Is Kawhi Leonard a "system" player?

[oceanlife]

That was a well done video. You've made a very good case for Kawhi being equally effective on any squad. The one thing I think he would lose if he left the spurs would be his open 3's which that franchise appears (to my eyeball test) to be good at.

Look forward to more of your videos. Please post more.

[old rem]

I'm not sure what defines "system player" but I would not apply that to star guys. I Guess..... it suggests a versatile talent, a "Team" player, which is a GOOD thing. You may say some guys would not be the same on a crappy team.... but that's hard to validate.

[tsherkin]

The obvious answer here is "no," if one assumes "system player" to be a pejorative. He does a lot more than score off of sets that are specifically designed to get him easy looks, especially this year. It's clear that his J, his post game, his isolation game, it's all well beyond that sort of stuff.

[Ruzious]

Ah, the 5 players on a team using a round ball system. Yes, he's definitely helped by that ingenious system!

He's easily easily EASILY... the best player at both ends of the court on a very good team. He does not have an excellent PG setting him up. I'm baffled as to how anyone could come up with the idea that his success is related to him being a system player.

[PurpleTrees]

I think he is overrated but he I wouldn't say he is a system player. He can create his own shot pretty well and he has a postup game. He would average 20 on almost any team. Klay Thompson on the other hand is a guy i would categorize as a system player.

[The_Hater]

I think he is overrated but he I wouldn't say he is a system player. He can create his own shot pretty well and he has a postup game. He would average 20 on almost any team. Klay Thompson on the other hand is a guy i would categorize as a system player.

Thompson would average better than 25 ppg on most of the teams in the league. He has the entire offensive arsenal

[Drylick]

I think what the OP means is that would Kawhi be the player that he is now if he didn't play for the Spurs? Because for me I would say no.

[laika]

It's becoming increasingly hard to avoid that label. Leonard's On/Off is massively worse than that of any other superstar. If Kawhi is so good then why don't the Spurs ever play worse when he isn't in?

My vote is yes.

[AdagioPace]

It's becoming increasingly hard to avoid that label. Leonard's On/Off is massively worse than that of any other superstar. If Kawhi is so good then why don't the Spurs ever play worse when he isn't in?

My vote is yes.

so your judgment is based only on one rating system? His RPM looks great,aligned with other superstars.

last year he had a positve +7 on-off, this year is -1
Did he become a system player when infact he wasn't? or viceversa or..my head is exploding

[Phreak50]

It's becoming increasingly hard to avoid that label. Leonard's On/Off is massively worse than that of any other superstar. If Kawhi is so good then why don't the Spurs ever play worse when he isn't in?

My vote is yes.

Because they have one of the best bench's in the league? And because the team and plays are all the same for every unit out there.

You only have to look at the last game VS the Bucks where he had 30pts, 3 blocks, 3 steals to see he is an absolute superstar on both ends of the court.

The scary thing is, he still has a massive room for improvement with his offensive game.

I've watched the NBA for almost 25 years now and no single player has improved on offense as much as Kawhi has done. He has gone from barely being able to handle the ball, to now create off the dribble for others, getting to the rim for himself or pulling up off the dribble for one of the best mid range games in the league.

His jumpshot was almost non-existent and he is now one of the top free throw shooters and three point shooters as well.

The Spurs have a great system but you can't do what Kawhi is doing unless you are great yourself.

[laika]

It's becoming increasingly hard to avoid that label. Leonard's On/Off is massively worse than that of any other superstar. If Kawhi is so good then why don't the Spurs ever play worse when he isn't in?

My vote is yes.

so your judgment is based only on one rating system? His RPM looks great,aligned with other superstars.

last year he had a positve +7 on-off, this year is -1
Did he become a system player when infact he wasn't? or viceversa or..my head is exploding

+7 is getting pretty borderline for a superstar. Minus 1 is basically unprecedented for a superstar, to the point you have to consider whether the player is being overrated.

Because they have one of the best bench's in the league? And because the team and plays are all the same for every unit out there.

You are arguing against yourself. If the players are interchangeable then that is strong evidence that Leonard is not a true superstar.

So let's discount the fact that Kawhi might have the best bench any presumed superstar has ever had. Most superstars are significantly better than the other starters also. Kawhi is not. Also, having a great bench should help Leonard's stats with respect to the other starters since he plays more minutes. Gasol is the only player who could even be mildly dragging Leonard down. But RPM thinks Gasol is a good player so that shouldn't be possible for at least the RPM adjusted numbers.

Green- 3.5
Leonard-0.8
Parker-0.7
Aldridge-minus 0.2
Gasol- minus 3.6

RPM is a decent approximation but it also has some strange values. Such as Leonard's. If anyone wants to explain how it is possible for a player with such pedestrian On/Off numbers to have a great adjusted one then feel free.

[AdagioPace]

It's becoming increasingly hard to avoid that label. Leonard's On/Off is massively worse than that of any other superstar. If Kawhi is so good then why don't the Spurs ever play worse when he isn't in?

My vote is yes.

so your judgment is based only on one rating system? His RPM looks great,aligned with other superstars.

last year he had a positve +7 on-off, this year is -1
Did he become a system player when infact he wasn't? or viceversa or..my head is exploding

+7 is getting pretty borderline for a superstar. Minus 1 is basically unprecedented for a superstar, to the point you have to consider whether the player is being overrated.

Because they have one of the best bench's in the league? And because the team and plays are all the same for every unit out there.

You are arguing against yourself. If the players are interchangeable then that is strong evidence that Leonard is not a true superstar.

So let's discount the fact that Kawhi might have the best bench any presumed superstar has ever had. Most superstars are significantly better than the other starters also. Kawhi is not. Also, having a great bench should help Leonard's stats with respect to the other starters since he plays more minutes. Gasol is the only player who could even be mildly dragging Leonard down. But RPM thinks Gasol is a good player so that shouldn't be possible for at least the RPM adjusted numbers.

Green- 3.5
Leonard-0.8
Parker-0.7
Aldridge-minus 0.2
Gasol- minus 3.6

RPM is a decent approximation but it also has some strange values. Such as Leonard's. If anyone wants to explain how it is possible for a player with such pedestrian On/Off numbers to have a great adjusted one then feel free.

I'm no expert but I think one of the reasons might be that most of his impact is mitigated by the noisy effect of sharing the floor with "the good and the BADS" of Gasol,Parker,Green and Aldridge. Popovich is obsessed with "fixed rotations" and keeps kawhi always with the starters otherwise they would be borderline trash offensively.
I don't know. Some thoughts
1)As you already know some people have argued aboout him being put in isolation in defense.
2) I simply can't believe a player averging 24 with 60 TS% with few TOVs and good to great defense can have a neutral impact and if he does it means Pop is simply a genius, but that doesn take anything away from Leonard.

It's an interesting case to study

[The_Hater]

If Leonard is a system player I guess we have to say the same about Duncan.