Jump into the Poole Party: The Official Jordan Poole Thread

[queridiculo]

Nice take on Poole that has me looking forward to what he's going to do in Washington next season.

Watch on YouTube

Starts around the 41 minute mark.

[doclinkin]

Watch on YouTube

At times his handle is Kyrie-esque.

[DCZards]

At times his handle is Kyrie-esque.

Yes…watching these videos one of the things that has surprised/impressed me the most about J. Poole has been his handle. I had no idea it was that good.

[nate33]

At times his handle is Kyrie-esque.

Yes…watching these videos one of the things that has surprised/impressed me the most about J. Poole has been his handle. I had no idea it was that good.

Man, videos like this really get me excited. There's no better time than the offseason to be a Wizards fan!

Seriously though, you gotta respect how much Poole has worked on his game. His footwork and ball handling are really impressive. It'll be interesting to watch him as the #1 option in DC. Presumably, his efficiency will suffer a bit at first, but he's going to have plenty of opportunity to hone his game further. He has all the tools to be a top 20 player if he can put it all together.

I'm really intrigued with his ball handling. It's not a stretch at all to envision him as the primary ball-handler - a modern Gilbert Arenas. If we can ultimately move him to PG and put some tall wings who can pass around him, it will solve a lot of defensive problems.

[DCZards]

At times his handle is Kyrie-esque.

Yes…watching these videos one of the things that has surprised/impressed me the most about J. Poole has been his handle. I had no idea it was that good.

Man, videos like this really get me excited. There's no better time than the offseason to be a Wizards fan!

Seriously though, you gotta respect how much Poole has worked on his game. His footwork and ball handling are really impressive. It'll be interesting to watch him as the #1 option in DC. Presumably, his efficiency will suffer a bit at first, but he's going to have plenty of opportunity to hone his game further. He has all the tools to be a top 20 player if he can put it all together.

I'm really intrigued with his ball handling. It's not a stretch at all to envision him as the primary ball-handler - a modern Gilbert Arenas. If we can ultimately move him to PG and put some tall wings who can pass around him, it will solve a lot of defensive problems.

I feel very differently about Poole eventually becoming the Zards PG. I think he best serves the Zards’ short and long-term needs as a SG.

I like PGs whose core instinct is to involve teammates—putting them in the best position to help the team offensively. I don’t really see that as ever being one of Poole’s strengths.

Poole seems to me to be a flat out scorer and gunner. Someone whose mission (and role) is to aggressively look to score pretty much every time he touches the ball. It would diminish Poole’s impact on winning, imo, to ask him to take on the responsibilities associated with good PG play.

Sure JP can play some PG but personally I don’t want him playing the position more than 8-10 mins a game.

[nate33]

Yes…watching these videos one of the things that has surprised/impressed me the most about J. Poole has been his handle. I had no idea it was that good.

Man, videos like this really get me excited. There's no better time than the offseason to be a Wizards fan!

Seriously though, you gotta respect how much Poole has worked on his game. His footwork and ball handling are really impressive. It'll be interesting to watch him as the #1 option in DC. Presumably, his efficiency will suffer a bit at first, but he's going to have plenty of opportunity to hone his game further. He has all the tools to be a top 20 player if he can put it all together.

I'm really intrigued with his ball handling. It's not a stretch at all to envision him as the primary ball-handler - a modern Gilbert Arenas. If we can ultimately move him to PG and put some tall wings who can pass around him, it will solve a lot of defensive problems.

I feel very differently about Poole eventually becoming the Zards PG. I think he best serves the Zards’ short and long-term needs as a SG.

I’m a big proponent of PGs whose core instinct is to involve teammates—putting them in the best position to help the team offensively. I don’t really see that as ever being one of Poole’s strengths.

Poole seems to me to be a flat out scorer and gunner. Someone whose mission (and role) is to aggressively look to score pretty much every time he touches the ball. It would diminish Poole’s impact on winning, imo, to ask him to take on the responsibilities associated with good PG play.

Sure JP can play some PG but personally I don’t want him playing the position more than 8-10 mins a game.

I hear you, but I think the NBA has changed quite a bit.

There really aren't too many "pure" PG's these days other than Haliburton and the ghost of Chris Paul. If you don't have a rare transcendent big wing like Luka, Giannis or Tatum, or an even rarer elite center (Jokic, Embiid, Davis) you need an elite backcourt scorer to carry the offensive load. I'm talking about guys like, Lillard SGA, Harden, Trae, Fox, Brunson, Morant, Mitchell, etc. The problem is, size is at a premium on defense, so teams can't afford to have two small guards in the lineup. So rather than pairing their diminutive scoring guard with another diminutive "pure PG", they just let their scoring guard bring the ball up so that they can surround them with rangy wing players.

The best case scenario is to find a rangy wing defender (or a center) who is also a real good passer to take some of the distribution responsibilities away from your combo/guard scorer - guys like Draymond, Giddy, Simmons (before the confidence issues), Jokic, Sabonis, Bam. We possibly have a guy who fits that mold in Deni.

[doclinkin]

I think the NBA has changed quite a bit.

There really aren't too many "pure" PG's these days other than Haliburton and the ghost of Chris Paul. If you don't have a rare transcendent big wing like Luka, Giannis or Tatum, or an even rarer elite center (Jokic, Embiid, Davis) you need an elite backcourt scorer to carry the offensive load. I'm talking about guys like, Lillard SGA, Harden, Trae, Fox, Brunson, Morant, Mitchell, etc. The problem is, size is at a premium on defense, so teams can't afford to have two small guards in the lineup. So rather than pairing their diminutive scoring guard with another diminutive "pure PG", they just let their scoring guard bring the ball up so that they can surround them with rangy wing players.

The best case scenario is to find a rangy wing defender (or a center) who is also a real good passer to take some of the distribution responsibilities away from your combo/guard scorer. I'm talking about guys like Draymond, Giddy, Simmons (before the confidence issues), Jokic, Sabonis, Bam. We possibly have a guy who fits that mold in Deni.

I'm not sure what the metagame is in the NBA nowadays. I have been saying since the tail end of the pace and space era that there will be a return to size. Long ranged shots equal more misses, which puts rebounding at a premium. If you can then score at a high % on the interior you can control the pace of smaller faster teams who rely on streakiness and runs to outgun opponents. I figured you do this best with giants in the middle, though with long range shots you need 2nd line rebounders who are equally greedy.

Kawhi's raptors won with that methodology (in a down-year for LeBJ, the transcendent talent of the era, with a nod to Stef as well). Rebound like a black hole. Score from 2pt range with every possession. Slow it down and reduce the total possessions. Though I submit they truly caught momentum when they swapped their limited ability interior Big (Valanciunas) for a smooth passing savvy defender with range (Marc Gasol, with his late career addition of a 3 pt shot).

That excited me, to re-imagine a renaissance for the giants, centered around a sweet passing Big with range. To my satisfaction Jokic began to do Jokic things. Giannis and Lopez similarly showed the ability to invert the court at the offensive end, and still remain big on defense. Those Coach Bud teams won the regular season with rebounding. Now most of the true powers have a savvy interior Big surrounded by switchable wings. Yes you can do little to slow down a player like Jokic who has an unblockable shot and ridiculous court vision. I wonder if the new breed of Unicorns will make a difference in being able to stick to him on the outside, but then they become vulnerable to him sliding down low and beating up on the skinnies with his bulk.

Which brings us back to an era of true Bigs. What magnified this in my eyes was the sudden emphasis on defense that snuffed some of the dribble-drive magicians who used the rules to their advantage. Bringing back a bit of bump and grime on the defense looked to presage a switch where small quick combo guards were no longer the dangerous weapon they had been. If they can no longer force fouls you can play up on them tight, they can't force you to flinch to give them room to get that jumper off. If you don't have Dame range, you are not getting those open shots by yourself any more. Teams will need timing and off ball motion and coaching, or really smart players with experience, to get those open shots. That suggests the need for a point guard again. The league has gotten away from it, but I believe they are creeping back in.

The shots that will still and always be high percentage will be those unstoppable giants on the low block. But the drift to long rangy defenders does make it trickier to find the passing angles to feed the monster. To counter you either need tall passers on the wing (cited above. Giddey, Simmons, etc) OR a mobile seige tower like Jokic, Bam, Horton, MGasol, etc. If you can't get one them you can select one of the few players who have the advanced footwork, ball-handling, superior game sense to break past the first line of defense and make the right choice from the chaos that results. A point guard. Players who know how to take advantage of their disadvantage in size. Use the traffic against itself. Exploit the spaces between players. Timing. Cunning.

I think we will see the counter to the era of inverted court Bigs may actually be the unicorns who can play tall ball and deny entry passes by defending with length even after they've been beat (Wemby, etc). Or failing that, given that unicorns are axiomatically very rare, by simply closing the lid on the basket with bigs bigs bigs.

And now that the league is hunting players for flopping, you will have to defend 'honestly'. Refs can wait for the next dead ball to apply a flopping penalty. That is plenty of time for the league offices to review by replay and whisper in their ear that a flop occurred. Tech FT awarded. I personally think it is stupid, but it will absolutely change how players defend. And attack. I think it means you will have to be forceful in your game. Offense and defense alike. Defenders will be emboldened to play tight, without fear of an attacker bouncing off them and flailing around. Attackers will have to actually create separation, from skill, misdirection, wizardry with their handle, or superior size and athleticism. Force them to hack you or grab to slow you down. Score despite contact. We are basically drifting back to the MJ era of big wing players and skilled guards.

In that skill set, absolutely having at least one unstoppable Big on your roster is a good idea. Even if they can't guard the outside shot. So long as you have rangy defenders who can switch and slow down the attack, you will be able to play a drop Big on the inside a few possessions a game, vs particular teams, and more importantly in the postseason where the games become a bit more of a demolition derby. Which is a reason why I have been advocating for snatching up a Zach Edey and various other Bigs late in the draft (Neemias Queta, I forget who else) they are undervalued right now, since teams are not yet conscious that our post season is slowly growing Kaiju sized again. Undervalued means at some point they get noticed and hunted.

And if big ball is ascendent then you absolutely need smart quick ballhandlers who can get them the rock. And coaches who can devise schemes to make it work.

[Frichuela]

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[payitforward]

H@ll, I'll be thrilled if he's a top 100 player next year! Top 20% of the league...? That's pretty good! & a long shot too....

Still, Poole has upside, no question about it.
He had a good '21-22 season: if he re-establishes that & surpasses it, there'll be reason to be happy.

[closg00]

Glowing praises from former teammates:

https://sports.yahoo.com/andre-iguodala-bluntly-told-jordan-175004988.html
https://www.nbcsportsbayarea.com/nba/golden-state-warriors/klay-thompson-jordan-poole-trade/1646537/

[Frichuela]

Glowing praises from former teammates:

https://sports.yahoo.com/andre-iguodala-bluntly-told-jordan-175004988.html
https://www.nbcsportsbayarea.com/nba/golden-state-warriors/klay-thompson-jordan-poole-trade/1646537/

Man. Exciting stuff. Wouldn’t it be grand if Poole was to become a top 25 player in the league. Let’s not forget, he is only 24 years old, same age as Kispert…

[doclinkin]

Ha!

Veteran forward Andre Iguodala, who mentored Poole during the 24-year-old's four-year Warriors career, believes despite what people might think, Poole had a solid 2022-23 season with Golden State. And Iguodala is sure Poole will top that performance in his first season with the Washington Wizards.

"He averaged 20 last year, on a bad year. He's going to get to the line. He's the only one who got to the line for us last year consistently," Iguodala said on the "Gil's Arena" podcast. "People act like he had a bad year. I'm like, 'OK, a bad year? Y'all blamed him for the year we had last year and he averaged 20.' [He will average] 25-plus, easy. He's going to get to the line.

"And then at home, you have to give him the whistle at home, he's going to average 30 at home. And it's Chocolate City, so you know who's going to be in the stands, they got all the memes. Every time he sees a bad chick, he's going for 40."


Another ex-teammate, Golden State sharpshooter Klay Thompson, sees All-Star potential for Poole.

But it takes more than talent to be successful in the NBA, and Iguodala isn't one to sugarcoat anything. He understood that it was difficult for Poole to shine on a team that consisted of Steph Curry, Thompson, Draymond Green and Andrew Wiggins. So when Poole was shipped to Washington D.C. in a blockbuster trade that brought future Hall of Fame point guard Chris Paul to the Bay, Iguodala kept it real with the young guard.

The four-time champion told Poole that he had to grow up now that he had his "own team," and that being the face of a franchise comes with a lot of responsibility. In Golden State, it wasn't something he necessarily had to worry about, but with the Wizards, it's a whole different story.

Iguodala, who still regularly keeps in contact with Poole, said he already has noticed a difference, though.

"He's already starting to make the right strides," Iguodala said. "I've heard about what he's been doing with his teammates. The other day, I was asking him about his teammates, and he knew everything about every one of them. And I'm like 'OK, now we starting off on the right path.'

"He brought them all out to LA. He did! He's leading."

[doclinkin]

1:39:42

Watch on YouTube

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[Skybox]

This guy has such a cloud over him and a tank situation might bring out the worst side of his game, but…

I wish ORL had the guts to grab him and hand him the keys. He’s as likely as anyone in the NBA to win the scoring title, imo. He’s got so much in his bag. He’s also known to be a hard worker and he’s been around champs his whole career. He’s not a jerk of a person either. If his bball maturity and efficiency ‘clicks’, he could be a real cornerstone for WAS. TMac was really promising in TOR but all world when he got the spotlight in ORL.

I might not bet on him, but I’m definitely not putting my money against him.

[doclinkin]

Just adding content and context:

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Contrary to reports that Jordan Poole doesn’t like being in Washington with the Wizards, the NBA Champion recently popped up at a gathering in LA with teammates Kyle Kuzma, Delon Wright and Landry Shamet while rocking a Washington Nationals fitted hat.

Kevin Durant was also present.

Poole said it was appropriate to rep DC:

“I’m already locked in with the District,”

[doclinkin]

I do think JPoole could contend for the scoring title here in DC.

We've seen a WUJ designed offense make a hero out of Agent Zero back in the day. Poole will be scoring options 1A through 1D on a team that lost it's top 2 scorers. The players surrounding him will be a pass-first PG, at SF a pass-dependent catch-and-shoot guy in Kispert, or with Deni he has a team oriented ball-mover who at times has been shy about scoring. At center he's got Gafford who pretty much only scores when bottle fed the ball, or on offensive put-backs. Then there's Kuzma, who will put up shots but can be pass-happy when chasing a triple double. Then most of the bench is pass dependent catch and shoot guys and short minute role-players. At the head of this we have a head coach who is not noted for a firm hand in reeling in trigger-happy gunslingers.

Not to mention how much fun it would be if Stef was his rival for the scoring title. No doubt he would raise his game trying to keep pace with his mentor.

I'm here for it. A chase for the scoring title elevates the Wiz to the national conversation. The Redemption storyline makes for good TV. I hope the attention Poole pulls will open up opportunities for efficient scoring by other players, especially with Tyus Jones to get them the ball when they are the better option. In that light I think Kispert might actually maintain his improbably efficient scoring numbers. I'm fine with everybody else on the squad playing team ball while Poole improvises and freelances. Yes it may irritate a few fans who might complain their favorite other Wizard is not being given sufficient touches or similar freedom. And we may lose more than a few of the one-on-five shootouts he engineers. I'm fine with that too. I think we can sneakily build a strong team behind Poole while folks are distracted by his offensive fireworks. I think when we can field a no-defense East Coast version of the Warriors, with Poole imitating Curry, Kispert playing a dollar store Klay Thompson, Deni as a discount Draymond. Regardless, it should be fun to see them try.

[doclinkin]

Watch on YouTube

(Slow day at work)

[nate33]

I do think JPoole could contend for the scoring title here in DC.

We've seen a WUJ designed offense make a hero out of Agent Zero back in the day. Poole will be scoring options 1A through 1D on a team that lost it's top 2 scorers. The players surrounding him will be a pass-first PG, at SF a pass-dependent catch-and-shoot guy in Kispert, or with Deni he has a team oriented ball-mover who at times has been shy about scoring. At center he's got Gafford who pretty much only scores when bottle fed the ball, or on offensive put-backs. Then there's Kuzma, who will put up shots but can be pass-happy when chasing a triple double. Then most of the bench is pass dependent catch and shoot guys and short minute role-players. At the head of this we have a head coach who is not noted for a firm hand in reeling in trigger-happy gunslingers.

Not to mention how much fun it would be if Stef was his rival for the scoring title. No doubt he would raise his game trying to keep pace with his mentor.

I'm here for it. A chase for the scoring title elevates the Wiz to the national conversation. The Redemption storyline makes for good TV. I hope the attention Poole pulls will open up opportunities for efficient scoring by other players, especially with Tyus Jones to get them the ball when they are the better option. In that light I think Kispert might actually maintain his improbably efficient scoring numbers. I'm fine with everybody else on the squad playing team ball while Poole improvises and freelances. Yes it may irritate a few fans who might complain their favorite other Wizard is not being given sufficient touches or similar freedom. And we may lose more than a few of the one-on-five shootouts he engineers. I'm fine with that too. I think we can sneakily build a strong team behind Poole while folks are distracted by his offensive fireworks. I think when we can field a no-defense East Coast version of the Warriors, with Poole imitating Curry, Kispert playing a dollar store Klay Thompson, Deni as a discount Draymond. Regardless, it should be fun to see them try.

This was also my logic in supporting the Kuzma resigning. Yeah, Kuzma and Poole are going to be jacking up some shots, probably with not-so-good efficiency, but the fact is, the rest of the players on this team aren't suited for high usage. Asking them to take on high usage will probably just result in them developing bad habits. Kuzma and Poole carrying the offense will allow Gafford, Avdija, Coulibaly and Kispert (GACK) to play the roles they're ultimately cut out to play. If any of the GACK foursome start showing signs of being able to take on more usage while maintaining efficiency, THEN we can have a discussion with Kuzma and Poole about dialing back the usage. Or we can just trade Kuzma.

[payitforward]

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This is a great session all the way through. Not just the section near the end about Poole. In fact, I especially recommend the last 15 minutes about NBA players and the world of investment & entrepreneurship.

An exceptionally entertaining, informative 2 hours with some really smart guys!
&, yeah, the basketball analysis is outstanding too.

[doclinkin]

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Kid was good in HS.

Irritating that we have to wait months to see highlights of new players in Wizards unis.

Funny to have both low expectations for the team, and yet to be restless to see how they play together.