If you took over as GM today, what would you do?

[miller31time]

If we're under the assumption Wall is a budding superstar (and whether it's true or not - that's our collective opinion), then we also have to understand that, with superstardom, we get special benefits - one of the most helpful being that we can plug a plethora of dead-eye shooters in our system and, because of Wall's penetration ability, they will have career years.

I'd be nervous committing 5+mil per year to Martell Webster. Not because he didn't produce but because I think we could get similar production from upcoming free agent sharp shooters, and that he has an injury history. I'm not worried about his play decreasing, though. Wall will find him his looks and he'll knock them down at a good rate.

Teams like San Antonio have the strategy perfected -- have a system in place and plug applicable players in.

[nate33]

If we're under the assumption Wall is a budding superstar (and whether it's true or not - that's our collective opinion), then we also have to understand that, with superstardom, we get special benefits - one of the most helpful being that we can plug a plethora of dead-eye shooters in our system and, because of Wall's penetration ability, they will have career years.

I'd be nervous committing 5+mil per year to Martell Webster. Not because he didn't produce but because I think we could get similar production from upcoming free agent sharp shooters, and that he has an injury history. I'm not worried about his play decreasing, though. Wall will find him his looks and he'll knock them down at a good rate.

Teams like San Antonio have the strategy perfected -- have a system in place and plug applicable players in.

This is a good point and one to consider when resigning Webster. Certainly, we shouldn't pay Webster Nicholas Batum type money. However, I think it's important not to overstate the effectiveness of the San Antonio model. San Antonio did in fact pay $3.75M a year to resign Danny Green. It's not like they had total confidence that he could be replaced for the vet minimum. And San Antonio has an advantage because they can sell the fact that they're contenders. That advantage has got to be worth a least a half-million a year or so. They also have no state income taxes in Texas.

If we assume that Webster is roughly as good as Green, we're going to have to pay a little more since we're not contenders and won't get the contender's discount. If we pay a $.50M premium because we are not contenders, plus another $.25M because of our higher tax rate, that puts Webster's price tag in the $4.5M a year range. That's pretty close to the full MLE. It's close enough that I won't be upset if we end up paying him the entire MLE.

[fishercob]

If we're under the assumption Wall is a budding superstar (and whether it's true or not - that's our collective opinion), then we also have to understand that, with superstardom, we get special benefits - one of the most helpful being that we can plug a plethora of dead-eye shooters in our system and, because of Wall's penetration ability, they will have career years.

I'd be nervous committing 5+mil per year to Martell Webster. Not because he didn't produce but because I think we could get similar production from upcoming free agent sharp shooters, and that he has an injury history. I'm not worried about his play decreasing, though. Wall will find him his looks and he'll knock them down at a good rate.

Teams like San Antonio have the strategy perfected -- have a system in place and plug applicable players in.

This is a good point and one to consider when resigning Webster. Certainly, we shouldn't pay Webster Nicholas Batum type money. However, I think it's important not to overstate the effectiveness of the San Antonio model. San Antonio did in fact pay $3.75M a year to resign Danny Green. It's not like they had total confidence that he could be replaced for the vet minimum. And San Antonio has an advantage because they can sell the fact that they're contenders. That advantage has got to be worth a least a half-million a year or so. They also have no state income taxes in Texas.

If we assume that Webster is roughly as good as Green, we're going to have to pay a little more since we're not contenders and won't get the contender's discount. If we pay a $.50M premium because we are not contenders, plus another $.25M because of our higher tax rate, that puts Webster's price tag in the $4.5M a year range. That's pretty close to the full MLE. It's close enough that I won't be upset if we end up paying him the entire MLE.

The premium assumes that Webster places no marginal economic value on staying with this organization and not having to move again. Webster will take less to play here, the question is just how much less? If he has an offer that's $10K higher to play in PHX, for instance, he'll stay. If he can get an additional $1M for 4 years to play with Dallas, he'll probably go.

[fishercob]

I wonder in the case of the unthinkable -- if we won the lottery and Minnesota decided to trade Kevin Love -- if Ted would pay the lux tax for a year to acquire him.

We could give them McLemore, Vesely, Seraphin and 2 firsts and I think the numbers would work.

We'd likely have to pay the tex, but would be very, very good. Then Ariza and Okafor come off the books. and we can reload with more economical options.

a frontcourt troika of Love/Nene/Okafor would be beastly, as any two could play together and be a nightmare on the boards. Add Wall, Beal, Webster, Ariza and a couple vets minimum guys and that team could make the conference finals.

[chocodog]

That the Blazers already have a top-12 protected 2014 pick out to Charlotte somewhat diminishes the likelihood of their also being able to give it to us.

Ya, I don't think that the blazers' have a 2014 pick to offer, nor do I see Okafor being worth much. 31 year old making nearly 15m. He does come off the books but that doesn't give him much value to a team like the blazers looking to add the final piece at center plus it would eat up all their cap space to fill their bench. I would still be interested in adding him b/c most other options will come at a premium but I don't see the wizards getting much of any assets for him.

If that upsets them then they can hold on to him and see if any teams get desperate at the trade deadline, but this would probably involve the wizards having to take back salary to get back assets. Would this organization be willing to do that or would they rather take a blazers offer that isn't rich in assets but offers cap relief. Of course, the wiz can just hold on to him and let him expire after the year.

some combo of filler pieces (the real draw being the instant cap relief)...

freeland/claver/cash/2nd rounder/future first

or if you guys have an interest in hickson, a s&t could be worked out

[penbeast0]

Okafor and Ariza expire simultaneously which is a pretty decent chunk of cap space to play with. Don't think it's as valuable partial cap space earlier. Now, if you were willing to give serious assets for Nene who is the better player for a potential contender . . .

[hands11]

I really want to make a play for the 2014 draft. Here's the best suggestions I've seen so far.

Nene to Nets for Humphries & Nets 2014 1st rounder

Okafor to Blazers for Matthews, Freeland, Jeffries & 2014 1st rounder

Our 2013 1st rounder (8th overall) for a 2014 unprotected 1st rounder (depends on team... potential to swap players as well)

Any of these moves would help offset what was, to me, a misguided strategy to acquire veterans. With additional picks, decent position, and decent drafting (yeah, I know that's a lot to hope for), young players would be joining a fairly veteran Wall, an apparently wise-beyond-his-years Beal, maybe Webster, and some other experienced and reasonably priced role players. That seems enough veteran depth to grow with.

That was helped by bringing the vets they brought here.

I think they made the right move doing it. It was worth the risk. They needed to get things established and turned around. Its hard for young players to pull a franchise up on their own. Specially one that was a messed up as this one post Gilgate. Having Nene, Okafor, Trevor A and Webster here helped Wall and Beal a lot. Drafting a mature beyond his years talented Beal helped a ton as well. He is clearly a core long term piece.

They got a lot accomplished this year. They set the tone of the locker room. They cleaned up some more excesses projects to focus on the ones that really count. They established themselves as a never say die defensive team of starters that play both sides of the floor. They installed a team passing offense vs iso ala NY.

I think Wall and Beal are another year or two of seasoning away from being able to pull this train on their own. And thats why I never understood why people freaked so much. They are so young. In two years they will be 22 and 24. And that is in two years. And even then, they will need vets around them. Its just they can be younger vets.

Gotta keep the big picture in mind. Its about growing these two, finding the 3rd and filling out the support depth. Having some vets around helps in doing that. Specially if it helps them get playoff experience. That is what they need to grow even more. And the fact that they got vet on only two year deal that are 7M and 13M trade assets if needed is good. Specially when you got them by moving a single boat anchor contract that you got by moving an even bigger boat anchor contract.

On the flip side, they totally blow the 2011 draft. Huge black eye on that one.

This is what I posted many moons ago and we went back and forth over. It was not a dead end approach. Sure they could have gone a different direction and things could have worked out better. Or worse. Lots of speculation about what they could have done. Point is/was, this was not a dead end. And we see that in the fact that people are still posting via options to move forward.

Wall worked out.
Beal was the right pick, not MKG or others.
Webster worked out. So did Trevor A and Okafor.
And Nene has shown some signs. Now we need to answer that question after he finally rests this offseason.

And now they have raised the bar for Kevin S, Ves, Booker and Singleton. We have to see if they can jump over it. If not, moving on. At a min, Booker, when healthy, seems like a decent pick. Kevin was a good project even if we don't keep him. He is talented. Just not sure whats between his ears is the right fit. Just doesn't have enough edge/drive/focus... whatever it is. But he is young also. Its do or die time for him.

Lots on the horizon with Nene, Okafor, Trevor A and Webster. Lets hope that navigate it well.

Hell, it may still end up they resign both Trevor A and Okafor for cheaper and fill in younger future players behind them.

[hands11]

Question.

So our Mr Dray made some comment about not being worried about signing for much because he is still on the Wizards dime.

Well that is true for two more years. So what would it look like if someone offered him a 3 year deal. Could they give him the vet min for two years and then 6M the third year ? Would Dray be willing to sign only a two year deal if there was a three year deal on the table ?

Or would the salary need to be with in a curtain percentage of the previous year such that it would force years one and two to be higher if he wants something good in year three ?

If so, hopefully we get some relief from the 7.8 and 8.4 that he is owed. Even cutting that in half would be nice.

[Liverbird]

Wow Hands. I lurk here all the time but post infrequently, and despite what it may do to my non-existent reputation, I agree with pretty much everything you've said.

If we resign Martell (and I hope we do) I think we have enough veterans or perhaps trade the entire 2011 draft class for a skilled big to help Nene and draft a replacement this year. I like what we'll start next season with at SF and Ariza gives us flexibility. Martell can also play SG. CJM would also look good on this team.

[LyricalRico]

Bump for deneem.

[deneem4]

In my dream of a dynasty

1....Ariza booker, seraphin to bulls...for rich and taj....y? Rich useless ariza great deng backup, tom thibs like a booker type player, rose and noah ah make seraphin into nba player
2.....Nene to nets for humpries/watson.....y? Gets nene off our books
3....Okafor/3rd to bucks for ersan 15th pick/2nd rd....y? Give wall an established stretch 4 and a top 15 pick
4.....2nd rds to mavs for marion, 13th pick...add otto porter dad(marion)and another pick

Wall/watson
Beal/(shabazz)mavs
Webster/marion/ves
Ersan/gibson/singleton
Humpries/dieng or olynyk (bucks)

Make it to conference finals???

Let everyone unwanted expire
Sign cousins
Sign some vets

Wall/watson
Beal/shabazz
Ersan/webster/vet
Gibson/2014 pick/vet
Cousins/dieng or olynyk

Win a championship

[nate33]

That Dallas trade is impossible. We don't have the cap room to absorb Marion. And they wouldn't make the trade without getting a future 1st in return.

Your Milwaukee trade doesn't make sense either. I know there were rumors about involving Okafor, but it was illogical from the perspective of both teams. Just make it #3 plus Ernie's Kids for Ilyasova. At least that way, we keep at least one functional center for next year rather than trying to make do with Humphries and a rookie Dieng.

I don't understand the desire to add both Ilyasova and Gibson. They play the same position and each earns about $8M. You compound the problem further by adding Marion (but as I pointed out, that's impossible so we don't have to discuss that part further).

I'd have to run the numbers, but I don't think we'd have the cap room to sign Cousins to a max contract if we have Ilyasova, Gibson, Webster and Wall on the books (plus all the draft picks). At any rate, I think counting on adding Cousins in free agency is a pretty tenuous plan.

[deneem4]

Illy at 3 with taj and cousins would be the most versatile frontcourt...they play the same posititon but are exact opposites and together make up fir each other short comings perfectly

Yea I kno that mavs trade highly unlikely
But gettin nene off the books should b 1 priority. ..
Humpries can play center, u can't blame him for this yr, b4 that he was putting up good $s

Cousins would be easy ti grab in free agency, he'll get some ok offers but with oka nene and ariza singleton off the books we can afford him even with wall max and ersan price..

[Ruzious]

This is what I'm thinking I would do if I took over - other than firing everyone in the front office and replacing most with posters from RealGM:

Trade down about 4 spots - picking up a future protected 1st - and pick Zeller.

Trade next year's 1st (top 10 protected) and our high 2nd rounder to either OKC (12) or Dallas (13) and pick McCollum (I think he does slide there - notice he's talking about fitting in at Utah who picks 14th).

Use the late 2nd on Ryan Kelly and lock him in a gym all summer with a top personal trainer.

Use the MLE to re-sign Webster (3 years) and Price (1 year)

Keep cap room available for next summer. Don't commit to keeping any of Ernie's kids unless I'm convinced the light has gone on for them - which I don't plan on happening. That leaves EG's kids plus:

1 Wall, Price, Temple
2 Beal, McCollum
3 Webster, Ariza
4 Nene, Zeller, Kelly (ok, put Kelly in the D League and keep Booker active when healthy)
5 Okafor, Nene

And the next offseason, I have my RealGM staff make me look good finding the best use of all that cap money - with Okafor, Ariza, and the kids coming off the books. I take the credit and the salary.

[nate33]

This is what I'm thinking I would do if I took over - other than firing everyone in the front office and replacing most with posters from RealGM:

Trade down about 4 spots - picking up a future protected 1st - and pick Zeller.

Trade next year's 1st (top 10 protected) and our high 2nd rounder to either OKC (12) or Dallas (13) and pick McCollum (I think he does slide there - notice he's talking about fitting in at Utah who picks 14th).

Use the late 2nd on Ryan Kelly and lock him in a gym all summer with a top personal trainer.

Use the MLE to re-sign Webster (3 years) and Price (1 year)

Keep cap room available for next summer. Don't commit to keeping any of Ernie's kids unless I'm convinced the light has gone on for them - which I don't plan on happening. That leaves EG's kids plus:

1 Wall, Price, Temple
2 Beal, McCollum
3 Webster, Ariza
4 Nene, Zeller, Kelly (ok, put Kelly in the D League and keep Booker active when healthy)
5 Okafor, Nene

And the next offseason, I have my RealGM staff make me look good finding the best use of all that cap money - with Okafor, Ariza, and the kids coming off the books. I take the credit and the salary.

That's a pretty good plan, Ruzious.

The only real long term issue is that we lack a young center, but I suppose you can't fix everything in one summer. I'm not sure I'd use that #12/13 pick on McCollum. I might use it on Adams instead. Maybe we could follow up by trading Seraphin for a respectable veteran combo guard.

[Upper Decker]

If we assume that Webster is roughly as good as Green, we're going to have to pay a little more since we're not contenders and won't get the contender's discount. If we pay a $.50M premium because we are not contenders, plus another $.25M because of our higher tax rate, that puts Webster's price tag in the $4.5M a year range. That's pretty close to the full MLE. It's close enough that I won't be upset if we end up paying him the entire MLE.

Calling all income tax savants!

When a player, such as Danny Green, lives in a income tax free state, isn't he still taxed on the $$'s he makes when playing outside of Texas. Such as when Danny Green plays on the road in Miami, he's earning a check for that game, he's technically an employee providing labor for the Spurs, and I'm sure his wages earned out of state exceed some immaterial threshold for not filing. (Miami may be a bad example because they're also a tax free state, but you get my point).

As such, don't professional athletes pay state taxes in pretty much every state they play games in because their salary is so high? If that's the case and a professional athlete earns roughly 60% of their salary in state, and 40% of their salary on the road the difference in savings isn't that great. Although I could be wrong so someone smarter than me set me straight, please!

[verbal8]

It depends. Basically the income taxing states have some mechanism for taxing the income of visiting athletes.

Probably more than you wanted to know on the subject:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenha ... -tax-code/

If we assume that Webster is roughly as good as Green, we're going to have to pay a little more since we're not contenders and won't get the contender's discount. If we pay a $.50M premium because we are not contenders, plus another $.25M because of our higher tax rate, that puts Webster's price tag in the $4.5M a year range. That's pretty close to the full MLE. It's close enough that I won't be upset if we end up paying him the entire MLE.

Calling all income tax savants!

When a player, such as Danny Green, lives in a income tax free state, isn't he still taxed on the $$'s he makes when playing outside of Texas. Such as when Danny Green plays on the road in Miami, he's earning a check for that game, he's technically an employee providing labor for the Spurs, and I'm sure his wages earned out of state exceed some immaterial threshold for not filing. (Miami may be a bad example because they're also a tax free state, but you get my point).

As such, don't professional athletes pay state taxes in pretty much every state they play games in because their salary is so high? If that's the case and a professional athlete earns roughly 60% of their salary in state, and 40% of their salary on the road the difference in savings isn't that great. Although I could be wrong so someone smarter than me set me straight, please!

[rockymac52]

It depends. Basically the income taxing states have some mechanism for taxing the income of visiting athletes.

Probably more than you wanted to know on the subject:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenha ... -tax-code/

If we assume that Webster is roughly as good as Green, we're going to have to pay a little more since we're not contenders and won't get the contender's discount. If we pay a $.50M premium because we are not contenders, plus another $.25M because of our higher tax rate, that puts Webster's price tag in the $4.5M a year range. That's pretty close to the full MLE. It's close enough that I won't be upset if we end up paying him the entire MLE.

Calling all income tax savants!

When a player, such as Danny Green, lives in a income tax free state, isn't he still taxed on the $$'s he makes when playing outside of Texas. Such as when Danny Green plays on the road in Miami, he's earning a check for that game, he's technically an employee providing labor for the Spurs, and I'm sure his wages earned out of state exceed some immaterial threshold for not filing. (Miami may be a bad example because they're also a tax free state, but you get my point).

As such, don't professional athletes pay state taxes in pretty much every state they play games in because their salary is so high? If that's the case and a professional athlete earns roughly 60% of their salary in state, and 40% of their salary on the road the difference in savings isn't that great. Although I could be wrong so someone smarter than me set me straight, please!

It's worth noting that Washington DC is one of a very select few NBA cities that does NOT tax visiting athletes. Not entirely sure why, maybe related to all of the politicians from other states that have to come to DC for work so often, maybe a completely different reason, who knows?

[Ruzious]

This is what I'm thinking I would do if I took over - other than firing everyone in the front office and replacing most with posters from RealGM:

Trade down about 4 spots - picking up a future protected 1st - and pick Zeller.

Trade next year's 1st (top 10 protected) and our high 2nd rounder to either OKC (12) or Dallas (13) and pick McCollum (I think he does slide there - notice he's talking about fitting in at Utah who picks 14th).

Use the late 2nd on Ryan Kelly and lock him in a gym all summer with a top personal trainer.

Use the MLE to re-sign Webster (3 years) and Price (1 year)

Keep cap room available for next summer. Don't commit to keeping any of Ernie's kids unless I'm convinced the light has gone on for them - which I don't plan on happening. That leaves EG's kids plus:

1 Wall, Price, Temple
2 Beal, McCollum
3 Webster, Ariza
4 Nene, Zeller, Kelly (ok, put Kelly in the D League and keep Booker active when healthy)
5 Okafor, Nene

And the next offseason, I have my RealGM staff make me look good finding the best use of all that cap money - with Okafor, Ariza, and the kids coming off the books. I take the credit and the salary.

That's a pretty good plan, Ruzious.

The only real long term issue is that we lack a young center, but I suppose you can't fix everything in one summer. I'm not sure I'd use that #12/13 pick on McCollum. I might use it on Adams instead. Maybe we could follow up by trading Seraphin for a respectable veteran combo guard.

Thanks. I'd have no problem with going for a center there - and it's a good backup plan if McCollum isn't there. I prefer McCollum, because he's a good value there that fills 2 needs - a big-time efficient scorer off the bench and a 3rd guard - assuming he can develop PG skills. I don't know where he's going to go in the draft - anywhere from 5 (NBAdraft.net just pushed him up there) to 14.

[Ruzious]

It depends. Basically the income taxing states have some mechanism for taxing the income of visiting athletes.

Probably more than you wanted to know on the subject:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenha ... -tax-code/

Calling all income tax savants!

When a player, such as Danny Green, lives in a income tax free state, isn't he still taxed on the $$'s he makes when playing outside of Texas. Such as when Danny Green plays on the road in Miami, he's earning a check for that game, he's technically an employee providing labor for the Spurs, and I'm sure his wages earned out of state exceed some immaterial threshold for not filing. (Miami may be a bad example because they're also a tax free state, but you get my point).

As such, don't professional athletes pay state taxes in pretty much every state they play games in because their salary is so high? If that's the case and a professional athlete earns roughly 60% of their salary in state, and 40% of their salary on the road the difference in savings isn't that great. Although I could be wrong so someone smarter than me set me straight, please!

It's worth noting that Washington DC is one of a very select few NBA cities that does NOT tax visiting athletes. Not entirely sure why, maybe related to all of the politicians from other states that have to come to DC for work so often, maybe a completely different reason, who knows?

They would if they could. The reason they don't is - DC is not permitted to tax non-residents. That's why DC doesn't even have a non-resident tax form for individuals. For fellow tax geeks - DC effectively does tax non-residents who own partnership and S Corp interests that do business in DC. There was a court case (Bender) several years ago trying to fight that, but it ultimately failed.