Is Wall Top 5 PG?

[20MexicanosIn1Van]

Wow I think Greg Anthony's list is perfect. That's exactly my top 5.

[Nivek]

I love Wall, but I don't see him as an MVP candidate yet.

Can I ask why nivek? I respect your opinion. I don't think he'd be above Curry or Harden but I think there aren't to many else who are comfortably above him. He has the team record, the raw stats, the likeability, the leader of the team. He has all the credits to be MVP.

I get what you're saying, but I think there's going to be a pretty strong discount given to guys playing in the East. As for the stats, there really isn't an area where he sets himself clearly apart. In my stuff, he's having clearly the best season of his career, but also clearly some distance from the elite producers -- just outside the top 10 in total production and just outside the top 20 in per possession production.

In RPM, he's 13th so far this season, and the team has been about the same on offense whether he's been on the floor or not.

So far, in my stuff, he'd be first-team All-Defense. He continues to rank as the league's top defensive PG in the defense part of my metric, which is also true in RPM.

What's keeping Wall from being in that elite group I mentioned? The negative plays: shooting and turnovers.

[Nivek]

As for the top PGs... in my stuff as of today, Wall would be 7th on a per minute basis. Westbrook, Curry and Paul are clearly the top 3. Lillard is next. Then it's a tight group of Teague, Lowry, Conley and Wall. Then another step to Irving, and then a bigger one to the next group.

The scores of that group Wall's in are close enough that I'd classify them as "about the same" and it probably comes down to what you want to emphasize.

Wall rates as the most impactful defender -- Lowry and Conley rate as average; Teague as a good-not-outstanding defender. Wall's the least efficient on offense of that group by ~8 points per 100 possessions.

In TOTAL production, Wall currently sits 5th behind Curry, Paul, Lillard and Lowry. Wall has one fewer game than Lillard and Lowry, and they're so close together that if games were equal, Wall would be third.

[Dat2U]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/NBATV/status/545030486502801408[/tweet]

Wtf Isiah doing Wall dirty

Kyrie should be lower and Rose shouldnt even be on it. And i dont see Parker as first, thats for Steph Curry right now.

Just goes to show you Zeke is NOT a good evaluator of talent anymore...

I'd say that list fits well with Zeke's GM logic. That list is a joke (and VERY outdated) and his GM'ing skills were pretty much a joke too.

[Donkey McDonkerton]

As for the top PGs... in my stuff as of today, Wall would be 7th on a per minute basis. Westbrook, Curry and Paul are clearly the top 3. Lillard is next. Then it's a tight group of Teague, Lowry, Conley and Wall. Then another step to Irving, and then a bigger one to the next group.

The scores of that group Wall's in are close enough that I'd classify them as "about the same" and it probably comes down to what you want to emphasize.

Wall rates as the most impactful defender -- Lowry and Conley rate as average; Teague as a good-not-outstanding defender. Wall's the least efficient on offense of that group by ~8 points per 100 possessions.

In TOTAL production, Wall currently sits 5th behind Curry, Paul, Lillard and Lowry. Wall has one fewer game than Lillard and Lowry, and they're so close together that if games were equal, Wall would be third.

but do you see wall shimmy-ing? Do you see him pounding his chest, and getting the crowd into the game? Where are your phony statistics on energizing your club and getting everyone hyped? JOHN WALL MVP

Honestly, he's been so awesome to watch.

[Hypnotizer]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/NBATV/status/545030486502801408[/tweet]

One more piece of evidence showing why Isiah was such a **** GM.

My first thought was exactly the same as yours.

[Nivek]

As for the top PGs... in my stuff as of today, Wall would be 7th on a per minute basis. Westbrook, Curry and Paul are clearly the top 3. Lillard is next. Then it's a tight group of Teague, Lowry, Conley and Wall. Then another step to Irving, and then a bigger one to the next group.

The scores of that group Wall's in are close enough that I'd classify them as "about the same" and it probably comes down to what you want to emphasize.

Wall rates as the most impactful defender -- Lowry and Conley rate as average; Teague as a good-not-outstanding defender. Wall's the least efficient on offense of that group by ~8 points per 100 possessions.

In TOTAL production, Wall currently sits 5th behind Curry, Paul, Lillard and Lowry. Wall has one fewer game than Lillard and Lowry, and they're so close together that if games were equal, Wall would be third.

but do you see wall shimmy-ing? Do you see him pounding his chest, and getting the crowd into the game? Where are your phony statistics on energizing your club and getting everyone hyped? JOHN WALL MVP

Honestly, he's been so awesome to watch.

Wall is definitely the leader in 2nd half chest thumps and crowd noise instigating.

He trails Westbrook in "I think that rim was giving my girlfriend the yeah-baby eye" dunks. So does everyone, though.

[Kanyewest]

Wtf Isiah doing Wall dirty

Kyrie should be lower and Rose shouldnt even be on it. And i dont see Parker as first, thats for Steph Curry right now.

Just goes to show you Zeke is NOT a good evaluator of talent anymore...

Or never was?

Isiah is a good draft evaluator - but pretty much bad at everything else including holding on to draft picks.

His best draft picks
With Toronto/Knicks
- #7- 1995 - Damon Stoudemire
- #2- 1996 - Marcus Camby
- #9- 1997 - Tracy McGrady
- #43 - 2004 - Trevor Ariza
- #21 - 2005 - Nate Robinson
- #30- 2005 - David Lee
- #23 - 2007 - Wilson Chandler

[dckingsfan]

Just goes to show you Zeke is NOT a good evaluator of talent anymore...

Or never was?

Isiah is a good draft evaluator - but pretty much bad at everything else including holding on to draft picks.

His best draft picks
With Toronto/Knicks
- #7- 1995 - Damon Stoudemire
- #2- 1996 - Marcus Camby
- #9- 1997 - Tracy McGrady
- #43 - 2004 - Trevor Ariza
- #21 - 2005 - Nate Robinson
- #30- 2005 - David Lee
- #23 - 2007 - Wilson Chandler

Good point, that is a pretty solid list.

[Zonkerbl]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/NBATV/status/545030486502801408[/tweet]

So Isiah going the "who is the most popular player" route while Anthony going the "who is actually best at playing the pg position" one.

Wouldn't be surprised if this wasn't by design.

[TheBigThree]

Wall is awesome. He is playing the best basketball of his career and should probably start the ASG for the East.

That said, can people stop calling anyone who doesn't believe Wall should be MVP a hater on the General Board? While it's true that Wall does things that don't show up on the box score (we've certainly all seen it), it's an idiotic argument to make unless you watch every game for every team, all season.

Let's just enjoy how deep the PG position is right now and see where Wall is after 82 games. The improvement in his game has been stunning to me (I didn't think he was capable of playing with CP3-like pacing), but it's still early,

[blazinskillz]

The main board is consist of metric geeks so cherry pick statistics to players of their likings. Should players like Jason Kidd get a career refined looked at? Judging from the love this man gets you would of assume that a mvp (Tim Duncan is my 4th cousin and all time favorite player but a part of me thought Kidd deserved it )Kidd in 2002, would have such similar stats to a 24 yr old Jason Kidd

Sent from my SM-G900T using RealGM Forums mobile app

[hands11]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/NBATV/status/545030486502801408[/tweet]

So Isiah going the "who is the most popular player" route while Anthony going the "who is actually best at playing the pg position" one.

Wouldn't be surprised if this wasn't by design.

Good point. Casts a wider net to appeal to both audiences. Better for ratings and gives people something to debate over.

[deneem4]

the general board is lucky im banned...but wall is a top 3 point guard...
for the simple fact hes a pure 2 way guard leads in steals and blocks for pg...
top 3 in steals overall
top 5 in blocks for guards
is shooting the 3 better than lowry
better fg% than lowry as well
dont hsve to mention the playmaking

[jangles86]

I'm giving up with the general board. If you don't believe Kyle Lowry is the greatest thing since sliced bread then you are wrong.
Raptor fans are just so bias it's sad. For some sad reason every time Wall is mentioned, raptor fans feel like they need to defend Lowry and bring Wall down.

[hands11]

I'm giving up with the general board. If you don't believe Kyle Lowry is the greatest thing since sliced bread then you are wrong.
Raptor fans are just so bias it's sad. For some sad reason every time Wall is mentioned, raptor fans feel like they need to defend Lowry and bring Wall down.

Why do you think that is ?

[strudel forever]

the general board is lucky im banned...but wall is a top 3 point guard...
for the simple fact hes a pure 2 way guard leads in steals and blocks for pg...
top 3 in steals overall
top 5 in blocks for guards
is shooting the 3 better than lowry
better fg% than lowry as well
dont hsve to mention the playmaking

Kyle Lowry TS% = .555
John Wall TS% = .526

Kyle Lowry Offrtg = 113.1
John Wall Offrtg = 104.5

If you're going by stats, it's pretty obvious Kyle's been better offensively while leading the second most potent team offense (thus far) in NBA history.

Now this says nothing about how effective John's been on the defensive end, which Lowry simply cannot match.

[jangles86]

I'm giving up with the general board. If you don't believe Kyle Lowry is the greatest thing since sliced bread then you are wrong.
Raptor fans are just so bias it's sad. For some sad reason every time Wall is mentioned, raptor fans feel like they need to defend Lowry and bring Wall down.

Why do you think that is ?

Feel free to enlighten me sir

[deneem4]

the general board is lucky im banned...but wall is a top 3 point guard...
for the simple fact hes a pure 2 way guard leads in steals and blocks for pg...
top 3 in steals overall
top 5 in blocks for guards
is shooting the 3 better than lowry
better fg% than lowry as well
dont hsve to mention the playmaking

Kyle Lowry TS% = .555
John Wall TS% = .526

Kyle Lowry Offrtg = 113.1
John Wall Offrtg = 104.5

If you're going by stats, it's pretty obvious Kyle's been better offensively while leading the second most potent team offense (thus far) in NBA history.

Now this says nothing about how effective John's been on the defensive end, which Lowry simply cannot match.

lowry shoot more 3s and free throws...thats why his offrtg is higher...period...

not to mention the team personal....
ask kyle lowry himself

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/ ... john-wall/

[strudel forever]

the general board is lucky im banned...but wall is a top 3 point guard...
for the simple fact hes a pure 2 way guard leads in steals and blocks for pg...
top 3 in steals overall
top 5 in blocks for guards
is shooting the 3 better than lowry
better fg% than lowry as well
dont hsve to mention the playmaking

Kyle Lowry TS% = .555
John Wall TS% = .526

Kyle Lowry Offrtg = 113.1
John Wall Offrtg = 104.5

If you're going by stats, it's pretty obvious Kyle's been better offensively while leading the second most potent team offense (thus far) in NBA history.

Now this says nothing about how effective John's been on the defensive end, which Lowry simply cannot match.

lowry shoot more 3s and free throws...thats why his offrtg is higher...period...

Of course. And those are the best shots you could take .. Especially when you shoot them well enough to sport a .555 TS%