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Crawford vs Arenas 3rd Year Comparision

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Post#1 Crawford vs Arenas 3rd Year Comparision
Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:43 pm by hands11

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... 02&y2=2013

Ok, before you'll freak out, just look at the numbers. I know this is sacreligious to the Gil lovers but so be it. This isn't about saying Crawford is Gil but it is interesting to see their similarities and realize Crawford has nice potential if used correctly.

Both 6-4. Gil was thinker at 215.

Both are hybrid PG/SGs who chucked the ball a lot.
Both willing and able to have the ball in their hands for the last shot.
Both will take the ball to the rim. If Craw could get more foul calls his eFG would go up.
Both willing to rebound.
Both played with tons of swag confidence.
Both mentally special

Gil was a better 3 ball shooter and had better form from out there. Crawford is the one more will to be a PG first and scorer later while playing PG.

Gils Ast % 25.5 lowish for a PG
Crawford 32.2 which is good and these numbers are weighted light because he only started at PG like 6 games

Per 36 number are very silimar
Advanced stats very close as well.

If Crawford would just fix his 3 ball more ( he has made progress year over year over year), I think the kid can be a valuable player in this league.

Biggest hole in Crawford game is the spot up 3. If he could get someone to help him work on that, that would really open up his game. And the fix is easy. He needs to develop a standard shooters form and jump with his wrist already back. I can tell you when he is going to miss the monent he releases it. When he jumps and does that quick back and forth feel kind of release, it isn't likely going in. That is the form he uses when he is closer to the rim driving and it works well for him there. Those are feel type shots. Spot of 3 balls is all about consistent form and release. That is what he lacks from out there. But that can get fixed with a shooting teacher and repetition.

OK. Let the freak out name calling begin.
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Post#2 Re: Crawford vs Arenas 3rd Year Comparision
Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:47 pm by tontoz

Arenas had a TS% of 56.5% in his 3rd season.

smh


Edit: Oops that was his 4th season. Hollinger's stats don't go back to 2001/02.
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Post#3 Re: Crawford vs Arenas 3rd Year Comparision
Mon Dec 24, 2012 1:03 pm by nate33

Arenas played that year with an abdominal injury and wasn't close to 100%. If you look at Arenas' 2nd year numbers, he blows Crawford's 3rd season out of the water.

http://bkref.com/tiny/1jR94

Arenas had an ORtg of 108, a TS% of .540, and a PER of 18.6. His team finished with 38 wins in a tough Western Conference.

Crawford has an ORtg of 98, a TS% of .494, and a PER of 16.2. His team is 3-22.
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Post#4 Re: Crawford vs Arenas 3rd Year Comparision
Mon Dec 24, 2012 1:53 pm by FAH1223

Arenas was by far a more efficient player despite his chucking.
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Post#5 Re: Crawford vs Arenas 3rd Year Comparision
Mon Dec 24, 2012 2:01 pm by AFM

Would be a better comparison if Crawford had Arenas' work ethic. Not a knock on Crawford, but Arenas' work ethic was legendary.
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Post#6 Re: Crawford vs Arenas 3rd Year Comparision
Mon Dec 24, 2012 2:22 pm by hands11

AFM wrote:Would be a better comparison if Crawford had Arenas' work ethic. Not a knock on Crawford, but Arenas' work ethic was legendary.


Why would you let that get in your way ? So Gil was a total gym rat. Honestly, I don't know one way or another to what level Crawford is one or not.

As for using Gil stomach issue as the deciding factor between the 3rd year comparision, I wouldn't let that get in the way. You are never going to find exact Apples and Apples comparisons. Crawford had an ankle injury. Also, he has switch from SG to starting PG and been asked to play 40 mins in back to back games playing both positions in the same game. Gil was not asked to do that.

Gil in GS shared the back court with Hughes, Richardson and has AJ on his team.

Interesting enough, he ended up have Hughes and AJ here as well.

But in 2003, Gil was just a mindless shot jacker. He, Hughes and Jerry all shot under .400 that year and competed with each other over who could jack on up first.
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Post#7 Re: Crawford vs Arenas 3rd Year Comparision
Mon Dec 24, 2012 2:30 pm by AFM

Because he increased his scoring from 19 to 29 PPG in 2 seasons. I dont see Crawford doing that. I agree that at this point in Crawford's career they are similar players, but Arenas was a freak of a nature who practiced his ass off and turned into one of the best guards in the game.
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Post#8 Re: Crawford vs Arenas 3rd Year Comparision
Mon Dec 24, 2012 2:34 pm by nate33

hands11 wrote:As for using Gil stomach issue as the deciding factor between the 3rd year comparision, I wouldn't let that get in the way. You are never going to find exact Apples and Apples comparisons. Crawford had an ankle injury. Also, he has switch from SG to starting PG and been asked to play 40 mins in back to back games playing both positions in the same game. Gil was not asked to do that.

Why wouldn't you consider the abdominal injury the deciding factor. Arenas' 3rd season was easily his least effective season of his entire career (pre knee injury). Arenas was better as a rookie and as a second year player. You are cherry picking Arenas' worst season and comparing it with Crawford. That's a disingenuous analysis. It's also worth noting that Crawford is 2 years older than Arenas in his third year.
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Post#9 Re: Crawford vs Arenas 3rd Year Comparision
Mon Dec 24, 2012 3:00 pm by GhostsOfGil

tontoz wrote:Arenas had a TS% of 56.5% in his 3rd season.

smh


Edit: Oops that was his 4th season. Hollinger's stats don't go back to 2001/02.


In Gils first 3 years, he had a TS% of 56, 54.6 and 51.2 respectively and was getting to the line 6 times per game. Also, in those 3 years Gil had an oRTG average of 106. On the flip side, In Crawfords 3 years, he has yet to crack 47% TS%, 3.5 FTA per game, or oRTG above 95..
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Post#10 Re: Crawford vs Arenas 3rd Year Comparision
Mon Dec 24, 2012 3:08 pm by GhostsOfGil

hands11 wrote:But in 2003, Gil was just a mindless shot jacker. I member it to clearly. He, Hughes and Jerry all shot under .400 that year and competed with each other over who could jack on up first.

Jordan Crawford makes 2003 gil look like Jan Vesely in terms of shot jacking.
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Post#11 Re: Crawford vs Arenas 3rd Year Comparision
Mon Dec 24, 2012 4:24 pm by pancakes3

If you only focus on the two seasons in question and ignore previous seasons, ignore the context of the stats, ignore the 2 year age difference, and ignore the sample sizes... it's still a bad comparison.
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Post#12 Re: Crawford vs Arenas 3rd Year Comparision
Mon Dec 24, 2012 6:29 pm by Nivek

This is inane.
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Post#13 Re: Crawford vs Arenas 3rd Year Comparision
Mon Dec 24, 2012 6:44 pm by closg00

Why????
Guys on a message board could do a better job managing the Wizards than Ernie Grunfeld.
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Post#14 Re: Crawford vs Arenas 3rd Year Comparision
Mon Dec 24, 2012 7:13 pm by Nivek

closg00 wrote:Why????


Nate articulated the reasons quite well. Biggest thing was that Arenas was playing through a serious abdominal injury that hampered what he could do. He had basically the same abdominal injury that virtually ended Jamal Mashburn's career. It's just idiotic to gloss over that injury. Arenas should not have even been on the floor much of that season.
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Post#15 Re: Crawford vs Arenas 3rd Year Comparision
Mon Dec 24, 2012 8:53 pm by pancakes3

I think closg was questioning the reason behind the thread rather than the "conclusions" drawn from it.
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Post#16 Re: Crawford vs Arenas 3rd Year Comparision
Mon Dec 24, 2012 9:02 pm by Nivek

Ah. My bad. :(
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Post#17 Re: Crawford vs Arenas 3rd Year Comparision
Mon Dec 24, 2012 11:07 pm by bulletproof_32

Very interesting comparison. Got me thinging (sic) about another very similar comparison that should be on fredstake.com soon:


Jan Vs Jermaine 1st year comparison

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... 01&y2=2012

Ok, before you'll (or y'all) freak out, just look at the numbers. I know this is sacreligious to the EG haters but so be it. This isn't about saying Jan is the franchise cornerstone or the heart of this team but it is interesting to see their similarities and realize Jan has nice potential if used correctly.

Both 6-11. Jan is thinker (tomato/ tamatoe) at 240 ( apparently jan also uses a different scale to weight himself).

Neither played college ball.
One was teammates with Rasheed Wallace. The other plays for a franchise that drafted Rasheed Wallace.
Both have names that begin with J (although one can't hit a j, the other has hit a few j's in his lifetime)
Both showed tones of swag confidence at the draft.

OK. Let the freak out name calling begin. I've been making this comparison for years and will stick my 7 year Wizboard reputation on it.
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Post#18 Re: Crawford vs Arenas 3rd Year Comparision
Mon Dec 24, 2012 11:10 pm by hands11

AFM wrote:Because he increased his scoring from 19 to 29 PPG in 2 seasons. I dont see Crawford doing that. I agree that at this point in Crawford's career they are similar players, but Arenas was a freak of a nature who practiced his ass off and turned into one of the best guards in the game.


I wasn't saying Crawford would eventually put up Gil numbers in two years. You are getting ahead of yourself.
All I have been saying it that I think he would be a good back up PG who can start when needed. Now give opportunities could he develop more. Absolutely. But first things first. He need to be presented the opportunity.

I just saw the comparison numbers interesting. And I also think Crawford would be better developed as a PG. Should be interesting to see how the number develop if he is allowed to stay at PG while Wall is out.
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Post#19 Re: Crawford vs Arenas 3rd Year Comparision
Mon Dec 24, 2012 11:15 pm by hands11

bulletproof_32 wrote:Very interesting comparison. Got me thinging (sic) about another very similar comparison that should be on fredstake.com soon:


Jan Vs Jermaine 1st year comparison

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... 01&y2=2012

Ok, before you'll (or y'all) freak out, just look at the numbers. I know this is sacreligious to the EG haters but so be it. This isn't about saying Jan is the franchise cornerstone or the heart of this team but it is interesting to see their similarities and realize Jan has nice potential if used correctly.

Both 6-11. Jan is thinker (tomato/ tamatoe) at 240 ( apparently jan also uses a different scale to weight himself).

Neither played college ball.
One was teammates with Rasheed Wallace. The other plays for a franchise that drafted Rasheed Wallace.
Both have names that begin with J (although one can't hit a j, the other has hit a few j's in his lifetime)
Both showed tones of swag confidence at the draft.

OK. Let the freak out name calling begin. I've been making this comparison for years and will stick my 7 year Wizboard reputation on it.


That was awesome. :lol:
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Post#20 Re: Crawford vs Arenas 3rd Year Comparision
Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:51 am by jivelikenice

This comparison is an insult o Gil. Jordan doesn't have Gil's shooting range, shooting ability, ability to get to the basket, strength/quickness combo, ability to get on the line, or handles.....there's no comparison.
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