Official Trade Thread Part XLVI

[nate33]

...Winger is so focused on the future that ...it makes following the team moot. There’s nothing to see....

This is certainly an understandable POV, but I don't share it all the same.

IMO, if we can see a lot of minutes from Omoruyi & Bilal, if Butler gets 15-20 minutes per game, if PBJ gets something close to that, if Johnny Davis gets regular minutes, & if Isaiah Livers sees the floor once he's healthy... if all or most of that transpires, & if Bagley gets the major opportunity he seems almost certain to get, then I'll be interested to watch the team no matter how lousy we are certain to be in the present tense sense of wins this season.

Right now, btw, we are at 14 players, meaning that we are going to be adding someone soon. Will we promote Butler to a regular contract (& then, obviously, add another 2-way player)? Will there be an interesting young guy who pops loose post-deadline? Or...?

Those guys with the exception of one are all guys that they have essentially renounced. They have. They aren’t part of the future, they’re not being built around. Winger has been very clear that the future doesn’t really start now.

So, why watch? Why invest in players they aren’t investing in. I like Deni and Bilal and Kispert. That’s 1/4 of the team. That’s the only reason to watch.

They have renounced 3/4 of their team, yet they continue to sell tickets and to broadcast games and to hype product.

I wish they would say, “Look, fans. This is ugly. We made it ugly. That’s on us. We think it’ll have a happy outcome. But for now, it’s awful. And we know it is. We wouldn’t watch, either. So, go and read some great books and cook good food and take some trips and we’ll reach back out again in a couple years — when we haven’t renounced 3/4 of our time. When, although we’re not competitive, we’re at least trying to field a real team. Thanks for being there. Love ya.”

I’m not against a tear-down, btw. I’m for it.

But I can also allow that what they’re doing is a sham. It’s what’s allowed, I get it, they’re “smart“ to be doing it — but it’s so obvious and awful.

I honestly don't see what you are upset about. You are in favor of a rebuild. You agree that it's the smart move. Do you really expect them to not bother marketing the team? As long as the players and coaches are honestly trying to win every game (and I think they are), I don't see the problem.

[DCZards]

I wish they would say, “Look, fans. This is ugly. We made it ugly. That’s on us. We think it’ll have a happy outcome. But for now, it’s awful. And we know it is. We wouldn’t watch, either. So, go and read some great books and cook good food and take some trips and we’ll reach back out again in a couple years — when we haven’t renounced 3/4 of our time.

I’m not against a tear-down, btw. I’m for it.

But I can also allow that what they’re doing is a sham. It’s what’s allowed, I get it, they’re “smart“ to be doing it — but it’s so obvious and awful.

Yes, it’s obvious and awful…as we were pretty much told it was going to be. But I’m not about to abandon my team at its lowest and jump on the bandwagon when it starts rolling.

I’m at the game right now and will continue to be here most nights.

[tontoz]

I am perfectly fine with a full rebuild. I think this is a lot better than making short term win now moves and then failing to win over and over ad nauseum.

[tleikheen]

Kristaps Porzingis ...... 34 pts /11 rebs in 33min ...... Bradley Beal ....... 30 pts/7assists in 37 min ...... Rui Hachimura 21 pts/5rebs in 37 min ...... Daniel Gafford ..... 19 pts/9 rebs in 17 min ..... all in their last game played

Now all of them looking good on playoff fighting teams ..........while the Wizards ,SMH

[nate33]

Kristaps Porzingis ...... 34 pts /11 rebs in 33min ...... Bradley Beal ....... 30 pts/7assists in 37 min ...... Rui Hachimura 21 pts/5rebs in 37 min ...... Daniel Gafford ..... 19 pts/9 rebs in 17 min ..... all in their last game played

Now all of them looking good on playoff fighting teams ..........while the Wizards ,SMH

Rui is averaging 11 points and 3.7 boards in LA. The team is only playing .500 ball despite Lebron and Davis being healthy. I feel no regret at all.

Beal is being paid $50M a year to score 19 points a game on a TS% of .580. Heck, Corey Kispert is scoring at the same rate per minute on much better efficiency.

Gafford was good here. And he is good in Dallas. But he is still a below-average starting center. He was never going to be the starting center of the Wizards 4 years from now, so it made sense to trade him while his value was highest.

Porzingis is awesome. We knew that. The problem is, he didn't want to stick around for a rebuild. There's not much you can do when a player with a player option in his contract doesn't want to stick around.

[tleikheen]

Rui is averaging 11 points and 3.7 boards in LA. The team is only playing .500 ball despite Lebron and Davis being healthy. I feel no regret at all.

Beal is being paid $50M a year to score 19 points a game on a TS% of .580. Heck, Corey Kispert is scoring at the same rate per minute on much better efficiency.

Gafford was good here. And he is good in Dallas. But he is still a below-average starting center. He was never going to be the starting center of the Wizards 4 years from now, so it made sense to trade him while his value was highest.

Porzingis is awesome. We knew that. The problem is, he didn't want to stick around for a rebuild. There's not much you can do when a player with a player option in his contract doesn't want to stick around.

By a guy who stat watches over watching games ....... Suns .Lakers.Celtics,and now the Mavs have to feel like they got the gift that keeps on giving ....... keep up your stat watching though if it makes you feel better than what is actually happening with last years Wizard's players.

[gesa2]

What were our records the last 2 years again? I seem to be forgetting that year of high level winning we must have had with all of these great players

[payitforward]

...Winger is so focused on the future that ...it makes following the team moot. There’s nothing to see....

This is certainly an understandable POV, but I don't share it all the same.
..minutes from Omoruyi & Bilal, if Butler gets 15-20 minutes per game, if PBJ gets something close to that, if Johnny Davis gets regular minutes, & if Isaiah Livers sees the floor once he's healthy... & if Bagley gets the major opportunity he seems almost certain to get, then I'll be interested to watch the team no matter how lousy we are certain to be in the present tense sense of wins this season....

Those guys with the exception of one are all guys that they have essentially renounced. They have. They aren’t part of the future....

I don't follow the above. Depending on how they play, any one (or all) of the above can make themselves "part of the future."

Omoruyi & Butler, in particular, represent the kind of story I like -- & suspect we all do. They have overcome obstacles of different kinds & are fighting for their professional futures. I have no trouble identifying with them & rooting for them!

In Bagley's case, I don't have a lot of confidence that he will ever justify his pick position, but so what? He still has the opportunity to establish himself as a solid pro -- he's not even 25 yet!

I like Deni and Bilal and Kispert. That’s 1/4 of the team. That’s the only reason to watch.

? Tyus is playing very well. Bagley has been quite good so far. Butler has shown a lot in the minutes he gets (needs to get more) as has Omoruyi (ditto on more minutes).

They have renounced 3/4 of their team, yet they continue to sell tickets and to broadcast games and to hype product.

I wish they would say, “Look, fans. This is ugly. We made it ugly. That’s on us. We think it’ll have a happy outcome. But for now, it’s awful. And we know it is. We wouldn’t watch, either. So, go and read some great books and cook good food and take some trips and we’ll reach back out again in a couple years — when we haven’t renounced 3/4 of our time. When, although we’re not competitive, we’re at least trying to field a real team. Thanks for being there. Love ya.”

C',mon my brother! What team is going to do anything like that?

I’m not against a tear-down, btw. I’m for it.

I know. &, obviously, it's exactly what was needed.

I can also allow that what they’re doing is a sham. It’s what’s allowed, I get it, they’re “smart“ to be doing it — but it’s so obvious and awful.

That's pure attitude on your part -- to which, obviously, you have a perfect right.
But I would never use those terms. Painful? To be sure. But it's what we have to go through!

[payitforward]

Rui is averaging 11 points and 3.7 boards in LA. The team is only playing .500 ball despite Lebron and Davis being healthy. I feel no regret at all.

Beal is being paid $50M a year to score 19 points a game on a TS% of .580. Heck, Corey Kispert is scoring at the same rate per minute on much better efficiency.

Gafford was good here. And he is good in Dallas. But he is still a below-average starting center. He was never going to be the starting center of the Wizards 4 years from now, so it made sense to trade him while his value was highest.

Porzingis is awesome. We knew that. The problem is, he didn't want to stick around for a rebuild. There's not much you can do when a player with a player option in his contract doesn't want to stick around.

By a guy who stat watches over watching games ....... Suns .Lakers.Celtics,and now the Mavs have to feel like they got the gift that keeps on giving ....... keep up your stat watching though if it makes you feel better than what is actually happening with last years Wizard's players.

Dude... it's hard to put up with a person who's only POV is that he knows everything. You're just going to wind up on everyone's "Ignore" list.

I'd say that nate33 knows more about basketball than pretty much anyone posting on this board. He has a far deeper understanding of the game than I do, that's for sure.

In my case, I have a far longer history of watching basketball at every level than anyone on this board. Certainly way more extensive than yours, that's for sure too.

To take a simple example, I actually watched Bill Russell play. When he was a college player at USF! H*ll, when I was a little kid I watched George Mikan !! He played for the Minneapolis Lakers -- ever heard of them?

[nate33]

Rui is averaging 11 points and 3.7 boards in LA. The team is only playing .500 ball despite Lebron and Davis being healthy. I feel no regret at all.

Beal is being paid $50M a year to score 19 points a game on a TS% of .580. Heck, Corey Kispert is scoring at the same rate per minute on much better efficiency.

Gafford was good here. And he is good in Dallas. But he is still a below-average starting center. He was never going to be the starting center of the Wizards 4 years from now, so it made sense to trade him while his value was highest.

Porzingis is awesome. We knew that. The problem is, he didn't want to stick around for a rebuild. There's not much you can do when a player with a player option in his contract doesn't want to stick around.

By a guy who stat watches over watching games ....... Suns .Lakers.Celtics,and now the Mavs have to feel like they got the gift that keeps on giving ....... keep up your stat watching though if it makes you feel better than what is actually happening with last years Wizard's players.

By a guy who cherry picks stats from one night to make a totally incorrect argument about whether trades were lopsided or not.

I didn't see you post much in December when Beal had missed 24 of the first 30 games due to injury. I didn't see you post the day before yesterday night after Rui scored 2 points and grabbed 4 rebounds in 37 minutes against Denver.

[payitforward]

As to Rui, in fairness he is definitely a bit better this year than he's ever been. &, because he's playing more 3 & less 4 than in the past, his production is closer to average than ever.

OTOH, is he as good as an "average" NBA combo forward? No, though he's pretty close.

[doclinkin]

I think this is my biggest gripe with the deadline is we have three guys that are stilling going to want the ball in their hands a lot. It's my hope that Kuz is moved sometime between the draft and next year's deadline. Jones I think I could stomach resigning for the right deal if either Kuz or Poole was moved.

I'm having a hard time understanding this narrative that Tyus Jones' presence is somehow bad for the development of our young guys. Tyus doesn't take shots unless he has too. His goal is to set up others. And he also has the ability to play off ball if they want to run the offense through Deni.

The only way Tyus would be bad is if we draft a top PG prospect with our lotto pick. And in that scenario, my guess is that we don't retain Tyus. Or if we do, It would be as a mentor for just one year. The contract would probably be constructed like Bruce Brown's deal (overpay him on a 1+1 deal with the second year a Team Option.)

This. And even if our FRP is a PG, Tyus would be fine.

I think Tyus would be an incredible mentor for an incoming PG.

Castle isn't strictly a Point, but I think he has a seriousness about him where he would be receptive to veteran tips from Jones. And could be developed into a true PG. With really good size. Strength. The places where Tyus will never catch up give Castle a base that if he even develops half of Jone's skill game, he has a chance to be really quite good.

Topic and Reed Sheppard both seem ideally suited to apprentice from him. Instinctive natural players who have a sense of the moment. Sheppard in particular. Neither he nor Jones are the hyperquick PGs with that blow-by speed, or tricksy craftsy handles, they just both have efficient games. Reed maintains that at the Defensive side as well, and like Tyus shoots efficiently from outside. Seems like if he picked up floor management tips from Tyus he would have a head start in the league.

Likewise Juan Nunez in rd 2.

[tleikheen]

Dude... it's hard to put up with a person who's only POV is that he knows everything. You're just going to wind up on everyone's "Ignore" list.

I'd say that nate33 knows more about basketball than pretty much anyone posting on this board. He has a far deeper understanding of the game than I do, that's for sure.

In my case, I have a far longer history of watching basketball at every level than anyone on this board. Certainly way more extensive than yours, that's for sure too.

Thats ok ,i hate old guys that try to talk down to other old guys like they know more and seen more but obviously havent . Nobody disputes your old and have seen lots of basketball but acting like your the only mature man that has seen Russell ,Wilt and Jerry West and them HOF players makes you the ignorant blowhard .Go ahead stick to your old guy criticisms to another old guy ,obviously you dont have much respect for other guys who go way back to the players you mention.

[9 and 20]

Rest of the year, I'm rooting for failure for all the teams that didn't pony up for Kuzma. Also failure for the rest of the teams, of course. Basically, whatever ups the chances for a good Kuzma trade in the offseason. Need those first round picks and need to make sure the tank remains in tiptop shape.

[payitforward]

Dude... it's hard to put up with a person who's only POV is that he knows everything. You're just going to wind up on everyone's "Ignore" list.

I'd say that nate33 knows more about basketball than pretty much anyone posting on this board. He has a far deeper understanding of the game than I do, that's for sure.

In my case, I have a far longer history of watching basketball at every level than anyone on this board. Certainly way more extensive than yours, that's for sure too.

Thats ok ,i hate old guys that try to talk down to other old guys like they know more and seen more but obviously havent . Nobody disputes your old and have seen lots of basketball but acting like your the only mature man that has seen Russell ,Wilt and Jerry West and them HOF players makes you the ignorant blowhard .Go ahead stick to your old guy criticisms to another old guy ,obviously you dont have much respect for other guys who go way back to the players you mention.

Wow....
Ok you win.... Onto "Ignore" you go!

[gambitx777]

Rui is averaging 11 points and 3.7 boards in LA. The team is only playing .500 ball despite Lebron and Davis being healthy. I feel no regret at all.

Beal is being paid $50M a year to score 19 points a game on a TS% of .580. Heck, Corey Kispert is scoring at the same rate per minute on much better efficiency.

Gafford was good here. And he is good in Dallas. But he is still a below-average starting center. He was never going to be the starting center of the Wizards 4 years from now, so it made sense to trade him while his value was highest.

Porzingis is awesome. We knew that. The problem is, he didn't want to stick around for a rebuild. There's not much you can do when a player with a player option in his contract doesn't want to stick around.

By a guy who stat watches over watching games ....... Suns .Lakers.Celtics,and now the Mavs have to feel like they got the gift that keeps on giving ....... keep up your stat watching though if it makes you feel better than what is actually happening with last years Wizard's players.

This is like why did my steak taste bad when I dipped it in vanilla frosting.

Porz is the 4th best player on his team.
Beal is the 3ed
Ryi might be the 4th maybe the 5th, if not the 6th best player on the team.

Of course they look better they are on much much much better teams. With much better players around them. Porz didn't wanna be here and we got a huge haul for a player who was leaving. Beal **** us on his way out with a tampering case that will eventually go down as the worst in history. Rui isn't and doesn't really wanna be a basketball player.

Gaff was good for a back up but he's a back up he's never gonna be a starter. They Mavs sign bad contracts ever year and spend picks to fix it. That's just another case of this.



Sent from my SM-G991U1 using RealGM mobile app

[payitforward]

gamby -- don't let this unpleasant fellow's negativity affect you. If you engage with tleikheen, all he does is get more negative & start being insulting.

Some people are just like that. & snce he contributes nothing positive, it's simplest just to put him on "Ignore." You obviously won't miss anything interesting or useful!

KP ia having a good year, & I'm happy for him. Rui has improved somewhat, & that's a good thing: no reason not to applaud the fact. & I hope Brad gets his numbers up -- in fact, I hope he closes out his career in stellar fashion over the next few years. Why not?

[penbeast0]

Dude... it's hard to put up with a person who's only POV is that he knows everything. You're just going to wind up on everyone's "Ignore" list.

I'd say that nate33 knows more about basketball than pretty much anyone posting on this board. He has a far deeper understanding of the game than I do, that's for sure.

In my case, I have a far longer history of watching basketball at every level than anyone on this board. Certainly way more extensive than yours, that's for sure too.

Thats ok ,i hate old guys that try to talk down to other old guys like they know more and seen more but obviously havent . Nobody disputes your old and have seen lots of basketball but acting like your the only mature man that has seen Russell ,Wilt and Jerry West and them HOF players makes you the ignorant blowhard .Go ahead stick to your old guy criticisms to another old guy ,obviously you dont have much respect for other guys who go way back to the players you mention.

I remember telling that Jimmy Naismith that the whole throw the ball into peach baskets thing was fine for winter exercise but once the sun comes out, everyone is going back to baseball, boxing, and horse racing. The idea of getting two points for each make but one point for throwing it in after a foul, what's next, three for a long shot?

[NYG]

1. What player options, cap holds, etc. roster info am I missing?
2. Who are you keeping that I don't have their cap hold or guaranteed contract?
3. Who are you letting go of that I have on the roster?

Wizards
Jordan Poole $29,651,786
Kyle Kuzma $23,522,727
Deni Avdija $15,625,000
Richaun Holmes $12,876,780
Marvin Bagley III $12,500,000
Bilal Coulibaly $6,945,240
Corey Kispert $5,705,888
Johnny Davis $5,291,160
Patrick Baldwin Jr. $2,448,840
Ryan Rollins Dead Cap $600,000
Tyus Jones Cap Hold $21,000,000
2nd Overall Pick $11,358,720

Total Salary $147,526,141
Cap Space -$6,694,965
Tax Space $25,073,859
1st Apron Space $32,073,859
2nd Apron Space $42,573,859
Roster Spots Filled 11
Cap Holds $1,168,824


Wizards Questions
1. How much will Tyus Jones sign for?

[nate33]

Wizards Questions
1. How much will Tyus Jones sign for?

I posted this a couple of days ago:

I suspect Tyus will be resigned, and I don't think it will cost too much. I think this Trade Deadline demonstrated that there isn't a huge demand out there for Tyus as a starter. People want him as a backup and aren't willing to break the bank to get him. I figure the best offer out there will be the MLE, and probably not for a full 4 years.

A 3-year MLE contract with 5% raises pays him $12.8, $13.5 and $14.1M over the next 3 years respectively for a total of $40.4M. I figure we can offer him a 3-year $42M deal and a starting role and that will beat all other offers. Also, a 3-year deal has his contract expire alongside Poole's (and Kuzma's if he lasts that long) which will likely set us up for a max free agent in 2027 to add to our developing rookie contract squad. Frontload the deal with 8% salary declines each year and it will look like this: $15.2M, $14.0M, $12.8M. In two years, that $12.8M salary will be just 80% of the MLE, which is equivalent to a $9.9M contract today. That should make him pretty tradeable.