Official Trade Thread Part XLVI

[badinage]

There is a reason Giddeys minutes got cut in the playoffs. He can't make wide open shots and he doesn't pressure the rim.

It’s not him. It’s the “scandal.” That tanked his season. He got to the rim in previous seasons, when they were building to this. His shot is iffy, true — but the assists are there, the playmaking, the pace. He’d be a piece. And he’s younger than a lot of guys in this draft.

[tontoz]

There is a reason Giddeys minutes got cut in the playoffs. He can't make wide open shots and he doesn't pressure the rim.

It’s not him. It’s the “scandal.” That tanked his season. He got to the rim in previous seasons, when they were building to this. His shot is iffy, true — but the assists are there, the playmaking, the pace. He’d be a piece. And he’s younger than a lot of guys in this draft.

The scandal? His best month was after the scandal. He was crap to start the season which was well before the scandal.

The scandal isn't the reason his minutes were cut so much against Dallas. The scandal isn't the reason teams were leaving him wide open all year. This was actually his best shooting season btw.

[payitforward]

There is a reason Giddeys minutes got cut in the playoffs. He can't make wide open shots and he doesn't pressure the rim.

It’s not him. It’s the “scandal.” That tanked his season. He got to the rim in previous seasons, when they were building to this. His shot is iffy, true — but the assists are there, the playmaking, the pace. He’d be a piece. And he’s younger than a lot of guys in this draft.

The scandal? His best month was after the scandal. He was crap to start the season which was well before the scandal.

The scandal isn't the reason his minutes were cut so much against Dallas. The scandal isn't the reason teams were leaving him wide open all year. This was actually his best shooting season btw.

True enough. He's still only 21, & his TS% has improved each season.

Now... there's no reason to think he'll ever be an outstanding shooter, but this year his shooting has been as good as Kuz's shooting in his most efficient year (4th season) & at about the same volume.

Plus, as most people seem to forget, there's more to the game than shooting & "how many points does he score."

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Giddey would be a great get for us. He’s only 21!

That’s a fantastic addition to Deni and Bilal and Vukcevic and our 2 or 3 or 4 picks in the draft.

We have to discount this season, at least somewhat; the “scandal” was a distraction, and he never meshed with the new squad. But he can most definitely play. And there’s a lot of room to grow.

Agreed. Still managed 17.7 points 9.2 rebounds 6.9 assists 0.9 steals 0.8 blocks per 36 on 54.7% TS as a 21 year old.

He’s a reliable 3pt shot away from being elite. No reason why a 21 year old 80% FT shooter won’t continue to develop as a 3pt shooter.

I remember how badly Jason Kidd shot threes his first few seasons. Giddey has time to make adjustments.

[penbeast0]

Age wise, he certainly does. But he came in young and is running out of cost controlled contract. He will probably have to be resigned to potential money rather than production money (frequently as much money but rarely as much return on the money) unless he takes that big step next year.

[nate33]

Age wise, he certainly does. But he came in young and is running out of cost controlled contract. He will probably have to be resigned to potential money rather than production money (frequently as much money but rarely as much return on the money) unless he takes that big step next year.

Also, his shot looks kinda broken to me. He has an interesting midrange floater shot, but the form just doesn’t look right from distance.

[closg00]

Radical idea I am spitballing, there are probably 1/2 playoffs teams salivating at drafting Edey, draft Edey and hold him hostage to the highest bidder, exchange him for draft capital and punt at pick 2..this is just a fantasy exercise…

[9 and 20]

Was Giddey's thing a scandal with or without quotation marks? I bet Terd still likes a squeaky clean image to match the squeaky clean phone booth urinals. Ryan Rollins barely made it out of the Target with his new waffle iron before he got cut.

I'd take Giddey the player over Kuz though. Maybe we can get more than just Giddey, like Dieng? Somehow expand it to include #12, #26, and/or Kispert? I think OKC could def use both Kispert and Kuz.

[payitforward]

I can't see OKC giving us Giddey for Kuzma. Let alone "more."

[DCZards]

I can't see OKC giving us Giddey for Kuzma. Let alone "more."

I could see it, especially given OKC’s glaring need for size and the fact that Giddey is pretty much an afterthought on a team that relies heavily on SGA and Jalen Williams to handle the ball and generate offense from the perimeter. Giddey is kinda useless as an off-the-ball player.

As a third or fourth offensive option, Kuz could work out well for OKC.

[9 and 20]

Shai just got tagged with all NBA, which means he's making Brad Beal money and then some. I think OKC is def trading Giddey for something this off-season. Probably not with a ton of leverage, given the contract thing and Giddey's disappearance in the playoffs. Maybe Kuz's declining contract has some appeal?

Knicks are another team that could use Kuz and they have some picks over the next few years.

[tontoz]

Shai just got tagged with all NBA, which means he's making Brad Beal money and then some. I think OKC is def trading Giddey for something this off-season. Probably not with a ton of leverage, given the contract thing and Giddey's disappearance in the playoffs. Maybe Kuz's declining contract has some appeal?

Knicks are another team that could use Kuz and they have some picks over the next few years.

No he isn't. He isn't old enough. He is on his second contract resigned through '27.

They are under the cap so they can trade picks for Kuzma without any players.

[nate33]

Shai just got tagged with all NBA, which means he's making Brad Beal money and then some. I think OKC is def trading Giddey for something this off-season. Probably not with a ton of leverage, given the contract thing and Giddey's disappearance in the playoffs. Maybe Kuz's declining contract has some appeal?

Knicks are another team that could use Kuz and they have some picks over the next few years.

No he isn't. He isn't old enough. He is on his second contract resigned through '27.

They are under the cap so they can trade picks for Kuzma without any players.

Yeah, it just means that he is eligible for a Beal-sized supermax on his next contract in Summer 2027. He is an MVP candidate. It's a nice problem to have.

[nate33]

I can't see OKC giving us Giddey for Kuzma. Let alone "more."

I could see it, especially given OKC’s glaring need for size and the fact that Giddey is pretty much an afterthought on a team that relies heavily on SGA and Jalen Williams to handle the ball and generate offense from the perimeter. Giddey is kinda useless as an off-the-ball player.

As a third or fourth offensive option, Kuz could work out well for OKC.

Yeah, I definitely think OKC would consider this. Frankly, I'd be asking for more on our end.

Assuming OKC isn't adding picks to a Giddey package, I'd rather shop Kuzma elsewhere. I like the idea of trading him to Chicago for Ball + #11 much better. I'd like it even more if we traded him for a 2025 pick.

[nate33]

I'm wondering if there's a way to make a Kuzma for Michael Porter trade that works for our purposes. The base salary structure would be Kuzma + Davis for Porter. It saves them $7.1M instantly which saves them a fortune in luxtax money and gets them under the Second Apron. Kuzma's declining contract and the expiring Davis would give them sustained flexibility going forward. Kuzma has a little more "juice" in his game than MPJ and has the ability to create shots when the offense bogs down. A 3rd option like him might come in handy when defenses manage to slow Jokic and Murray down. He could also be a 2nd unit offensive hub. It would obviously hurt their 3-point shooting a bit, but it's easier to find 3&D over-the-hill vets for cheap to fill the shooting void than it is to find an offensively and defensively versatile 3rd option guy with size like Kuzma. They could just add the next Justin Holiday if they need to spread the floor.

I think Denver might offer a lot for that salary flexibility. The problem is, they don't have much to offer. The best package would be their 2024 draft pick (#27) plus their unprotected 2031 pick. But we would also end up with MPJ who is probably a better pairing with Deni at forward. Deni would do the ball handling and MPJ would be a catch-and-shoot floor spacer. Maybe with more usage, MPJ's scoring output could improve and he could be flipped. If nothing else, he is younger than Kuzma and we don't really care much about the salary for now.

I'm not sure if this is a great idea or not. I guess it depends on what other realistic options are out there.

[mhd]

I'm wondering if there's a way to make a Kuzma for Michael Porter trade that works for our purposes. The base salary structure would be Kuzma + Davis for Porter. It saves them $7.1M instantly which saves them a fortune in luxtax money and gets them under the Second Apron. Kuzma's declining contract and the expiring Davis would give them sustained flexibility going forward. Kuzma has a little more "juice" in his game than MPJ and has the ability to create shots when the offense bogs down. A 3rd option like him might come in handy when defenses manage to slow Jokic and Murray down. He could also be a 2nd unit offensive hub. It would obviously hurt their 3-point shooting a bit, but it's easier to find 3&D over-the-hill vets for cheap to fill the shooting void than it is to find an offensively and defensively versatile 3rd option guy with size like Kuzma. They could just add the next Justin Holiday if they need to spread the floor.

I think Denver might offer a lot for that salary flexibility. The problem is, they don't have much to offer. The best package would be their 2024 draft pick (#27) plus their unprotected 2031 pick. But we would also end up with MPJ who is probably a better pairing with Deni at forward. Deni would do the ball handling and MPJ would be a catch-and-shoot floor spacer. Maybe with more usage, MPJ's scoring output could improve and he could be flipped. If nothing else, he is younger than Kuzma and we don't really care much about the salary for now.

I'm not sure if this is a great idea or not. I guess it depends on what other realistic options are out there.

I was playing around with a Kuzma to Denver trade but with a 3-way where we take on bad salary. I had to do more thinking, but nice that we’re on the same page Nate

[mhd]

Got the trade idea Nate:

Wiz trades Kuzma+26 for Lonzo (expiring)+Carter+11
Denver trades: MPJ for Kuzma+26
Chicago trades: Lonzo+Carter+11 for MPJ

Why for Denver?
1). As you indicated above, they save a ton of money while replacing the numbers MPJ puts up for Kuzma (who, as an added bonus, can play small-ball 5 and is more versatile than MPJ is). The 26th pick can be used to potentially find a cheap player.

Why for Chicago?
1). They don't want to rebuild. MPJ is better than anything they could get at 11. It also gives them DeMar insurance if he bolts in FA as a secondary scorer next to LaVine.

Why for the Wiz?
1). 11th pick is better than 26. Can also use the Lonzo expiring in a BOYD type trade at the deadline if need be.

[pcbothwel]

I'm wondering if there's a way to make a Kuzma for Michael Porter trade that works for our purposes. The base salary structure would be Kuzma + Davis for Porter. It saves them $7.1M instantly which saves them a fortune in luxtax money and gets them under the Second Apron. Kuzma's declining contract and the expiring Davis would give them sustained flexibility going forward. Kuzma has a little more "juice" in his game than MPJ and has the ability to create shots when the offense bogs down. A 3rd option like him might come in handy when defenses manage to slow Jokic and Murray down. He could also be a 2nd unit offensive hub. It would obviously hurt their 3-point shooting a bit, but it's easier to find 3&D over-the-hill vets for cheap to fill the shooting void than it is to find an offensively and defensively versatile 3rd option guy with size like Kuzma. They could just add the next Justin Holiday if they need to spread the floor.

I think Denver might offer a lot for that salary flexibility. The problem is, they don't have much to offer. The best package would be their 2024 draft pick (#27) plus their unprotected 2031 pick. But we would also end up with MPJ who is probably a better pairing with Deni at forward. Deni would do the ball handling and MPJ would be a catch-and-shoot floor spacer. Maybe with more usage, MPJ's scoring output could improve and he could be flipped. If nothing else, he is younger than Kuzma and we don't really care much about the salary for now.

I'm not sure if this is a great idea or not. I guess it depends on what other realistic options are out there.

God no.
We can write off next year in terms of finances as it really doesnt make too much of difference given how we are tanking. But in 25/26 & 26/27 Kuz makes 40M, while Porter make 80M!!!

Also, while Porter is a better player, we simply cannot ignore usage. The only guys who do better with more usage are guys whose strength is playmaking. Hence why Deni is starting to flourish. Jack-of-all-trade type players are better with higher usage to "Spread around" their skill set. Specialist/shooters almost always crater with more.

Porter is a mid IQ chucker that doesnt play much Defense or create. He's thriving in the 3rd/4th option 20% usage role but would absolutely collapse as a 1st/2nd option 30% usage role that Kuz plays.
If you switch their roles/teams, I think you basically have the same guy for double the price.

I got my eye on Brooklyn.
- They just sent the 3rd pick to the Rockets and have no avenue to improve
- They are aiming to have cap space next year, and need to add talent that wont jeopardize that
- They have a few interesting picks that would be an interesting package

Simmons + Assets (Clowney, 2-3 1st in 2027-2029 including the PHX picks)
for
Kuz + (Holmes/Davis/Bagley/Shamet)

Brooklyn improves over the next 3 years, while maintaining max cap space and not trading any "Premium" picks.

Win-Win

[nate33]

Got the trade idea Nate:

Wiz trades Kuzma+26 for Lonzo (expiring)+Carter+11
Denver trades: MPJ for Kuzma+26
Chicago trades: Lonzo+Carter+11 for MPJ

Why for Denver?
1). As you indicated above, they save a ton of money while replacing the numbers MPJ puts up for Kuzma (who, as an added bonus, can play small-ball 5 and is more versatile than MPJ is). The 26th pick can be used to potentially find a cheap player.

Why for Chicago?
1). They don't want to rebuild. MPJ is better than anything they could get at 11. It also gives them DeMar insurance if he bolts in FA as a secondary scorer next to LaVine.

Why for the Wiz?
1). 11th pick is better than 26. Can also use the Lonzo expiring in a BOYD type trade at the deadline if need be.

I like the idea of flipping MPJ to Chicago.

I think you have the value of the Washington/Denver portion of the trade wrong though. Denver would absolutely have to give up value to turn MPJ into Kuzma on his contract. They wouldn't not be getting value. Kuzma for 3 years at $21M per year is worth a hell of a lot more than MPJ for 3 years at $38M a year. And that value is magnified further once you factor Denver's luxtax savings and avoiding the Second Apron.

I think the deal would be:

Washington trades: Kuzma
Washington receives: Ball + #11 + 2031 DEN FRP (unprotected)

Denver trades: MPJ + #28 + 2031 DEN FRP (unprotected)
Denver receives: Kuzma + Carter

Chicago trades: Ball + Carter + #11
Chicago recieves: MPJ + #28

All that said, I'm not so sure Chicago would be interested in this. They have a ton of money tied up in Lavine. I don't think they'd want another expensive shooter like Porter.

[nate33]

I'm wondering if there's a way to make a Kuzma for Michael Porter trade that works for our purposes. The base salary structure would be Kuzma + Davis for Porter. It saves them $7.1M instantly which saves them a fortune in luxtax money and gets them under the Second Apron. Kuzma's declining contract and the expiring Davis would give them sustained flexibility going forward. Kuzma has a little more "juice" in his game than MPJ and has the ability to create shots when the offense bogs down. A 3rd option like him might come in handy when defenses manage to slow Jokic and Murray down. He could also be a 2nd unit offensive hub. It would obviously hurt their 3-point shooting a bit, but it's easier to find 3&D over-the-hill vets for cheap to fill the shooting void than it is to find an offensively and defensively versatile 3rd option guy with size like Kuzma. They could just add the next Justin Holiday if they need to spread the floor.

I think Denver might offer a lot for that salary flexibility. The problem is, they don't have much to offer. The best package would be their 2024 draft pick (#27) plus their unprotected 2031 pick. But we would also end up with MPJ who is probably a better pairing with Deni at forward. Deni would do the ball handling and MPJ would be a catch-and-shoot floor spacer. Maybe with more usage, MPJ's scoring output could improve and he could be flipped. If nothing else, he is younger than Kuzma and we don't really care much about the salary for now.

I'm not sure if this is a great idea or not. I guess it depends on what other realistic options are out there.

God no.
We can write off next year in terms of finances as it really doesnt make too much of difference given how we are tanking. But in 25/26 & 26/27 Kuz makes 40M, while Porter make 80M!!!

Also, while Porter is a better player, we simply cannot ignore usage. The only guys who do better with more usage are guys whose strength is playmaking. Hence why Deni is starting to flourish. Jack-of-all-trade type players are better with higher usage to "Spread around" their skill set. Specialist/shooters almost always crater with more.

Porter is a mid IQ chucker that doesnt play much Defense or create. He's thriving in the 3rd/4th option 20% usage role but would absolutely collapse as a 1st/2nd option 30% usage role that Kuz plays.
If you switch their roles/teams, I think you basically have the same guy for double the price.

I got my eye on Brooklyn.
- They just sent the 3rd pick to the Rockets and have no avenue to improve
- They are aiming to have cap space next year, and need to add talent that wont jeopardize that
- They have a few interesting picks that would be an interesting package

Simmons + Assets (Clowney, 2-3 1st in 2027-2029 including the PHX picks)
for
Kuz + (Holmes/Davis/Bagley/Shamet)

Brooklyn improves over the next 3 years, while maintaining max cap space and not trading any "Premium" picks.

Win-Win

I certainly like Kuzma for expirings and multiple picks more than my Denver deal. I'm just not convinced Brooklyn would give up a bunch of PHX picks for Kuzma.