Official Countdown Grunfeld Era-2nd SuperStar?

[WizarDynasty]

New Thread -- Link below links to where it all started back in 2008.

IF you read the same exact problems have not been fixed.


Big congratulations to all the posters "Closg00" "CCJ" "Lyrical" "Hands" "Nate" Doc and u know the rest. in the old thread that kept the fire under Ernie to make him perform better and getting us closer to a dynasty in DC. Give Gil a chance to score over 2000 points again this season EG..remember only inside outside "proven" all nba player on this team.

This is the link to all the great discussion about why we need to fire Ernie so check it out.
http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=853974


This is what i stated days ago as our priorities.

Three major priorities for the team--we need one player with all attributes combined. You don't solve solution by acquiring two players and magically pretending that they are one player. Your starter is the most complete player and almost never needs to double team, and hopefully the other team needs to double him on offense. Ranked in priority
1. One big that has all of these attributes-High Motor, high field goal percentage, above average defensive rebounder, can block shots, can shoot from perimeter to open lane for Gil, is effective defending the pick and role. Explosive first step is a premium-, doesn't have an ego problem. All attributes need to be there.
2. Perimeter defense- A player that can guard big s/f's and has enough agility and standing reach to effectively contest a 6'8 players three point shot but has quick enough feet to guard on perimeter players such as point guards without being callled for a blocking foul, can knock down open three point shots, and can punish another team for using an undersized s/f by posting him up. Explosive First Step is a premium. All attributes need to be there otherwise he isn't worth a lottery pick.
3. A shooting guard who has the footspeed and strength to defend pg's, strong enough to defend s/f's, and has the ball handling ability to advance the ball against pressure, should be able to knock down an open three point shot. Explosive step is a must for a scoring guard.



We did upgrade our perimeter defense with extra length but I don't know about Mike's agility. i do know that i would rather see mike shooting three pointers than Caron jacking up two pointers all day hitting at the same percentage.
I think our third priority was met. Foye has the footspeed for pg and strength for sg's. He has pretty poor standing reach but he has an explosive first step and can knock down the jay.
If Blatche magically develops a high motor, our solution at powerforward is solved. But i did recognize that Jordan Hill didn't have lower leg strength needed to post on the blocks at will and Mullen's does have motivational issues.
So again, if we can figure out a way to trade Caron for Stoudemire, we are pretty set.
I still think EG screwed up by not getting Clark. That's going to haunt him for a very long time if he doesn't fulfill the teams first priority of getting a dominant offensive post bigman that is also an above average defensive rebounder with a high motor. That's been the organization number need for the last 6 years and EG still has done nothing to address it. As much as I complained about Stoudemire, I would rather have him over Mike Miller and Foye.

Truth of the matter is Young has no power to his game. This guy games is completely designed to avoid contact. When you see him drive, he will throw up a weak floater rather than colliding into a "OUT OF POSITION BIGMAN and Still scoring" like arenas attempting to get the and one call. Arenas is TOUGH. When you have the mentality of attacking a defender who has 50lbs of weight on you, you are tough. CAron has the mentality but doesn't have the speed or one legged explosiveness to execute a And One move scoring through Fouls. ITs atrocious watching Haywood in the paint. You almost never see jamison on the block challenging a shot blocker and still scoring. !! Young has no power to his game. I feel that McGee kind of has the same philosophy. Their offensive moves are designed to avoid contact rather than attacking and attempting to get the And-One.
If they added that dimension of toughness to their offensive games, Wizards would really be a force on offense--(instead of relying on low percentage shots and not being able to score when the opposition gets physical). But how can a player add this element to their game, when their entire career, they chickened out against contact and didn't take pride in scoring even after being fouled. One thing I love about Arenas, his game is designed to score even after he is fouled. He is the only player on the team with a true power game. jamison, blatche, haywood....I really don't see Butler score frequently through fouls. ...So yeah..Arenas is our only true powerplayer on offense that scores through fouls.
That's why this team is soft. Could McGee and Young have been guided toward being finishers through fouls. Could this mentality have been coached through the jordan era. Does Grunfeld mandate that his handpicked coach emphasize this toughness aspect to his player. I fear that it has never been the case. Arenas was an And-One scorer back in Golden State. NO player that we have brought to this team have developed into And-One specialists. That should be a major concern and points directly to personnel decisions--for soft non-power players that can't score through contact consistently.
It seemed at one point that Blatche was beginning to turn into a power player, going into the post during the summer league and scoring through fouls yet coaches seem to keep that side of his game undeveloped and designing the 90Percent of his plays for him to jump shoot out on the perimeter instead of going on the block attempting to get the And One. Could it be that because Jamison is a non power player, Blatche has to run the same exact plays that are designed for soft jump shooting Jamison and this in turns is slowly turning Blatche into the soft player that Jamison is. Let's hope Saunder's recognize the huge gap in talent that Blatche has over Jamison in the post. We almost never see Jamision post anyone up that his bigger and taller than him, which is 80%percent of the time while blatche is bigger and quicker==or at teh very least same size with most of the power forwards players he matches up with. Could this inherent Flaw with Jamison completely cripple Blatche being a dominant post player at the p/f position? what McGee needs at this site to get stronger http://www.weightvest.com/Pages/40basketball.html

[WizarDynasty]

Re: Official Countdown to Firing"NoLowPostOffense"Grunfeld

Postby JonathanJoseph on Thu Jul 08, 2010 3:32 am

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:IBTF (In Before The Firing)

The Wizards experienced a huge turnaround from the beginning of the season, when the surprising dip in the salary cap had them staring at a $78 million payroll and expecting to make a luxury tax payment - for the first time in franchise history.

But after the team foundered, the Wizards aggressively worked to get under the luxury tax by dealing away Antawn Jamison, Caron Butler, Brendan Haywood and DeShawn Stevenson near the trade deadline. They also made extra savings by reaching buyout agreements with Zydrunas Ilgauskas and Mike James. Instead of making a $9 million luxury tax payment, the Wizards received a rebate check worth $3.7 million from the league for staying under the tax line - and almost $14 million turnaround.



What a load of crap.

What happened was Gil got suspended for the remainder of the season, thus making EG finally make some smart moves, and that ended up saving the Wizards' ass financially.

The author of that piece doesn't even have objective credibility as far as I'm concerned.



Whaaa??? The author, Mike Lee, hasn't been any sort of Wizards apologist and certainly has better access to the Wizards than just about anyone else out there.

The Wizards season was a failure way before gungate ever happened. Gungate is the most overblown incident in NBA history.

Cosign

[montestewart]

I've never seen an explicit statement to this effect, but I've gotten the strong impression that the breakup of the big-3 and the reduction in payroll was greatly motivated by the transaction between the Pollins and Leonsis, and possibly greatly desired by both sides. Whether EG could have gotten more in return in the trades (as I and some others suspect) or not, he still did a fine job of slashing payroll in preparation for a rebuild. It doesn't have to have been EG's idea in order to credit him with its execution.

[leswizards]

What happened was Gil got suspended for the remainder of the season, thus making EG finally make some smart moves, and that ended up saving the Wizards' ass financially.

What?!?!

To each their own I guess. The Wizards were awful to start last season, and Gil's horrendous play was the main culprit. Then when he suppossedly started playing better, the Wizards still lost 3 or 4 games because Gil was getting his pocket picked by rookies and missing clutch free throws.

Maybe I am missing your point, but it seems to me that you are saying that EG was too incompetent to supply Gil with a quality supporting cast, and Gil's suspension helped because it made EG restart the proces. If that is your point, I just don't see what you are getting at.

If on the other hand your point is, EG did everything in his power to get Gil the best supporting cast possible, and Gil sabotaged the effort by not rehabbing his knee properly, and then by not being smart enought to know the limits of proper hazing of a team mate, then I guess I see your point.

[JonathanJoseph]

What happened was Gil got suspended for the remainder of the season, thus making EG finally make some smart moves, and that ended up saving the Wizards' ass financially.

What?!?!

To each their own I guess. The Wizards were awful to start last season, and Gil's horrendous play was the main culprit. Then when he suppossedly started playing better, the Wizards still lost 3 or 4 games because Gil was getting his pocket picked by rookies and missing clutch free throws.

Maybe I am missing your point, but it seems to me that you are saying that EG was too incompetent to supply Gil with a quality supporting cast, and Gil's suspension helped because it made EG restart the proces. If that is your point, I just don't see what you are getting at.

If on the other hand your point is, EG did everything in his power to get Gil the best supporting cast possible, and Gil sabotaged the effort by not rehabbing his knee properly, and then by not being smart enought to know the limits of proper hazing of a team mate, then I guess I see your point.

If that were the case, wouldn't the Wizards play improve significantly after gungate? And why were the Wizards so awful the season before last?

The common denominators are obvious. Selfish, no-defense, bad-chemistry captains Butler and Jamison.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

JJ, I'm not arguing at all about selfish, no-defense, and latter bad chemistry. Of course those were the reasons the team wasn't good.

My point is that EG re-upped for that to the tune of $167M, after it had been obvious to me for at least 2 years the Wizards would never win in the playoffs as constructed with the Big 3. He gave Gil 111M and Antawn 56M to not play defense. He committed to them for years and years and years.

Last year IMO the problem was Flip coached exceptionally poorly to start the season.

He never played McGee. He played DeShawn three times the minutes of Nick Young. Flip insisted on a short bench instead of BENCHING Butler for the extreme shot jacking and no defense. Same with Jamison. Flip played those guys 40 minutes as if there were no other options. I said all season long why not more Young and McGee. I heard from folks on this board those guys can't play. I said 2 years ago the Wizards would be better off with Blatche at PF than they are losing with an aging Jamison. Said in the long run Blatche would rebound and defend better and he passes. Never saw Andray blowing up offensively like he did, but I KNEW Blatche was a decent player. FLIP did not use Blatche well at all, prior to the trades. After Andray's great summer and great play when Jamison started the season injured, Flip still benched Blatche and greatly reduced his deserved minutes once AJ came back. Flip started off using a very short bench with much Stevenson and much Oberto. Not good coaching at all. He never held Jamison or Butler accountable. Saunders was well on the way to killing the morale of all his young players.

I truly believe the Wizards would have been fine early last season had Young, McGee, and Blatche gotten copious minutes early on with Haywood, Butler, and Jamison!

Instead, Flip was way too rigid and didn't play the same guys who showed how talented they are later in the season. He had them onthe bench and was losing game after game with the team scoring 90 or so points. Flip's system was bad early last season because he refused to play the guys that had athleticism, length, and speed. He played his stiff, veteran, shot jackers. He played non-athletes Oberto and Stevenson. Flip was bad for chemistry, too!

Along with Flip's coaching, another reason for last season's struggles were Arenas' rust and his new role. He was atrocious early, but had clearly turned the corner by gun gate. Flip kept forcing Gil to be the man before Gil was ready to be the man--but honestly the team didn't have anybody else to step up. Arenas just wasn't ready to be a closer. But for all his bad play but I remember his triple double. I recall a 40-point game for Gil. His PER of 18 exceeded what I thought it would be coming back from 2 years injured. The other guy who really struggled to adapt to Flip's system, (and maybe to losing too much weight), was Caron. He was wretched bad last season. I won't put that on Flip, but I thought the coach should have played Caron a whole lot less, particularly after the game where Caron defied the coach and turned gunner at the end of one loss. Saunders should have used less Arenas and less Butler. In fairness, however, both those guys were finally dialed in at the time of gungate....

My point, getting back to EG, is that he only made the change after the light at the end of the tunnel revealed itself. Gil getting suspended was a godsend for EG/Pollin. He otherwise would have been over the cap, regardless. I bet he would have kept Antawn, Brendan, and Caron; had Gil not imploded--which actually worked out for the best.

[AlohaWiz]

If that were the case, wouldn't the Wizards play improve significantly after gungate? And why were the Wizards so awful the season before last?

The common denominators are obvious. Selfish, no-defense, bad-chemistry captains Butler and Jamison.

And Ernie Grunfeld is the guy who brought in those "selfish, no-defense, bad-chemistry captains Butler and Jamison". Yet, you continue to blindly defend EG.

Now, make no mistake about it, I was a fan of Butler and Jamison when they were with the Wizards (and still follow them). I pulled for them & always hoped that the team would succeed with them, but it turns out they weren't good enough. In fact, the team was average--partly due to injuries, but partly (by your own admission) to the players EG traded for.

And that's how I view EG. He's an average GM. I don't hate him, or love him. I just sit by and hope that he makes more above-average moves than below-average moves. As a fan, I want more than that.

[leswizards]

If that were the case, wouldn't the Wizards play improve significantly after gungate?

No not necessarily. I said Gil was horrendous to start the season, and he was the main culprit for the Wizards playing awful basketball during that stretch. What I meant was for the first 12 games Gil was playing awful basketball and Gil was the main reason that the Wizards were only 3-9 during that stretch. His shots were not falling and he was turning the ball over, and the Wizards were better with him on the bench rather than on the court. During next 11 games Gil's numbers improved, but the Wizards were still only 4-7 during that stretch because they lost 3 or 4 winnable games when Gil either got his pocket picked by a rookie at crunch time or he missed late free throws. Over the next nine games, Gil's numbers were solid, and I can't recall him costing the team any games at crunch time, but still the Wizards were only 4-5 during that stretch. After gun gate the team went 4-12 before the firesale. I don't think the team's record after gun gate show anything other than they were a trully demoralized team that was merely biding time until the inevitable fire sale came. Regardless, the record was statistically the same as the record the Wizards had during the period when I said that Gil was main culprit in how bad the Wizards were.

[leswizards]

And why were the Wizards so awful the season before last?

During that season, the PGs were Daniels, Javaris and Mike James. All three were awful.

During that season, the SGs were Stevenson, Butler, and Nick Young. Stevenson was horrendous. Butler was slightly above average as a SG, but was a much better small forward, and it was idiotic of Tapscott to devalue Butler by playing him out of position. I thought Nick Young was decent, but most people think he was awful.

During that season, DMac played over 20 mpg at SF. DMac was awful.

When all three of your PGs are awful, when your best SG should be playing SF, when your second best SG is hated and thought to be worthless by both of your team's head coaches, and a majority of the team's fans, and when your third best SG is awful (can't even shoot better than 32%), and you have a bum like DMac getting better than 20 minutes per game at SF, well you are not going to have a very good team.

[Kanyewest]

Another reason why Sam Presti isn't a genius- he took on Cook and the 1st rounder to make the Miami Heat.

[JonathanJoseph]

If that were the case, wouldn't the Wizards play improve significantly after gungate? And why were the Wizards so awful the season before last?

The common denominators are obvious. Selfish, no-defense, bad-chemistry captains Butler and Jamison.

And Ernie Grunfeld is the guy who brought in those "selfish, no-defense, bad-chemistry captains Butler and Jamison". Yet, you continue to blindly defend EG.

Now, make no mistake about it, I was a fan of Butler and Jamison when they were with the Wizards (and still follow them). I pulled for them & always hoped that the team would succeed with them, but it turns out they weren't good enough. In fact, the team was average--partly due to injuries, but partly (by your own admission) to the players EG traded for.

And that's how I view EG. He's an average GM. I don't hate him, or love him. I just sit by and hope that he makes more above-average moves than below-average moves. As a fan, I want more than that.

Yes he did, but Caron Butler was not "that guy" when he got here. He was not able to handle success and it was his insistence that he needed to be a scorer and go-to-guy who stopped playing defense that killed the chemistry.

If Butler was playing the role he was brought here to play, and Butler was perfectly capable of playing good defense, than Butler, Haywood, Blatche and Oberto would have all been good defenders. Not a very good defensive team, but certainly good enough to win playoff games.

It didn't work out, and Grunfeld gets dinged for that, but you have to take into account which parts were directly related to EG and which were just bad luck. Caron Butler's mental implosion was not EG's fault. Not his fault that major injuries wiped out key players.

Yes Grunfeld should have had a "tougher" team (something he's made clear in his recent roster moves) but his plan and execution of it were not bad at all.

[JonathanJoseph]

And now that we have some clarity on a few things:

1) Blatche is under contract for 2 more years at "Johan Petro money". That's the best contract in the NBA
2) Chalk up the Hinrich/Seraphin trade in the "big win" category. If Seraphin becomes another Serge Ibaka, than chalk it up in the "huge win" category
3) Ernie and Flip seem to both think Yi has upside. If that move works out in any positive way, then you can chalk up another "big win" or "huge win" for Grunfeld. If it doesn't work out, nothing lost.
4) Wizards still have tons of cap flexibility going forward and all their draft picks.

Just saying....

[Hoopalotta]

Everyone can calm down now - looks like Tommy Sheppard's not leaving:

Reports: Wizards vice president Tommy Sheppard passed over for Hornets job

Multiple news outlets are reporting that that the New Orleans Hornets and Dell Demps reached an agreement in principle late Tuesday night for Demps to become the next general manager. Wizards vice president of basketball administration Tommy Sheppard was among a handful of candidates who interviewed with Hornets president Hugh Weber last week in Las Vegas after the organization and Jeff Bower parted ways.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/wizard ... ident.html

A lot of sighs of relief I'm sure.

[nate33]

BTW, I hate this thread title.

Lots of teams in this league don't have a low post offense. Heck, I'd venture to say that the Wizards with Blatche on the block have a better low post offense than half the teams in this league.

[WizarDynasty]

Gotta give ernie direction. He is doing good, but he tends to shoot for being slightly above average instead of outstanding. Focusing on the low post will make this team outstanding if all the rest of the parts are kept. Yes i love blatche's post game too, but if the team is built correctly, when Blatche goes out the game we still have a low post threat. Yes comparing the wizards to half the other teams in the league doesn't make us a top 4 team in the nba. We need to compare ourselves to the top 4 teams in the entire league if we want to become a dynasty. that's is the measuring stick we should use. Grunfeld is doing much better. McGee is definitely not far behind blatche we just need to keep putting pressure on management to aim for top 4 teams in both east and west coast.

[doclinkin]

Gotta give ernie direction. He is doing good, but he tends to shoot for being slightly above average instead of outstanding. Focusing on the low post will make this team outstanding if all the rest of the parts are kept.

Maybe, but I'd be more concerned about Low-Post Defense than the reverse. That would be the more accurate criticism.

[JonathanJoseph]

BTW, I hate this thread title.

Lots of teams in this league don't have a low post offense. Heck, I'd venture to say that the Wizards with Blatche on the block have a better low post offense than half the teams in this league.

I think this thread is nothing if not ironic.

We've yet to see Seraphin and Booker seems like a 3 to me (kudos to whoever coined the term "crash 3"), but with McGee and Blatche the Wiz have the best set of young big men in the NBA.

[danzou]

BTW, I hate this thread title.

Lots of teams in this league don't have a low post offense. Heck, I'd venture to say that the Wizards with Blatche on the block have a better low post offense than half the teams in this league.

I think this thread is nothing if not ironic.

We've yet to see Seraphin and Booker seems like a 3 to me (kudos to whoever coined the term "crash 3"), but with McGee and Blatche the Wiz have the best set of young big men in the NBA.

I would rate Sacramento's (Cousins, Thompson, Whiteside) higher, as well as NJ (Lopez, Favors).

[LyricalRico]

And don't forget that Sacto also has Carl Landry. They are definitely ahead of Washington.

[JonathanJoseph]

BTW, I hate this thread title.

Lots of teams in this league don't have a low post offense. Heck, I'd venture to say that the Wizards with Blatche on the block have a better low post offense than half the teams in this league.

I think this thread is nothing if not ironic.

We've yet to see Seraphin and Booker seems like a 3 to me (kudos to whoever coined the term "crash 3"), but with McGee and Blatche the Wiz have the best set of young big men in the NBA.

I would rate Sacramento's (Cousins, Thompson, Whiteside) higher, as well as NJ (Lopez, Favors).

Uh, ok, but you're talking about guys who haven't played in an NBA game yet. Sacramento only has Thompson and Carl Landry so far. I think Cousins will be a huge beast but I'm not certain that Whiteside will do anything or that Thompson is anything special. Favors looks to me to have some Stromile Swift in him. I'm not sold. And so far, Blatche is better than all of them except for Lopez.

If we are including rookies and tweeners, for all we know Seraphin and/or Booker will emerge. Point being, the Wiz have attractive options in the post.