Bradley Beal - Part II

Higga · Post #841 » by **Higga** » Mon May 19, 2014 2:46 pm

I expect Beal to make a jump next year. Big jump? I don't know, depends how you define big. I do think he'll be a 20 PPG player and be an All-Star contender(whether he makes it or not who knows, since half the battle is dumb fan voting/reputation). If that defines big then yes, big jump.

hands11 · Post #842 » by **hands11** » Mon May 19, 2014 10:09 pm

jangles86 wrote:Isn't Gooden a stretch 4?

He is both a S4 and S5

But there is a mad desire around here that we find younger players.

Personally, I think he is fine in that role.

We have younger players in Wall, Beal and Otto.

We can add some mid aged types at PG/SG and an offensive rebounder which would really be replacing Booker and Kevin S.

I don't think they will get much younger next year unless they trade Nene and Webster.

But keeping a ton younger players isn't really needed right now. Getting better is more important.

dckingsfan · Post #843 » by **dckingsfan** » Tue May 20, 2014 1:00 pm

Higga wrote:I expect Beal to make a jump next year. Big jump? I don't know, depends how you define big. I do think he'll be a 20 PPG player and be an All-Star contender(whether he makes it or not who knows, since half the battle is dumb fan voting/reputation). If that defines big then yes, big jump.

I will take what I would like to see from Beal next year.

1) eFG% needs to go up to .500. Less long 2s, more 3s. Get to the FT line more often.

On the long 2s - I am not sure how that is going to come - at least from the discussion on this board we seem to think (opinion) that the coaching staff is encouraging the long 2.

On getting to the FT line he needs to study Harden/Martin.

2) He needs to (continue - he did improve) his assist output/percentage. I would say he needs to get his AST% to 20%.

That means getting into the lane more and seeing the open man. I think that will come. I think he has made real progress on that aspect of his game.

3) He needs to (continue - he did improve) his defense - especially in the first quarter when he seems to drift.

I think that has to do with the number of minutes he is playing. 34.7 mpg is just silly. Wittman has choices and needs to get that number closer to 30.

4) He needs to figure out a way to come out better earlier in games. I don't have the numbers (maybe someone can prove me wrong) but it seems like the first quarter is his worst.

Visualization? Getting pulled early? Don't know what it will take.

Post #844 » by **nate33** » Tue May 20, 2014 1:19 pm

In the regular season, he averaged per 36 minutes:
17.8 points, 3.9 boards, 3.5 assists, .507 TS%

In the post season, he averaged per 36 minutes:
16.6 points, 4.2 boards, 3.9 assists, .533 TS%

He did his post-season work in low-scoring games against 2 of the top 5 perimeter defenders in the NBA.

I hope he can just sustain his post-season level for the regular season, with his numbers rising accordingly due to the faster pace and less defensive attention. I'd be thrilled to see something like:

18.5 points, 4.0 boards, 4.2 assists, .545 TS%

Nothing too ambitious. Just better overall efficiency and continued improvement as a lead guard running the pick and roll.

dckingsfan · Post #845 » by **dckingsfan** » Tue May 20, 2014 1:51 pm

Agreed - but with the assists closer to 5.

DCZards · Post #846 » by **DCZards** » Tue May 20, 2014 2:05 pm

nate33 wrote:In the regular season, he averaged per 36 minutes:
17.8 points, 3.9 boards, 3.5 assists, .507 TS%

In the post season, he averaged per 36 minutes:
16.6 points, 4.2 boards, 3.9 assists, .533 TS%

He did his post-season work in low-scoring games against 2 of the top 5 perimeter defenders in the NBA.

I hope he can just sustain his post-season level for the regular season, with his numbers rising accordingly due to the faster pace and less defensive attention. I'd be thrilled to see something like:

18.5 points, 4.0 boards, 4.2 assists, .545 TS%

Nothing too ambitious. Just better overall efficiency and continued improvement as a lead guard running the pick and roll.

Those are reasonable expectations that I agree with. BB doesn't need to make a "big jump" next season just steady and continued improvement. Beal is going to be a VERY good NBA player--one of the top 2 or 3 SGs in the game--but we need to give him time to get there.

dckingsfan · Post #847 » by **dckingsfan** » Tue May 20, 2014 2:26 pm

Zards, what is your list of top SGs and who do you thing Beal will pass next year.

Post #848 » by **nate33** » Tue May 20, 2014 4:22 pm

dckingsfan wrote:Agreed - but with the assists closer to 5.

It's real hard to average 5+ assists a game unless you are the primary ball handler. He's going to have his share of 7 and 8 assist games to be sure, but he's also going to have a bunch of games when the offense runs mostly through Wall and Beal ends up with just 2 assists.

Look around the league. The only "shooting guards" who post 5 assists per 36 minutes are teams whose shooting guards are essentially the point guard when they are on the floor. Wade, Harden and Ginobili. That's about it. Wade and Harden don't even play with conventional PG's. Their PG teammates are really just 3&D shooters.

Mizerooskie · Post #849 » by **Mizerooskie** » Tue May 20, 2014 9:43 pm

dckingsfan wrote:Zards, what is your list of top SGs and who do you thing Beal will pass next year.

Not directed at me, but I made the same claim as he did a few days ago, so I'll answer. I think the SG ranks go something like this:

Harden
Wade
Kobe
DeRozan
Dragic
Ellis
Stephenson
Hayward
Thompson
Beal

I think right now, you could argue he could be as high as 6, behind Dragic. Next season, I expect him to definitely pass Thompson, Hayward, Ellis, and Stephenson. He could easily pass Wade and Kobe due to age decline. I think he's got a much more rounded tool set than Dragiic and DeRozan. Ultimately, his ceiling puts him only below Harden offensively, IMO. And depending how you value defense, he could pass Harden all-around. Who he passes on that list next season depends on how big of a step forward he takes.

I think his trajectory puts him top 5 after next season, behind Harden, DeRozan, Kobe, and Wade, and he passes the older two and DeRozan the season after.

Youheardme90 · Post #850 » by **Youheardme90** » Wed May 21, 2014 12:53 am

Mizerooskie wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:Zards, what is your list of top SGs and who do you thing Beal will pass next year.

Not directed at me, but I made the same claim as he did a few days ago, so I'll answer. I think the SG ranks go something like this:

Harden
Wade
Kobe
DeRozan
Dragic
Ellis
Stephenson
Hayward
Thompson
Beal

I think right now, you could argue he could be as high as 6, behind Dragic. Next season, I expect him to definitely pass Thompson, Hayward, Ellis, and Stephenson. He could easily pass Wade and Kobe due to age decline. I think he's got a much more rounded tool set than Dragiic and DeRozan. Ultimately, his ceiling puts him only below Harden offensively, IMO. And depending how you value defense, he could pass Harden all-around. Who he passes on that list next season depends on how big of a step forward he takes.

I think his trajectory puts him top 5 after next season, behind Harden, DeRozan, Kobe, and Wade, and he passes the older two and DeRozan the season after.

I agree with you, but when did Dragic become a 2 guard, I always thought he was a PG.

Mizerooskie · Post #851 » by **Mizerooskie** » Wed May 21, 2014 12:56 am

Youheardme90 wrote:
Mizerooskie wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:Zards, what is your list of top SGs and who do you thing Beal will pass next year.

Not directed at me, but I made the same claim as he did a few days ago, so I'll answer. I think the SG ranks go something like this:

Harden
Wade
Kobe
DeRozan
Dragic
Ellis
Stephenson
Hayward
Thompson
Beal

I think right now, you could argue he could be as high as 6, behind Dragic. Next season, I expect him to definitely pass Thompson, Hayward, Ellis, and Stephenson. He could easily pass Wade and Kobe due to age decline. I think he's got a much more rounded tool set than Dragiic and DeRozan. Ultimately, his ceiling puts him only below Harden offensively, IMO. And depending how you value defense, he could pass Harden all-around. Who he passes on that list next season depends on how big of a step forward he takes.

I think his trajectory puts him top 5 after next season, behind Harden, DeRozan, Kobe, and Wade, and he passes the older two and DeRozan the season after.

I agree with you, but when did Dragic become a 2 guard, I always thought he was a PG.

I figure one of Dragic and Bledose has to be the 2 guard, so I went with Dragic. They're both kind combo guards, I suppose.

dckingsfan · Post #852 » by **dckingsfan** » Wed May 21, 2014 1:11 pm

Mizerooskie wrote:
Youheardme90 wrote:
Mizerooskie wrote:Not directed at me, but I made the same claim as he did a few days ago, so I'll answer. I think the SG ranks go something like this:

Harden
Wade
Kobe
DeRozan
Dragic
Ellis
Stephenson
Hayward
Thompson
Beal

I think right now, you could argue he could be as high as 6, behind Dragic. Next season, I expect him to definitely pass Thompson, Hayward, Ellis, and Stephenson. He could easily pass Wade and Kobe due to age decline. I think he's got a much more rounded tool set than Dragiic and DeRozan. Ultimately, his ceiling puts him only below Harden offensively, IMO. And depending how you value defense, he could pass Harden all-around. Who he passes on that list next season depends on how big of a step forward he takes.

I think his trajectory puts him top 5 after next season, behind Harden, DeRozan, Kobe, and Wade, and he passes the older two and DeRozan the season after.

I agree with you, but when did Dragic become a 2 guard, I always thought he was a PG.

I figure one of Dragic and Bledose has to be the 2 guard, so I went with Dragic. They're both kind combo guards, I suppose.

Both PGs... but nice list. Kobe and Wade will age fast over the next two years. So, he has a chance to become a top 5 SG.

dckingsfan · Post #853 » by **dckingsfan** » Thu May 22, 2014 1:52 am

Another perspective - http://www.cbssports.com/nba/playerrank ... rseason/SG

By having Ariza as a SG - they lose some cred

dangermouse · Post #854 » by **dangermouse** » Thu May 22, 2014 4:00 am

I dunno about that list, I might be wrong but I'd rather have Afflalo over Wes Matthews, Hayward and Lance. Thats just from what ive seen in games this year though, they might be better than the smattering of games i saw. I know Lance can ball but i feel like he has Diva written all over him.

Apart from Harden, there isnt anyone in that top 10 that i'd prefer over Beal. And even then i cant stand Harden's floptastic efforts so i'd have to take Beal just for the way he plays and his personality. Id rather win honorably.

jivelikenice · Post #855 » by **jivelikenice** » Thu May 22, 2014 5:46 pm

Btw folks, I started contributing to wizofawes.com. My latest is debating if the Wiz should offer Beal for Love (I'm on the side of keeping Real Deal Beal). Check it out if you get a chance. Any feedback would be appreciated!

http://wizofawes.com/2014/05/21/nba-tra ... evin-love/

fishercob · Post #856 » by **fishercob** » Thu May 22, 2014 6:44 pm

jivelikenice wrote:Btw folks, I started contributing to wizofawes.com. My latest is debating if the Wiz should offer Beal for Love (I'm on the side of keeping Real Deal Beal). Check it out if you get a chance. Any feedback would be appreciated!

http://wizofawes.com/2014/05/21/nba-tra ... evin-love/

Does Akbar post here? He's great on Twitter.

jivelikenice · Post #857 » by **jivelikenice** » Thu May 22, 2014 8:09 pm

I think he reads posts here but I don't think he posts himself....

hands11 · Post #858 » by **hands11** » Fri May 23, 2014 1:19 am

Mizerooskie wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:Zards, what is your list of top SGs and who do you thing Beal will pass next year.

Not directed at me, but I made the same claim as he did a few days ago, so I'll answer. I think the SG ranks go something like this:

Harden
Wade
Kobe
DeRozan
Dragic
Ellis
Stephenson
Hayward
Thompson
Beal

I think right now, you could argue he could be as high as 6, behind Dragic. Next season, I expect him to definitely pass Thompson, Hayward, Ellis, and Stephenson. He could easily pass Wade and Kobe due to age decline. I think he's got a much more rounded tool set than Dragiic and DeRozan. Ultimately, his ceiling puts him only below Harden offensively, IMO. And depending how you value defense, he could pass Harden all-around. Who he passes on that list next season depends on how big of a step forward he takes.

I think his trajectory puts him top 5 after next season, behind Harden, DeRozan, Kobe, and Wade, and he passes the older two and DeRozan the season after.

Depends on Kobe and Wades drop off. The are seasoned vet and AS/HOF players so they have that savvy. But injuries are catching up with them.

Ellis is better better and I don't think he will fade next year. His weakness was his mind and he fit and matured in Dallas.

Like you, I think Beal will move up the charts. How much next year, I hope a lot but if not next year, he should be full on in two years. He does have great potential.

hands11 · Post #859 » by **hands11** » Fri May 23, 2014 1:20 am

dangermouse wrote:I dunno about that list, I might be wrong but I'd rather have Afflalo over Wes Matthews, Hayward and Lance. Thats just from what ive seen in games this year though, they might be better than the smattering of games i saw. I know Lance can ball but i feel like he has Diva written all over him.

Apart from Harden, there isnt anyone in that top 10 that i'd prefer over Beal. And even then i cant stand Harden's floptastic efforts so i'd have to take Beal just for the way he plays and his personality. Id rather win honorably.

Good point about Afflalo. If he wasn't on a non playoff team he would get more props.

Post #860 » by **montestewart** » Fri May 23, 2014 1:29 am

jivelikenice wrote:Btw folks, I started contributing to wizofawes.com. My latest is debating if the Wiz should offer Beal for Love (I'm on the side of keeping Real Deal Beal). Check it out if you get a chance. Any feedback would be appreciated!

http://wizofawes.com/2014/05/21/nba-tra ... evin-love/

Good point/counterpoint, although your side somewhat of overwhelms by sheer volume. Thanks.