Official Trade Thread XV: 12/22/10 - 5/3/11

[Ruzious]

I'm not giving up Young to acquire the right to pay a 28-year-old Nene $11M+ a year.

I would - in a heartbeat - especially considering we might have to over-pay to keep Young.

I might, but the age thing bothers me a bit. Given that we are rebuilding, I don't like giving up a young player for a player who will be on his downside in 3 years.

If we're trading for Nene, why not Blatche, Hinrich and McGee instead of Young. McGee would be a lot less valuable to us with Nene taking his minutes.

Wall
Young
Nene
Kanter, Derrick Williams or Sullinger
Lewis/Thornton

That would at least be an average lineup in the East and good for a low playoff seed. I'd rather see Wilson Chandler at the 3.

In any case, I don't see Denver moving NeNe, or us moving McGee or Young, so the point is moot.

I have no problem with giving up anyone on the roster except Wall and McGee - to get an outstanding big under 30 - regardless of who might or might not be there when we draft.

[tontoz]

It should be noted that Nene is a weak rebounder. He is an efficient offensive player and good man defender but doesn't rebound much at all.

Efficient - as in extraordinarily efficient. His entire game - including rebounding - is like Amare's. Actually, he's a little better defensive rebounder and a little poorer offensive rebounder. So, his ridiclously high FG% isn't high just on put-backs. Put-backs are Javale's strength, so there'd be complementary strengths up front.

Only 31% of Nene's attempts are jumpers. 65% of Amare's shots are jumpers.

65% of Nene's inside points are assisted compared to 50% for Amare.

[nate33]

Nate, be realistic. There's basically no chance that Nene chooses the Wizards in free agency. Better looking options will come up for him. Basically, the only way to get him is to trade for him and lock him up before he hits free agency. If I thought there was a reasonable chance the Wiz could get him in free agency, I'd go for it. There simply isn't.

And enough with the games about his age. He's 28. 28 is 28 - no matter what Wall's age is, no matter what your age is, no matter what my niece's age is, no matter what your cat's age is in human years. He and Wall could still play together - believe it or not.

Yes, but by the time Wall is in his prime, Nene would be past his.

And I disagree with this notion that we can't acquire any good free agents. Free agents will go where the money is. Teams with cap room generally suck, so we're just as attractive as a destination as any other. Is Minnesota, Sacramento, or New Jersey a more attractive destination?

There's four decent teams with cap room: Indy, Houston, New York and OKC. Nene is the wrong fit for D'Antoni; OKC is presumably saving room for Westbrook next year; Houston may not have much cap room after paying Aaron Brooks; and Indy doesn't really want a slow plodding PF/C when they already have Hibbert. I'd say Houston is probably the stiffest competition, but they might also be eyeing Marc Gasol.

[Ruzious]

It should be noted that Nene is a weak rebounder. He is an efficient offensive player and good man defender but doesn't rebound much at all.

Efficient - as in extraordinarily efficient. His entire game - including rebounding - is like Amare's. Actually, he's a little better defensive rebounder and a little poorer offensive rebounder. So, his ridiclously high FG% isn't high just on put-backs. Put-backs are Javale's strength, so there'd be complementary strengths up front.

Only 31% of Nene's attempts are jumpers. 65% of Amare's shots are jumpers.

65% of Nene's inside points are assisted compared to 50% for Amare.

...because they're used differently.

[Ruzious]

Nate, be realistic. There's basically no chance that Nene chooses the Wizards in free agency. Better looking options will come up for him. Basically, the only way to get him is to trade for him and lock him up before he hits free agency. If I thought there was a reasonable chance the Wiz could get him in free agency, I'd go for it. There simply isn't.

And enough with the games about his age. He's 28. 28 is 28 - no matter what Wall's age is, no matter what your age is, no matter what my niece's age is, no matter what your cat's age is in human years. He and Wall could still play together - believe it or not.

Yes, but by the time Wall is in his prime, Nene would be past his.

And I disagree with this notion that we can't acquire any good free agents. Free agents will go where the money is. Teams with cap room generally suck, so we're just as attractive as a destination as any other. Is Minnesota, Sacramento, or New Jersey a more attractive destination?

There's four decent teams with cap room: Indy, Houston, New York and OKC. Nene is the wrong fit for D'Antoni; OKC is presumably saving room for Westbrook next year; Houston may not have much cap room after paying Aaron Brooks; and Indy doesn't really want a slow plodding PF/C when they already have Hibbert. I'd say Houston is probably the stiffest competition, but they might also be eyeing Marc Gasol.

It's not going to be just 4 teams. There can be sign and trade options, and we don't even know what the caps are going to be - or what other moves teams will make to give them extra room.

[tontoz]

Amare has averaged 20+ his whole career. He has always been his team's leading scorer. Do you think amare would be averaging 15 ppg in Denver?

The only player i know that takes as few jumpers as Nene, relative to their shot attempts, is Dwight Howard. Even Booker and McGee take more jumpers than Nene. His efficiency is due in large part due to shot selection. Nothing wrong with taking good shots but his offensive game is not comparable to Amare.

[theboomking]

[/quote]
I have no problem with giving up anyone on the roster except Wall and McGee - to get an outstanding big under 30 - regardless of who might or might not be there when we draft.[/quote]

Wouldn't Nene make McGee somewhat superfluous, or would you put them both on the floor at the same time? Would it not be better to move McGee than Young, thereby keeping more talent on the floor at once. You are proposing to sacrifice our starting 2 guard and leading scorer for center depth. I'd be fine with Seraphin backing up Nene. I'm not proposing that we'd be better off making the trade, just playing Devil's advocate.

[Ruzious]

Amare has averaged 20+ his whole career. He has always been his team's leading scorer. Do you think amare would be averaging 15 ppg in Denver?

The only player i know that takes as few jumpers as Nene, relative to their shot attempts, is Dwight Howard. Even Booker and McGee take more jumpers than Nene. His efficiency is due in large part due to shot selection. Nothing wrong with taking good shots but his offensive game is not comparable to Amare.

The best way to answer your question is to reverse it. If Nene started his career with Phoenix and was now on New York, then yes - I think his stats would be very similar to what Amare has put up. Nene has not been given the opportunities that Amare has.

[Ruzious]

I have no problem with giving up anyone on the roster except Wall and McGee - to get an outstanding big under 30 - regardless of who might or might not be there when we draft.[/quote]

Wouldn't Nene make McGee somewhat superfluous, or would you put them both on the floor at the same time? Would it not be better to move McGee than Young, thereby keeping more talent on the floor at once. You are proposing to sacrifice our starting 2 guard and leading scorer for center depth. I'd be fine with Seraphin backing up Nene. I'm not proposing that we'd be better off making the trade, just playing Devil's advocate.[/quote]
Of course, the idea would be to start them together. It's a thousand times harder to find a top big than it is to find a shooting guard who can produce roughly the same as Nick. There is a real shortage of quality big men in the NBA.

[tontoz]

Amare has averaged 20+ his whole career. He has always been his team's leading scorer. Do you think amare would be averaging 15 ppg in Denver?

The only player i know that takes as few jumpers as Nene, relative to their shot attempts, is Dwight Howard. Even Booker and McGee take more jumpers than Nene. His efficiency is due in large part due to shot selection. Nothing wrong with taking good shots but his offensive game is not comparable to Amare.

The best way to answer your question is to reverse it. If Nene started his career with Phoenix and was now on New York, then yes - I think his stats would be very similar to what Amare has put up. Nene has not been given the opportunities that Amare has.

Amare's career average is 10 ppg higher than Nene's. He was averaging 20 ppg in his second season before D'Antoni and Nash got there. Amare was the leading scorer on a title contender.

Nene has never been more than a 3rd option. Nene is a career 12 ppg scorer and it isn't like Denver plays a slow it down game. They are 1st in offensive efficiency and 3rd in pace.

Wow

[Ruzious]

Amare has averaged 20+ his whole career. He has always been his team's leading scorer. Do you think amare would be averaging 15 ppg in Denver?

The only player i know that takes as few jumpers as Nene, relative to their shot attempts, is Dwight Howard. Even Booker and McGee take more jumpers than Nene. His efficiency is due in large part due to shot selection. Nothing wrong with taking good shots but his offensive game is not comparable to Amare.

The best way to answer your question is to reverse it. If Nene started his career with Phoenix and was now on New York, then yes - I think his stats would be very similar to what Amare has put up. Nene has not been given the opportunities that Amare has.

Amare's career average is 10 ppg higher than Nene's. He was averaging 20 ppg in his second season before D'Antoni and Nash got there. Amare was the leading scorer on a title contender.

Nene has never been more than a 3rd option. Nene is a career 12 ppg scorer and it isn't like Denver plays a slow it down game. They are 1st in offensive efficiency and 3rd in pace.

Wow

And... that doesn't conflict with anything I said. Did I say anything about Nash or D'Antoni being a cause for Amare's success? Absolutely not. It's been about the opportunity to be his team's number 1 option. I could repeat what I've already said several times - if you'd like, but we're going around in circles here. I respect your opinion - we simply disagree.

[tontoz]

And... that doesn't conflict with anything I said. Did I say anything about Nash or D'Antoni being a cause for Amare's success? Absolutely not. It's been about the opportunity to be his team's number 1 option. I could repeat what I've already said several times - if you'd like, but we're going around in circles here. I respect your opinion - we simply disagree.

Nene wouldn't have the opportunity to be the number 1 option on a team with Joe Johnson, Steve Nash and Shawn Marion. he would have been the 4th option, not the first.

[Ruzious]

And... that doesn't conflict with anything I said. Did I say anything about Nash or D'Antoni being a cause for Amare's success? Absolutely not. It's been about the opportunity to be his team's number 1 option. I could repeat what I've already said several times - if you'd like, but we're going around in circles here. I respect your opinion - we simply disagree.

Nene wouldn't have the opportunity to be the number 1 option on a team with Joe Johnson, Steve Nash and Shawn Marion. he would have been the 4th option, not the first.

Ya know what tontoz; you picked the perfect avatar.

[tontoz]

What do you think Nene will average after Melo leaves?

[Ruzious]

What do you think Nene will average after Melo leaves?

What did you think Nick Young would average after Arenas left?

[tontoz]

What do you think Nene will average after Melo leaves?

What did you think Nick Young would average after Arenas left?

Actually i never thought about it since nobody asked. He was lighting it up before Arenas left so i don't see the relevance. He averaged 21 points per 36 minutes in November. The only difference between January and november is that he is getting more minutes now.

It isn't like Nene is suddenly going to get more minutes if Melo gets moved. I understand if you want to dodge the question. The truth must be sinking in.

[Ruzious]

What do you think Nene will average after Melo leaves?

What did you think Nick Young would average after Arenas left?

Actually i never thought about it since nobody asked. He was lighting it up before Arenas left so i don't see the relevance. He averaged 21 points per 36 minutes in November. The only difference between January and november is that he is getting more minutes now.

It isn't like Nene is suddenly going to get more minutes if Melo gets moved. I understand if you want to dodge the question. The truth must be sinking in.

What exactly is your malfunction, tontoz? I don't know what Nene would average if Melo leaves. Obviously, I think he'd average significantly more than he does now. I don't know by how much. I've already gave the reasons for my opinions.

[tontoz]

If Nene has Amare's offensive game and is being held back by Melo, as u seem to believe, then i would think you would expect him to average over 20 ppg like amare has done consistently. We'll find out soon enough.

[Ruzious]

If Nene has Amare's offensive game and is being held back by Melo, as u seem to believe, then i would think you would expect him to average over 20 ppg like amare has done consistently. We'll find out soon enough.

That's too simplistic. If I was coaching Denver, you'd probably be right. But Karl isn't as interested in my opinion as you are. If he wants guys like Harinton and JR and Billups to get more shots, then no - you'd be wrong.

[tontoz]

If Nene has Amare's offensive game and is being held back by Melo, as u seem to believe, then i would think you would expect him to average over 20 ppg like amare has done consistently. We'll find out soon enough.

That's too simplistic. If I was coaching Denver, you'd probably be right. But Karl isn't as interested in my opinion as you are. If he wants guys like Harinton and JR and Billups to get more shots, then no - you'd be wrong.

You are too funny. Amare is averaging 26 ppg, 2nd in the NBA. You might as well compare Nick to Kobe.