Statistical analysis on why Larry Bird is overrated

[kobe_vs_jordan]

There is this thing called relative greatness that is often missed in these cross era comparision. Like during your era, how much better are you than your peers.

At the time , Bird and Magic was considered GOAT candidates. So comparing his stats to modern day stats is a flawed premise.

[HBK_Kliq_33]

"*TS% Analysis on why Larry Bird is overrated"

fixed the title for u

His offensive rating was mentioned plenty of times. For a guy who is supposed to be an offensive god, he sure is underwhelming on efficiency and rating.

Some other poster said he's a great defender Hahahha. In today's era when their is switches defensively on pick and rolls nearly every damn play? Bird would get isolated and sent to hell! His defense would get exposed so badly in today's game. He is lucky they were not iso happy in the 80s. Today? They would get him in pick and rolls and he would find himself 1 on 1 on an island vs a guy 10x more athletic than he is.

[Danny1616]

There is this thing called relative greatness that is often missed in these cross era comparision. Like during your era, how much better are you than your peers.

At the time , Bird and Magic was considered GOAT candidates. So comparing his stats to modern day stats is a flawed premise.

Even crazier is the fact that Bird posted three 50/40/90 seasons.

Bird is the only player other than Steve Nash to have posted a 50/40/90 season more then one time.

Only 8 players in NBA history have had 50/40/90 seasons.

In terms of analytics, Bird is the king.

In 1986, Bird had a 50/40/90 statistical line in the playoffs, which is unheard of.

[kobe_vs_jordan]

There is this thing called relative greatness that is often missed in these cross era comparision. Like during your era, how much better are you than your peers.

At the time , Bird and Magic was considered GOAT candidates. So comparing his stats to modern day stats is a flawed premise.

Even crazier is the fact that Bird posted three 50/40/90 seasons.

Bird is the only player other than Steve Nash to have posted a 50/40/90 season more then one time.

Only 8 players in NBA history have had 50/40/90 seasons.

No telling how crazy good his splits would of been in this era vs an era where the 3 point line was relatively new.

[AbeVigodaLive]

There is this thing called relative greatness that is often missed in these cross era comparision. Like during your era, how much better are you than your peers.

At the time , Bird and Magic was considered GOAT candidates. So comparing his stats to modern day stats is a flawed premise.

Even crazier is the fact that Bird posted three 50/40/90 seasons.

Bird is the only player other than Steve Nash to have posted a 50/40/90 season more then one time.

Only 8 players in NBA history have had 50/40/90 seasons.

In terms of analytics, Bird is the king.

In 1986, Bird had a 50/40/90 statistical line in the playoffs, which is unheard of.

But he never shot more than 3 of them per game in those seasons!

That's just stupid basketball... more proof that Bird was overrated AND had a terrible basketball IQ.

He actively hurt his team by taking stupid, less efficient shots and stuff.

[70sFan]

HBK finally found Bird's BasketballReference profile. Now he can believe that Kawhi is better than him!

[clyde21]

btw -- as much as I hate on the older players, Bird is one dude I will never hate on, he's a guy I truly believe would be even BETTER today than he was back then...what Luka is doing now Bird would probably be doing, and he's even bigger.

[Pg81]

There is too much Dunning and Kruger in that first post.

[stillgotgame]

1981 - Bird averaged 15 PPG on less than 42% shooting in finals and celtics offense dropped to 106 offensive rating from its regular season 108 offensive rating. Luckily for celtics, rockets posted an embarrassing offensive rating of 95.

1982/1983 - Bird spends the next two playoff years in 1982 and 83 posting offensive ratings of 103 and 102 with a TS of just 47%

1984 - Regular season he has a TS of 55% which is just 0.9 above average at the time. He has a good playoff run but faces a 1 man Knicks team, a bucks team that struggled in playoffs and an average defensive team Lakers in the finals.

1985 - Bird goes against the 7th ranked defensive in the finals and manages to have a 52% TS which is below even league average at the time! Bird's finals TS was a 5% drop from his regular season. Bird's entire playoff run TS was at just 53.6% TS which was below league average at the time. His playoff run also had an underwhelming 5.6 BPM.

1986 - He sweeps a Sidney Moncrief/Don Nelson team in the ECF. Moncrief and Nelson were the 80s version of Harden and D'antoni, you know sooner or later they are going to choke. Moncrief only plays 3 games. In the finals, Kevin McHale is celtics best scorer at 25.8 PPG 63% TS to Larry Bird's 24.0 PPG 58% TS. Bird has the overwhelming favorite team and he wins in a similar fashion to Stephen Curry around 2015-2018 era.

1986/1987 - He posts just a 5.8 BPM in the playoffs, this is the second time in three years where he was less than 6 BPM during a playoff run. In the east finals vs pistons his eFG% drops to 50% which is by over 5% to his reg season and McHale has to carry him at 63% eFG%. In the finals he faces Lakers and his eFG% now drops to a massive level of -9 compared to his regular season and has a worse than league average TS. Once again, he's not even facing an elite defense at Lakers are 7th ranked.

1987/88 - His playoff run he had a 53.8 TS which is just league average at the time. 6.2 BPM that's nothing to brag about. His team struggles in the 2nd round vs a 14th ranked defense team hawks and goes 7 games, bird posts a 112 offensive rating with a 58% TS and is carried by McHale once again at an 134 offensive rating and 70% TS. In the east finals vs pistons, he embarrasses himself averaging less than 20 PPG on worse than 45% TS and a 36% eFG%.

After that, his back went out on him and than he went home. That makes you a goat level player? Overrated is how I see it. Thoughts?

You couldn't be any more clueless than this.

[GreatWhiteStiff]

There is this thing called relative greatness that is often missed in these cross era comparision. Like during your era, how much better are you than your peers.

At the time , Bird and Magic was considered GOAT candidates. So comparing his stats to modern day stats is a flawed premise.

Even crazier is the fact that Bird posted three 50/40/90 seasons.

Bird is the only player other than Steve Nash to have posted a 50/40/90 season more then one time.

Only 8 players in NBA history have had 50/40/90 seasons.

In terms of analytics, Bird is the king.

In 1986, Bird had a 50/40/90 statistical line in the playoffs, which is unheard of.

But he never shot more than 3 of them per game in those seasons!

That's just stupid basketball... more proof that Bird was overrated AND had a terrible basketball IQ.

He actively hurt his team by taking stupid, less efficient shots and stuff.

I'm not sure if this is trolling, but bird not shooting threes may have hurt him more than any other player. He could make them but would refuse to shoot or practice them IIRC. This would really help bird in the modern era, but would've helped him in his own era.

[Capn'O]

A reckoning is coming...

Edge-lords will eventually face a day of reckoning... with Basketball Jesus.

Ha! Just missed.

[limbo]

Kawhi LAST 3 PS runs:

46 Games - 38.4 PTS (63%TS), 11.1 REB, 5.3 AST, 3.5 TO per 100

.270 WS/48, 7 OBPM, 2.7 DBPM = 9.7 BPM, 5 VORP


Bird BEST 3 PS runs:

58 Games - 28.9 PTS (58%TS), 13.1 REB, 7.7 AST, 3.8 TO per 100

.232 WS/48, 5.3 OBPM, 4.3 DBPM = 9.6 BPM, 2.4 VORP

[theforumblue]

... bird's overrated stuff..

Who's your top 10 then? Anyone can be "overrated" so where do you put him

[HBK_Kliq_33]

HBK finally found Bird's BasketballReference profile. Now he can believe that Kawhi is better than him!

Bird had efficiency problems in the playoffs. People always knock Kobe for it and Kobe is far better defensively. Bird should be considered a top 15/20 guy like Dirk. Instead? They glorify him because him and Magic made NBA popular and put him on a top 5/10 level! That's not right

[meekrab]

Comparing playoff stats with league average regular season stats...

[CBS7]

You used playoff BPM and TS% as your main points.
His playoff career 6.88 BPM is 9th highest of all time (only goes back to 72-73). He lead the league with 10+ BPMs in 2 of his 3 title runs (which you seem to disregard because of his competition)
His playoff TS% of .551 is in the same realm of guys like Wade, Duncan, Robinson, and Dr J.

You can use "analysis" to make any all time great look bad if you marginalize their good years and focus on their worst (but still good) years.

[kobe_vs_jordan]

There is this thing called relative greatness that is often missed in these cross era comparision. Like during your era, how much better are you than your peers.

At the time , Bird and Magic was considered GOAT candidates. So comparing his stats to modern day stats is a flawed premise.

Even crazier is the fact that Bird posted three 50/40/90 seasons.

Bird is the only player other than Steve Nash to have posted a 50/40/90 season more then one time.

Only 8 players in NBA history have had 50/40/90 seasons.

In terms of analytics, Bird is the king.

In 1986, Bird had a 50/40/90 statistical line in the playoffs, which is unheard of.

But he never shot more than 3 of them per game in those seasons!

That's just stupid basketball... more proof that Bird was overrated AND had a terrible basketball IQ.

He actively hurt his team by taking stupid, less efficient shots and stuff.

Well guess who lead the league in 3 point makes in the 86-87 season? Bird. Guess the whole league was filled with overrated and terrible IQ players.

[Norm2953]

Too many downgrade guys who played before their time but I saw a lot of the games in Portland in the 80's
with Bird vs Drexler and over-rated is the last thing I would say about Bird.

I do think these arguemts are pointless for the great players today would do fine in the 80's for they are
so much physically more athletic than than their peers in the 80's. Nobody knows how much better the
players of yesteryear would be under today's rules with more modern medicine and better techniques in
strength and conditioning.

[HBK_Kliq_33]

... bird's overrated stuff..

Who's your top 10 then? Anyone can be "overrated" so where do you put him

Peaks I say Jordan wilt kareem duncan magic lebron hakeem shaq kawhi Russell are all clearly better than Bird.

[scrabbarista]

Even crazier is the fact that Bird posted three 50/40/90 seasons.

Bird is the only player other than Steve Nash to have posted a 50/40/90 season more then one time.

Only 8 players in NBA history have had 50/40/90 seasons.

In terms of analytics, Bird is the king.

In 1986, Bird had a 50/40/90 statistical line in the playoffs, which is unheard of.

But he never shot more than 3 of them per game in those seasons!

That's just stupid basketball... more proof that Bird was overrated AND had a terrible basketball IQ.

He actively hurt his team by taking stupid, less efficient shots and stuff.

I'm not sure if this is trolling, but bird not shooting threes may have hurt him more than any other player. He could make them but would refuse to shoot or practice them IIRC. This would really help bird in the modern era, but would've helped him in his own era.

Funny you say he refused to practice them, because I've believed since I heard/read it in the 90's (I may have read it in one of his biographies, I can't remember) that Bird wouldn't leave an arena after a game until he'd made 30 straight three's. So... as far as the practicing part... I think you don't RC.