Verizon Center Crowd...NBA's Worst Sixth Man???

[AWIZZINGBULLET]

I've felt for a long time that the Verizon Center is home to some of the more bourgeois fans in the NBA.

I think the Verizon Center crowd is ass-backwards in many ways. I'm watching last night's game, Wizards versus Knicks, John Wall is lighting it up, was perfect or somewhere near perfection when he first exited the ballgame, i'm expecting a standing ovation from the home crowd or at least a good volume of applause to show an appreciation of the work that Wall put in, but you get next to nothing. Rewind back to Wall's standout game last season versus the Memphis Grizzlies at home where he dropped 47 points, he had to implore the 'Phone Booth' to make noise and get loud just as Gilbert Arenas would do many times during his tenure with the team.

It's as though the crowd doesn't want to give too much back to its players for a job well done.

The Wizards play the L.A. Lakers next Tuesday at home, goodness forbid that be the night Kobe makes his season debut because the Verizon Center will magically transform into the Staples Center. There will likely be plenty of ooh-ing and ahh-ing, but it's unlikely that it will be for John Wall. As pretentious and highbrow as the Verizon crowd can act towards its own star players, it never fails to bow down to the Kobe's or LeBron's of the NBA world.

If it isn't a Kobe dunk that gets the Phone Booth crowd off, it'll be two missed Kobe free throws and the free chicken sandwiches that will.

[nate33]

Yes, the Verizon crowd is awful. DC is also a weird place because so many people are not from there. Furthermore, the team has been awful for so long that there is no tradition with the team. Seriously, how many people under the age of 40 LIKE the Wizards?

[DCZards]

I've felt for a long time that the Verizon Center is home to some of the more bourgeois fans in the NBA.

I think the Verizon Center crowd is ass-backwards in many ways. I'm watching last night's game, Wizards versus Knicks, John Wall is lighting it up, was perfect or somewhere near perfection when he first exited the ballgame, i'm expecting a standing ovation from the home crowd or at least a good volume of applause to show an appreciation of the work that Wall put in, but you get next to nothing. Rewind back to Wall's standout game last season versus the Memphis Grizzlies at home where he dropped 47 points, he had to implore the 'Phone Booth' to make noise and get loud just as Gilbert Arenas would do many times during his tenure with the team.

I disagree. I was also at the Memphis game and I thought the crowd was turned on by Wall's performance and was electric most of the night. Wall's imploring them helped but that crowd was with him from the start of his run that night, IMO.

I travel a lot and have made it a habit to visit as many different NBA arenas as I can. I'm up to about 12 arenas. There's a lot to like about the Zards crowd, including its racial diversity. I also don't doubt that when the Zards begin to play well on a consistent basis you'll find that the Verizon Ctr crowd is as good as most other NBA crowds.

[keynote]

Yeah, the DC area hasn't really embraced the Bullets/Wizards since the mid-'80s, at least. I went to a small high school in Takoma Park in the late 80s/early 90s, and my friends used to laugh at me fore being a Bullets fan. Everyone rooted for the Lakers or Bulls instead.

Sure, DC is transient - but that's no excuse. Residents have managed to stay fairly ride-or-die for the Skins, despite the fact that they've been fairly mediocre for ~20 years. Sure, fans of other nearby teams (e.g., Pittsburgh, Philly, NY) might travel to FedEx, but that's not uncommon in the NFL. I'd wager that most of the fans at Wizards' games rooting for the away team are based in the DMV.

[montestewart]

The Skins have more of a tradition, both in longevity as a DC franchise and in winning (even withbtheir recent failures, they have 3 titles in 5 appearances just in the Super Bowl era). Wizards can't compare with that. But then I look at the Nationals and see all the fans, natives and transplants, that embraced that team as their own.

Not sure why Verizon Center seems so dead sometimes, but I've seen it come to life when Wall (Arenas, Jamison, Webber, etc.) lights it up, or when the team takes it to the Celtics, Heat, Lakers, Cavs, Bulls, etc. Nothing inspires fandom like winning.

[DCsOwn]

I've always felt like DC sports fans needlessly self-flagellate. Are we the greatest fans around, the answers no, but we support our teams pretty well. The Caps had a 180+ game sellout streak coming into this season, and they haven't made an ECF since the late 90's. The Nats were fifth in attendance in the NL and probably would've been higher if they didnt crap the bed this season. The Skins have a sellout streak dating back to the 60's and that's through some wretched stretches of football. DC United used to have tremendous support before they fell completely off the map for multiple years in succession and even now they can sellout a big game whenever they play in one i.e. their playoff game against NY last season. That's not the track record of a bad fan base.

The Wizards haven't won 50 games in an individual season in a generation. Literally a generation. 50 games wouldn't have gotten a team in the Western Conference playoffs a few seasons ago and that result was better than anything the Wizards have produced since the 70's. Our halcyon days are a first round sweep in which we promptly blew up our team and traded away vlauable young players that people could have supported for a decade and a group that got out of the first round once and promptly swept in the second. They don't deserve a rabid fanbase based on that alone and then you factor in the Arenas fiasco, the Webber and Wallace trade fiascos, the Ernie tenure (which has been a debacle), the Unseld tenure (Ike Austin for Ben Wallace anyone?), the Jordan tenure etc., and they've basically lost a generation of fans. I go to as many Wizards games as my schedule permits, usually around 20 or so, but I don't blame anyone for refusing to pay the freight to see this piss poor organization's product. Don't blame the fans, that's essentially blaming the victim, indict the organization that's tasked with fielding a quality product for people to consume.

[dckingsfan]

Well said DCsOwn... Ted needs to figure out how to build a winner - he still has EG - so not much will change.

[20MexicanosIn1Van]

The place was pretty poppin' in the Gilbert days.

Kind of off-topic, but I really miss that song that would play in the Gilbert days at the Verizon Center after a Wizards win. Anyone know the song I'm talking about?

[AFM]

The place was pretty poppin' in the Gilbert days.

Kind of off-topic, but I really miss that song that would play in the Gilbert days at the Verizon Center after a Wizards win. Anyone know the song I'm talking about?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAlpG7kODzg[/youtube]

[hands11]

Yeah, the DC area hasn't really embraced the Bullets/Wizards since the mid-'80s, at least. I went to a small high school in Takoma Park in the late 80s/early 90s, and my friends used to laugh at me fore being a Bullets fan. Everyone rooted for the Lakers or Bulls instead.

Sure, DC is transient - but that's no excuse. Residents have managed to stay fairly ride-or-die for the Skins, despite the fact that they've been fairly mediocre for ~20 years. Sure, fans of other nearby teams (e.g., Pittsburgh, Philly, NY) might travel to FedEx, but that's not uncommon in the NFL. I'd wager that most of the fans at Wizards' games rooting for the away team are based in the DMV.

Mostly its just about winning. That is true in every area. Sports. Politics. Etc. People don't want to me emotionally or financial invested in losers.

Those that stick around for the losing had some kind of bound that most likely happened when they were younger. Maybe they watched games with family. Maybe the team was better back then. At that point, it's more like watching reality TV or a soap opera. You follow because you know all the details. That becomes the entertainment more then just winning.

I'm a fan of good basketball and talent so I was a fan of MJ and the Bulls, the Magic Lakers, the Birld Celtics, and now the Duncan Spurs. If I was at a game and the Wizards where playing the Bulls, would I be owwwing and ahhhing over the Bulls and MJ ? Hell yeah. Would I also cheer on the Wizards if they beat them ? Yeep.

I think that is what you see at a lot of home games. Its that simple. Win more over a sustained period and there will be more home fans that are more vocal. From there, its about what they do at the start of the game to get the fans pumped up. Chicago had a great way to open a game. From there, its about what the players do to get the fans pumped up early. Solid D. Break away dunks. Nailing 3s. Great passing. Diving for balls. Taking the lead. Gotta be something. The people want to be entertained.

It does have something to do with the personality of a region, but mostly it has to do with winning. It all adds up. Bragging rights. Not looking like an idiot to coworkers, the gf or wife, etc for following a losing team.

[hands11]

I've always felt like DC sports fans needlessly self-flagellate. Are we the greatest fans around, the answers no, but we support our teams pretty well. The Caps had a 180+ game sellout streak coming into this season, and they haven't made an ECF since the late 90's. The Nats were fifth in attendance in the NL and probably would've been higher if they didnt crap the bed this season. The Skins have a sellout streak dating back to the 60's and that's through some wretched stretches of football. DC United used to have tremendous support before they fell completely off the map for multiple years in succession and even now they can sellout a big game whenever they play in one i.e. their playoff game against NY last season. That's not the track record of a bad fan base.

The Wizards haven't won 50 games in an individual season in a generation. Literally a generation. 50 games wouldn't have gotten a team in the Western Conference playoffs a few seasons ago and that result was better than anything the Wizards have produced since the 70's. Our halcyon days are a first round sweep in which we promptly blew up our team and traded away vlauable young players that people could have supported for a decade and a group that got out of the first round once and promptly swept in the second. They don't deserve a rabid fanbase based on that alone and then you factor in the Arenas fiasco, the Webber and Wallace trade fiascos, the Ernie tenure (which has been a debacle), the Unseld tenure (Ike Austin for Ben Wallace anyone?), the Jordan tenure etc., and they've basically lost a generation of fans. I go to as many Wizards games as my schedule permits, usually around 20 or so, but I don't blame anyone for refusing to pay the freight to see this piss poor organization's product. Don't blame the fans, that's essentially blaming the victim, indict the organization that's tasked with fielding a quality product for people to consume.

As someone who is involved in product development and marketing, I always lean toward great product first.

Marketing can help level out the down times when the product isn't as good, and it can maximize the demand for a good or great product if you have that, but it can't save a crappy product with a poor or bad brand name against better products that are marketed well and have better brand awareness. That's where the Wizards are. They have a decent/good product in the components Wall, Beal, Webster, Trevor A, Nene, and Gortat with maybe even Otto and Ves with poor brand awareness. Now they have to prove the pieces can be assembled to make a good product, and that to me is on the coach along with a little luck regarding heath.

It always starts with a good product. That's why Ted is so locked in on wining now and maximizing Wall and Beals development this year (learning what playoff style basketball is about). They have to get that now. They are the core of this product. He has to do that even if that means sacrificing some future assets. They did a rebuild. They said they would be bad. But you can only do that for so long. People follow winners. Its time to see results. Even if we know they didn't maximize all their assets to get there, most don't follow that closely. All they know is they are winning or they aren't. Being in the playoff race or in the playoffs will washing away a lot of stink from the low of gungate, and years of mismanagement under Abe. Ted needs to show the average fan things are different and headed in the right direction so people will invest time and money over other options. They have to get people to start to dipping their big toe in the water again.

Winning will attract more fans and players. That adds to the bottom line and that allows you to invest, and make better moves in players, front office personnel, and infrastructure. It also makes promotions more effective. Winning makes everything easier. Its additive.

They have rebuilt their talent since getting Wall. They added Beal who is squeaky clean and a great shooter. They cleaned house via players. Next move would be to win so they can upgrade the front office and coaching. They dug out of the gutter from terrible to what should be a decent/good. Now it will be important to reload on the run from decent/good to a foundation that allows them to become great.

That's Ted's challenge. His next move(s) will be critical. But with Wall, Beal and hopefully Otto, he has a little more wiggle room. Much more then he has had since he took over. Clearly the smart move would be to get a top notch GM because to become great, you can't be average. 2nd round picks matter more. As do all the little moves. EG does ok. He has made some down right awesome moves. But he also doesn't dot the I's and cross the T's enough. I just don't see that he has it in him to put it all together. To me it's the little moves like Glen not looking like the right pick. Letting Mason walk when you still needed him. Selling Crawford for nothing when you still needed him. Missing out on better players instead of Singleton. And not getting a center in this last draft. Its not even about moves like Ves. Its all the other ones. You only get 15 total and 13 active players. You gotta make it count. If nothing else I would do a check. Is this a player SA would add ?

But being average doesn't mean you suck. Most organizations make mistakes. Problem is, if you want to be the best, you have to get the best. That's the standard Ted needs to set next. Its really on all him.

[20MexicanosIn1Van]

The place was pretty poppin' in the Gilbert days.

Kind of off-topic, but I really miss that song that would play in the Gilbert days at the Verizon Center after a Wizards win. Anyone know the song I'm talking about?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAlpG7kODzg[/youtube]

YES!!

[hands11]

The place was pretty poppin' in the Gilbert days.

Kind of off-topic, but I really miss that song that would play in the Gilbert days at the Verizon Center after a Wizards win. Anyone know the song I'm talking about?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAlpG7kODzg[/youtube]

That something I think they need to fix if they haven't.

Bulls nailed it with their intros. That worked for everyone. Very dramatic. Lots of power. Theatrical. Mystical. Technical with animation and lazers.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVuGyw0VFWY[/youtube]

Not terrible. Headed in the right direction. The James Brown music is kind of cool. The flame was kind of cool. The court graphics where kind of sloppy. I would want something with the players names showing up.

But this is how you get it done.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGEl5WI7AAI[/youtube]

Always loved the Bulls games intros.

Even back in 1997 they know how to do it.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zn6kiimEsYc[/youtube]

[dlts20]

the crowd has always been by far the worst in the league but they can be pretty solid when we are playing well and are great in the playoffs but I actually like our HCA. I think its pretty much so dead that road teams cant get up to play in the building. It has the reverse effect that it should have and ends up helping us....lol

[80sballboy]

This is a boring team for casual fans with no real stars. How was the crowd during the Arenas-Jamison-Butler era? Pretty good because we had exciting team and a legit star before he got hurt and went crazi(er).

I enjoy watching basketball and this team is at least interesting to me. But not super exciting when you've seen John Wall run up the floor 400 times and drive for a layup. When you're best high flyer is a 6-11 athlete who can't shoot a lick, you don't have a super marketable product.

Winning would take care a lot of those things and going to the playoffs would be a start.

[Upper Decker]

Is the OP a joke? Dead serious. Everything about this franchise is pathetic. The name, the history, the records, the ownership / management, and the players have been impossible to support individually. How can any rational person even question why they receive little support from the "6th man"?

[dlts20]

This is a boring team for casual fans with no real stars. How was the crowd during the Arenas-Jamison-Butler era? Pretty good because we had exciting team and a legit star before he got hurt and went crazi(er).

I enjoy watching basketball and this team is at least interesting to me. But not super exciting when you've seen John Wall run up the floor 400 times and drive for a layup. When you're best high flyer is a 6-11 athlete who can't shoot a lick, you don't have a super marketable product.

Winning would take care a lot of those things and going to the playoffs would be a start.

you must not be must of a fan because the crowd sucked then also

[DCsOwn]

This is a boring team for casual fans with no real stars. How was the crowd during the Arenas-Jamison-Butler era? Pretty good because we had exciting team and a legit star before he got hurt and went crazi(er).

I enjoy watching basketball and this team is at least interesting to me. But not super exciting when you've seen John Wall run up the floor 400 times and drive for a layup. When you're best high flyer is a 6-11 athlete who can't shoot a lick, you don't have a super marketable product.

Winning would take care a lot of those things and going to the playoffs would be a start.

you must not be must of a fan because the crowd sucked then also

The crowds didnt suck at all during the Agent Zero era, especially during the east coast assassin phase. I also don't think that our crowd is the worst in the league presently. Atlanta, Detroit, Philadelphia and Sacramento all have worse crowds at the moment, and Miami's crowd was exponentially worse than ours during that down period between the Wade-Shaq era and the Lebron decision.

[keynote]

A winning tradition is certainly the easiest way for a team to engender loyalty from its fan base, but it's certainly not the only way - nor is it a guarantee. The Cubs are well-known for their longstanding futility, yet they've nurtured an extremely loyal fan base. The pre-Brady Pats were no juggernaut, but their fans weren't considered to be fairweather.

Now, there aren't too man lovable loser teams in the NFL, but that's in part because league parity makes it so much easier to rebuild and be competitive year to year. Rebuilding in the NBA is hard, in contrast, and plenty of teams have stunk for long periods of time. But I can't think of too many examples of "lovable loser" franchises in the NBA that are analogous to the Cubs. The pre-Paul/Griffin Clippers had a few loyal fans (incl. Billy Crystal), but they've traditionally been dominated by the Lakers in a way that the Cubs will never be dominated by the White Sox.

Of course, part of this is due to the fact that the while MLB has traditionally marketed The Grand Pastime and the NFL has marketed the Franchises, the NBA has focused their marketing almost exclusively on Superstars and the Big Market Teams that stockpile them. This also means that the only NBA teams with national fan bases are the top teams that the NBA focuses their marketing $ on. I can certainly find a Raiders bar in NYC, and I can probably find a Mariners bar (I've never looked), but I doubt that I can find a Blazers or a Kings bar. And I wouldn't need to find a Heat bar, since the Heat are on every Sunday anyway. It's the reason why, when I go to the official NBA Store in NYC and ask if they carry Wizards shorts, the clerk tells me "nah, we only carry shorts for the main teams." I guarantee you that a clerk working for an official NFL store wouldn't make the same mistake.

Still, while that might explain why NBA teams struggle to sustain lovable loser status the way MLB teams can, it doesn't explain why some competitive NBA teams *still* struggle to connect with their fan bases. The Hawks, unlike the Wizards, have had a long history of competitive teams *and* a bona fide superstar icon in Dominique. Yet they're still known for having a fairly tepid fan base. I don't know what their problem is.

In any event, I'd wager that the ATL has a high number of NYC transplants, just like DC; I wonder if the Knicks get the same treatment in Atlanta that they get in the Phone Booth.

[dlts20]

This is a boring team for casual fans with no real stars. How was the crowd during the Arenas-Jamison-Butler era? Pretty good because we had exciting team and a legit star before he got hurt and went crazi(er).

I enjoy watching basketball and this team is at least interesting to me. But not super exciting when you've seen John Wall run up the floor 400 times and drive for a layup. When you're best high flyer is a 6-11 athlete who can't shoot a lick, you don't have a super marketable product.

Winning would take care a lot of those things and going to the playoffs would be a start.

you must not be must of a fan because the crowd sucked then also

The crowds didnt suck at all during the Agent Zero era, especially during the east coast assassin phase. I also don't think that our crowd is the worst in the league presently. Atlanta, Detroit, Philadelphia and Sacramento all have worse crowds at the moment, and Miami's crowd was exponentially worse than ours during that down period between the Wade-Shaq era and the Lebron decision.

I totally disagre. Fans use to always talk about it back then also. It was always mad quiet. More people may have wen to the games but its a very very very quiet atmosphere. Fans have told me that when they tried to get loud, that others would get upset with them. It was never loud unless we played like the Lakers or something and we all know what thats about. Only time it was legitmatly loud was win it was late in teh game or the playoffs. Sure Gil may have had that stretch but thats overrated also. Its not like it lasted a long time. Its a quiet crowd. Been like that for a while