to even things out in the least keeper start up draft (teams with first few picks still won, but it gave the later teams better chances). ABBA is an interesting suggestion. It ensures that the worst teams will get the top picks in the draft, but teams that are very good and may be facing the retirement of a lot of players won't be punished. That format may allow savvy GMs to overcome weak draft positions more easily. AABB is a less exaggerated evening out to consider as (in a four round draft) there will likely be many solid players available after the first round.

IMO tanking is a legitimate strategy (although it's one that I don't enjoy partaking in), but we've seen a problem when tanking becomes too prevalent and there is a glut of superb talent available. In this draft, much of the superb talent is still quite good in the next era, so the advantages of tanking might not be felt for two more eras. In addition, the draft in the next era is so deep that a team picking 10th could get superstar talent, just a few degrees from the team picking 3rd.

War, you might see said (travesty he's not in the) HOF center fall to you! I had to go with my main man Buck Williams - I've got a lot of fond memories from his Blazers years and he's a rock down there for the next three eras, but I was going to take that C until the final minute. I think there are a LOT of excellent players (even HOF) that will slip through the cracks, but we'll see less and less of that as the eras march on.

a_sensei · Post #31 » by **a_sensei** » Sun Feb 1, 2009 5:49 pm

As for the draft order/ tanking argument. I don't think the Fat Lever pick is one that shows he is set on tanking. You want to build your team around a PG or a C (says the guy who has drafted a pair of forwards) and there was really obvious PGs after Magic and Isiah. Lever nearly averaged a triple double in the second era of our league. He was one of four PGs I thought about for my number four pick... although I decided none were a huge step above what I'll get in later rounds. Said should be HOF center, who I nearly chose in the second round, did a majority of his damage before our league starts. He would still be a great guy to have on the team these first couple of eras, but I didn't look at him as a "can't pass up" option. Unless I'm missing one of the other HOF centers you are talking about, they are all on their last legs by the early 80s (either due to age, or injuries never fully healed due to my favorite team's "incompetent medical staff."

I guess I'd probably argue for AABB or ABAB, I think ABBA would really help keep the top teams on top, especially given the small number of teams and deep draft classes coming up.

Also, I might have missed it, but where do expansion teams get to draft? Does an expansion team automatically get the 2009 president of the NBA's newest expansion team?

SabasRevenge! wrote:
Warspite wrote:I dont like AAAA because it encourages tanking. ABBA is something I would be willing to try. If bottom teams are not improving with the ABBB format then some tinkering is in order. Since We dont know the results of ABBB its premature to change. When a player like Fat Lever who is a borderline starter in this league is a 2nd rd pick Im not so sure the draft order is the problem. Would you take a prime Steve Francis over a prime Hakeem?? Thats what happened with Lever and the HoF (I dont care if hes not in he should be) C on the board. I believe there are 4 HoF Cs still on the board in the middle of the 2nd rd.

All very valid points. ABBBBB seemed to work to even things out in the least keeper start up draft (teams with first few picks still won, but it gave the later teams better chances). ABBA is an interesting suggestion. It ensures that the worst teams will get the top picks in the draft, but teams that are very good and may be facing the retirement of a lot of players won't be punished. That format may allow savvy GMs to overcome weak draft positions more easily. AABB is a less exaggerated evening out to consider as (in a four round draft) there will likely be many solid players available after the first round.

IMO tanking is a legitimate strategy (although it's one that I don't enjoy partaking in), but we've seen a problem when tanking becomes too prevalent and there is a glut of superb talent available. In this draft, much of the superb talent is still quite good in the next era, so the advantages of tanking might not be felt for two more eras. In addition, the draft in the next era is so deep that a team picking 10th could get superstar talent, just a few degrees from the team picking 3rd.

War, you might see said (travesty he's not in the) HOF center fall to you! I had to go with my main man Buck Williams - I've got a lot of fond memories from his Blazers years and he's a rock down there for the next three eras, but I was going to take that C until the final minute. I think there are a LOT of excellent players (even HOF) that will slip through the cracks, but we'll see less and less of that as the eras march on.

SabasRevenge! · Post #32 » by **SabasRevenge!** » Sun Feb 1, 2009 6:03 pm

a_sensei wrote:Also, I might have missed it, but where do expansion teams get to draft? Does an expansion team automatically get the 2009 president of the NBA's newest expansion team?

Just like in the NBA, expansion franchises start with the fourth pick. They also get to select from the unprotected players list. Expansion teams will probably be bad in their first season, but should be able to pick it up for their second season.

Another consideration would be giving expansion teams their first round pick and a supplemental pick.
ex. if we had a 14 team league with 2 expansion teams, the expansion teams would pick 4th and 5th, but they would also be given supplemental "sandwich" picks between certain rounds. Perhaps expansion teams should receive on extra pick between the second and third rounds?

Lever is an all-star in the next two eras as well as a one-time all-D selection, made the playoffs his first eight years in the league, and is a career 16/7/7 kind of guy. His reb edge at the PG position especially could come into play. IMO it's certainly a defensible pick.

a_sensei · Post #33 » by **a_sensei** » Sun Feb 1, 2009 6:13 pm

btw my aim is pdxsensei

Post #34 » by **bryant08** » Mon Feb 2, 2009 9:25 pm

I still don't think I'm exactly tanking, more of a compete now, win later theory. Lever is a solid player in the next couple of eras, but yeah it's not like I didn't explore other avenues. I wanted to assemble a young team with some solid defensive principles.

And does this draft incl. the 83-84 season, or this that next era??

SabasRevenge! · Post #35 » by **SabasRevenge!** » Mon Feb 2, 2009 9:40 pm

bryant08 wrote:I still don't think I'm exactly tanking, more of a compete now, win later theory. Lever is a solid player in the next couple of eras, but yeah it's not like I didn't explore other avenues. I wanted to assemble a young team with some solid defensive principles.

And does this draft incl. the 83-84 season, or this that next era??

83-84 is in the next era

Warspite · Post #36 » by **Warspite** » Tue Feb 3, 2009 8:44 am

I dont have a problem with ABAA to be honest and I as a good team would rather have the B in the 2nd rd and allow the rebuilding teams to draft 1st in the later rds. Throwing contenders a bone in the 2nd rd would do more to help teams stay competitiive and less likely to want to pull a 1999 Bulls team and completely dismantle

My draft strategy will be
1st BPA
2nd Biggest need
3rd future need
4th BPA

There are over 30 allstars in every era so I dont see a need to draft anyone who didnt play in one before the 3rd rd. Furthermore I dont think a person who is not 1st or 2nd all NBA should be taken in the 1st rd.

I believe 1 era players should be avoided and 2 era players are less valuable but a 3 era player is not automaticly valuable. The age of the players should not be the #1 factor. It very well should be a tie breaker but not the be all and end all.

If you draft 9 guys who are all 2 and 3 era players and then draft 4 more who are as well then the eras are waisted as you have a players who do not play or get cut. You have 9 players this era, 12 next era so you will cut 1 player or have 1 single era player after the next draft. Then you will have 4 picks to replace about 6 players thus reducing your team to 10 players. Its not a big deal since you will most likely use a 8 man rotation.

SabasRevenge! · Post #37 » by **SabasRevenge!** » Tue Feb 3, 2009 8:18 pm

A couple of things:

I'm really leaning towards moving to AABB for the next draft. I think nine rounds is fine for this draft, but depending on how many keeper players (on avg.) we end up with and how many expansion teams we get, the next draft may need to be five rounds due to the depth of players that will be available. In that case, the order for the next draft would be AABBA.

Also, now that the third round is almost over, we're going to move to a six hour time limit on picks, with the wee hours of the night being the exception. If a GM comes on the clock at around 8pm, the six hours is in effect, but if a GM comes on the clock in the middle of the night, it's not. This will make it pretty important to send a short list if you won't be able to check in with regularity. Ex. if you're four picks out, send a list of four players to a GM that picks after you.

london sonic · Post #38 » by **london sonic** » Wed Feb 4, 2009 2:13 am

SabasRevenge! wrote:A couple of things:

I'm really leaning towards moving to AABB for the next draft. I think nine rounds is fine for this draft, but depending on how many keeper players (on avg.) we end up with and how many expansion teams we get, the next draft may need to be five rounds due to the depth of players that will be available. In that case, the order for the next draft would be AABBA.

Also, now that the third round is almost over, we're going to move to a six hour time limit on picks, with the wee hours of the night being the exception. If a GM comes on the clock at around 8pm, the six hours is in effect, but if a GM comes on the clock in the middle of the night, it's not. This will make it pretty important to send a short list if you won't be able to check in with regularity. Ex. if you're four picks out, send a list of four players to a GM that picks after you.

Didnt the aba merge with nba in 1976 doesnt that mean were going back in time if its gonna be the next era .How will we grade the next era if its before the 1979-83 era.Im a bit confused.

SabasRevenge! · Post #39 » by **SabasRevenge!** » Wed Feb 4, 2009 3:00 am

london sonic wrote:Didnt the aba merge with nba in 1976 doesnt that mean were going back in time if its gonna be the next era .How will we grade the next era if its before the 1979-83 era.Im a bit confused.

AABB or AABBA is the draft order. This draft was ABBBBBBB. A is the original order and B is the reverse order, so an A round would have team 1 picking first and a B round would have team 1 picking last.

london sonic · Post #40 » by **london sonic** » Wed Feb 4, 2009 10:41 am

SabasRevenge! wrote:
london sonic wrote:Didnt the aba merge with nba in 1976 doesnt that mean were going back in time if its gonna be the next era .How will we grade the next era if its before the 1979-83 era.Im a bit confused.

AABB or AABBA is the draft order. This draft was ABBBBBBB. A is the original order and B is the reverse order, so an A round would have team 1 picking first and a B round would have team 1 picking last.

oh I see