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Predicting the Eastern Conference Standings 2014/2015 Season

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Re: Predicting the Eastern Conference Standings 2014/2015 Se 

Post#241 » by doclinkin » Fri Oct 3, 2014 3:00 pm

And adding depth in players like Shawn Marion and Mike Miller does not hurt. And having followed David Blatt's Euro career, every team he landed on made a significant jump in the standings. He just knows the game, LeBJ + Love are a good fit for the Princeton style outside in motion offense he runs, you may even see LeBJ as a highpost center in smallball sets with Marion and Love on the wings, Uncle Drew and Waiters attacking the interior while opponents have no idea where to guard. Not happy but the Cavs fans will have reason to get annoyingly chesty again.

I think people are sleeping on Atlanta as well. They played well and challenged in the playoffs on coaching alone. And now they add back their best player while Teague I suspect will be in All-star conversations. Horford's freak injuries were torn pectoral muscles in back-to-back years based on too tough a lifting regimen, but he has changed his emphasis to core strength and changing his training routine could actually make him stronger -- I'd be concerned about reoccurence if he had leg or back injuries, but a torn pec is eminently fixable. Ask induveca who i'm sure will tell you more than you want to know on the topic of how massively huge he is and how he just got too strong for life :clown: Budenholzer will manage this team to contention, and better believe he knows how to blend the big dominican into a team (no not canned ham induveca, the other one). Horford's temperament is about as close to Tim Duncan as you get in the conference, they havn't had much of a chance but I like the synergy potential between Horford and Millsapp's games, but can play face-up or down low, both rebound well for their supposed underheight.

MIami will slip, depending on Wade's health. But they too look to have a tricky outside big man style that will confuse and frustrate some teams when they are on offense. Defense is more of a problem.

Indy? I don't know how they remain relevant this year with PG gone and Big HIbba as their workhorse. They have coaching and a sometimey big man and that's it.

One of the overlooked young teams will make an unforeseen jump. I think Philly will be better than they want to be, until they find a way to start tanking. ACW next to that lanky hightop cyborg will be a fun combo to watch. And they might get back Embiid late this year? Take the over on the Vegas line.

Orlando has a mix of talents I like, Aaron Gordon works his tail off on defense, ditto Oladipo, and they have bigs with skill and outside shots, I see them rising, showing streaks and flashes of what they may become, making a tough night for some teams even if they don't yet string it together long enough for a winning record.

No idea what's going to happen in Chicago. All depends on Rose. They have shown they can be good without him, and Taj Gibson has put on 15-20lbs of muscle. If Pau stays healthy then that frontline rotation (plus the rookie Doug McBuckets) will be dynamic and hard to handle, they have a more skilled version of what we have: size, length, finesse, outside options, interior scrappiness. They can contend for the ECF title, or they can fall apart from injuries. Hard to say.

And Toronto. Youth, depth, versatility, leadership, point guard play, developing outside players, young high motor bigs, ranged bigs. As far as top end talent hey have no one player who is transcendent (though DeRozan is rising) but I don't see a deeper more complete team in the league. I'm just glad David Blatt didn't land there since a chess-minded match-up magician could use the pieces they have to create exploitable match-ups in every game.

Against us. We added intriguing depth up front. Rebounding if not defense. I like the intangibles and leadership Paul Pierce adds. I'm eager to see youth develop in the backcourt and wings. I expect our regular season record will surely improve. I'm less sanguine that our post season advancement will be much better. As always much depends on health and our coaching staff's ability to manage veteran's minutes while getting the most out of the development of our talented younger players. Which in the past has been an area of concern on both counts.
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Re: Predicting the Eastern Conference Standings 2014/2015 Se 

Post#242 » by stevemcqueen1 » Fri Oct 3, 2014 3:11 pm

Dat2U wrote:
stevemcqueen1 wrote:
Dat2U wrote:The Cavs are a 65-win team IMO. Folks see weaknesses, I see two of the three best offensive forwards in the game on the same team that can provide the sort of spacing to be an offensive juggernaut. Frankly it's a bit unfair but life is going to incredibly easy for Irving & Waiters with all the attention that Love & James will command.

As long as James & Love are healthy, a conference finals appearance is a stone cold lock. Varejao's health and/or if they address depth up front will determine if they fall short or win it all. Maybe, maybe Chicago pushes them if and only if Rose returns close to top but the Cavs are heavy heavy favorites. I seriously question the analysis that says they are somehow overrated.


65 wins is a 32 win jump from last year. That's doubling their win total. Is there any combination of two players in the league that could account for a 32 win bump? I don't think so. If everything goes perfectly for them and they get fully healthy seasons from Love, Irving, and Varejao, and LeBron reverts to MVP form and Love experiences little drop off in individual production moving to a #2 or #3 option, then maybe you get to 60+ wins. But how likely is all of that to happen?

I think Cleveland can realistically get to 55, which in and of itself, is an ENORMOUS bump from last season. That'll put them in range for the one seed, but it won't make them a lock to get it.

Cleveland does have a legit weakness in that they're going to be a bad defensive team. That's probably going to limit their win ceiling this year, and it definitely will in the playoffs.


I'm no LeBron fan but man I swear I don't understand the total underestimation of his impact. What does it matter that they only won 33 games last year? This is totally different team with a new coach! You got the best player in the world AND you add the best offensive big in the game on top of that you think a 32 game jump is unrealistic? As if LeBron & Love's presence won't have any impact on the other players on the roster?


As of last year, Durant is the best player in the world, but even the best player in the world is not going to get you close to 32 more wins.

Love might be the best offensive big in the game, but after a certain point, you're only getting so much cumulative value from stacking up scorers on one team. There is only one basketball. And you're lessening that net impact overall when so many of those scorers are bad defensive players.

The net positive impact that Kevin Love had in Minnesota is derived almost entirely from his scoring and rebounding. That impact won't transfer fully to Cleveland where he'll be a #2 or #3 option. So if there was a basketball WAR-like stat that said Love was worth 10 wins in Minny, not all of that is coming to Cleveland in his new role.

I think Cleveland will be able to score 115 points a night and also have to score 115 points a night. I think we can expect Varejao to miss a ton of time and expect to see LeBron play most of his minutes at PF and Love play most of his minutes at C. In that lineup, they'll score a ton but be dreadful defensively. That's a serious weakness that limits their ceiling, and to me, this is the most realistic scenario for their season.
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Re: Predicting the Eastern Conference Standings 2014/2015 Se 

Post#243 » by improper » Fri Oct 3, 2014 5:46 pm

stevemcqueen1 wrote:65 wins is a 32 win jump from last year. That's doubling their win total. Is there any combination of two players in the league that could account for a 32 win bump?


You're forgetting the biggest replacement of all:

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Re: Predicting the Eastern Conference Standings 2014/2015 Se 

Post#244 » by Dat2U » Fri Oct 3, 2014 6:17 pm

If DeRozan is the best SG in the conference, then yikes! I'd still give it to Wade, injury concerns and all, there are just too many flaws with DeRozan to list him as the best. Frankly, I like Waiters game more than I do DeRozan's.

I'd put Joe Johnson as a close second behind Wade.

Beal if he takes a leap could be in the discussion but that would probably be more of statement on the lack of elite SGs in the league than Beal becoming a legit star.
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Re: Predicting the Eastern Conference Standings 2014/2015 Se 

Post#245 » by Nivek » Fri Oct 3, 2014 6:18 pm

For last season, I had Lebron and Love worth a combined 28.5 wins for their respective teams. The Wins Produced metric valued them at 36.7 wins. B-R's Win Shares metric had them at 30.2 wins combined. It's not a stretch to think those two will be able to add 27-30 wins to Cleveland's total from last year.
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Re: Predicting the Eastern Conference Standings 2014/2015 Se 

Post#246 » by hands11 » Fri Oct 3, 2014 11:12 pm

I would rather see us take out

TOR
Then CHI
Then CLE
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Re: Predicting the Eastern Conference Standings 2014/2015 Se 

Post#247 » by hands11 » Fri Oct 3, 2014 11:18 pm

Dat2U wrote:
stevemcqueen1 wrote:
Dat2U wrote:The Cavs are a 65-win team IMO. Folks see weaknesses, I see two of the three best offensive forwards in the game on the same team that can provide the sort of spacing to be an offensive juggernaut. Frankly it's a bit unfair but life is going to incredibly easy for Irving & Waiters with all the attention that Love & James will command.

As long as James & Love are healthy, a conference finals appearance is a stone cold lock. Varejao's health and/or if they address depth up front will determine if they fall short or win it all. Maybe, maybe Chicago pushes them if and only if Rose returns close to top but the Cavs are heavy heavy favorites. I seriously question the analysis that says they are somehow overrated.


65 wins is a 32 win jump from last year. That's doubling their win total. Is there any combination of two players in the league that could account for a 32 win bump? I don't think so. If everything goes perfectly for them and they get fully healthy seasons from Love, Irving, and Varejao, and LeBron reverts to MVP form and Love experiences little drop off in individual production moving to a #2 or #3 option, then maybe you get to 60+ wins. But how likely is all of that to happen?

I think Cleveland can realistically get to 55, which in and of itself, is an ENORMOUS bump from last season. That'll put them in range for the one seed, but it won't make them a lock to get it.

Cleveland does have a legit weakness in that they're going to be a bad defensive team. That's probably going to limit their win ceiling this year, and it definitely will in the playoffs.


I'm no LeBron fan but man I swear I don't understand the total underestimation of his impact. What does it matter that they only won 33 games last year? This is totally different team with a new coach! You got the best player in the world AND you add the best offensive big in the game on top of that you think a 32 game jump is unrealistic? As if LeBron & Love's presence won't have any impact on the other players on the roster?


Right. All that matters is the team they have this year.

Kyrie, LeBron and Love is an elite combination. Plus they do actually have a good defensive center and Miller, and Waiters doesn't suck off the bench. And Haywood if healthy can back up center. And the Matrix. etc.

They have a legit team and they still might not be done tweaking it. Injuries are always a concern but if they can stay healthy, they should be very good. And it won't take long at all to prove it. I don't see any issue with their big three getting it rolling.
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Re: Predicting the Eastern Conference Standings 2014/2015 Se 

Post#248 » by cammac » Sat Oct 4, 2014 12:50 am

hands11 wrote:I would rather see us take out

TOR
Then CHI
Then CLE


No disrespect but see Washington as 3rd seed and Toronto as 2nd seed in the East with Chicago 4th.

Realistically Washington hasn't the horses to beat Toronto other than your insane playoff experience theory.
Washington at best had a very neutral offseason with improvement based on Wall, Beal & perhaps Porter.
Loss of Ariza and Booker with the gain of Pierce, Hump and Blair neutral at best.
Gortat was a top 5 C in the East last year but has peaked and Nene will miss his 20 plus games.
Webster will be coming off injury and Andre one year older.

Toronto retained the core players Lowry, Vasquez, DeMar, Ross, Amir, Patterson, Hansbrough & Jonas.
They added depth with Williams and James Johnson.
Demar, Ross and Jonas will improve as young players.
They have 3 players on the bubble depending on what eventually happens to Fields & Hayes in Cherry, Hamilton & Stiemsma. With Stiemsma the likely favorite to be retained if Fields & Hayes are not bought out or traded.
The team expects nothing from Caboclo and Nogueira both raw rookies but both have interesting upsides.
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Re: Predicting the Eastern Conference Standings 2014/2015 Se 

Post#249 » by hands11 » Sat Oct 4, 2014 1:06 am

cammac wrote:
hands11 wrote:I would rather see us take out

TOR
Then CHI
Then CLE


No disrespect but see Washington as 3rd seed and Toronto as 2nd seed in the East with Chicago 4th.

Realistically Washington hasn't the horses to beat Toronto other than your insane playoff experience theory.
Washington at best had a very neutral offseason with improvement based on Wall, Beal & perhaps Porter.
Loss of Ariza and Booker with the gain of Pierce, Hump and Blair neutral at best.
Gortat was a top 5 C in the East last year but has peaked and Nene will miss his 20 plus games.
Webster will be coming off injury and Andre one year older.

Toronto retained the core players Lowry, Vasquez, DeMar, Ross, Amir, Patterson, Hansbrough & Jonas.
They added depth with Williams and James Johnson.
Demar, Ross and Jonas will improve as young players.
They have 3 players on the bubble depending on what eventually happens to Fields & Hayes in Cherry, Hamilton & Stiemsma. With Stiemsma the likely favorite to be retained if Fields & Hayes are not bought out or traded.
The team expects nothing from Caboclo and Nogueira both raw rookies but both have interesting upsides.


Only a TOR fan would be so clueless to not get the disrespect of posting something like that on another teams board.

Then to go on and detail moves of our team like we don't know our team.
Then to go on and brag about TOR like we don't know what happened with them. Wasn't hard to keep up with.

Go back to your board and come back when you have a clue. :nonono:

God I hope we get TOR in the first round. Nothing would make me happier then smacking them down. I guess we can start with some regular season butt kicking if someone else doesn't bumps them out of the playoffs before we can get a crack at them.
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Re: Predicting the Eastern Conference Standings 2014/2015 Se 

Post#250 » by cammac » Sat Oct 4, 2014 1:13 am

hands11 wrote:
cammac wrote:
hands11 wrote:I would rather see us take out

TOR
Then CHI
Then CLE


No disrespect but see Washington as 3rd seed and Toronto as 2nd seed in the East with Chicago 4th.

Realistically Washington hasn't the horses to beat Toronto other than your insane playoff experience theory.
Washington at best had a very neutral offseason with improvement based on Wall, Beal & perhaps Porter.
Loss of Ariza and Booker with the gain of Pierce, Hump and Blair neutral at best.
Gortat was a top 5 C in the East last year but has peaked and Nene will miss his 20 plus games.
Webster will be coming off injury and Andre one year older.

Toronto retained the core players Lowry, Vasquez, DeMar, Ross, Amir, Patterson, Hansbrough & Jonas.
They added depth with Williams and James Johnson.
Demar, Ross and Jonas will improve as young players.
They have 3 players on the bubble depending on what eventually happens to Fields & Hayes in Cherry, Hamilton & Stiemsma. With Stiemsma the likely favorite to be retained if Fields & Hayes are not bought out or traded.
The team expects nothing from Caboclo and Nogueira both raw rookies but both have interesting upsides.


Only a TOR fan would be so clueless to not get the disrespect of posting something like that on another teams board.

Then to go on and detail move of our team like we don't know our team.
Then to go on and brag about TOR like we don't know what happen with them. Was hard to keep up with.

Go back to your board and come back when you have a clue. :nonono:

God I hope we get TOR in the first round. Nothing would make me happier then smacking them down. I guess we can start with some regular season butt kicking if someone else bumps them out of the playoffs before we can get a crack at them.


Hardly disrespectful seeing Washington as 3rd seed where many or most of Washington fans see them being.
You have also posted your feelings on the Raptors board get a grip.
Plus absolutely nothing I have said is untrue!
Sorry if I hurt your delicate feelings.
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Re: Predicting the Eastern Conference Standings 2014/2015 Se 

Post#251 » by hands11 » Sat Oct 4, 2014 2:11 am

cammac wrote:
hands11 wrote:
cammac wrote:
No disrespect but see Washington as 3rd seed and Toronto as 2nd seed in the East with Chicago 4th.

Realistically Washington hasn't the horses to beat Toronto other than your insane playoff experience theory.
Washington at best had a very neutral offseason with improvement based on Wall, Beal & perhaps Porter.
Loss of Ariza and Booker with the gain of Pierce, Hump and Blair neutral at best.
Gortat was a top 5 C in the East last year but has peaked and Nene will miss his 20 plus games.
Webster will be coming off injury and Andre one year older.

Toronto retained the core players Lowry, Vasquez, DeMar, Ross, Amir, Patterson, Hansbrough & Jonas.
They added depth with Williams and James Johnson.
Demar, Ross and Jonas will improve as young players.
They have 3 players on the bubble depending on what eventually happens to Fields & Hayes in Cherry, Hamilton & Stiemsma. With Stiemsma the likely favorite to be retained if Fields & Hayes are not bought out or traded.
The team expects nothing from Caboclo and Nogueira both raw rookies but both have interesting upsides.


Only a TOR fan would be so clueless to not get the disrespect of posting something like that on another teams board.

Then to go on and detail move of our team like we don't know our team.
Then to go on and brag about TOR like we don't know what happen with them. Was hard to keep up with.

Go back to your board and come back when you have a clue. :nonono:

God I hope we get TOR in the first round. Nothing would make me happier then smacking them down. I guess we can start with some regular season butt kicking if someone else bumps them out of the playoffs before we can get a crack at them.


Hardly disrespectful seeing Washington as 3rd seed where many or most of Washington fans see them being.
You have also posted your feelings on the Raptors board get a grip.
Plus absolutely nothing I have said is untrue!
Sorry if I hurt your delicate feelings.


Ahh.. yeah. I'm all busted up over how clueless a few TOR fans are.

Its actually kind of a shame. I like the teams construction. Nothing like a young underdog story. And even some of the fans can be knowledgeable and fun to interact with. But in the large group that are TOR fans, they also tend to have to most clueless annoying fans as well.
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Re: Predicting the Eastern Conference Standings 2014/2015 Se 

Post#252 » by Sluggerface » Sat Oct 4, 2014 5:57 am

cammac wrote:Realistically Washington hasn't the horses to beat Toronto other than your insane playoff experience theory.



Washington's starting 5 was either neck and neck or flat out superior to Toronto's in all but one of the matchups they had last year. Washington has the "horses" to beat Toronto. Teams suddenly perform a lot better when you aren't running your starters into the ground in order to avoid playing Jan Vesely and Eric Maynor 20 minutes a game.

Washington at best had a very neutral offseason with improvement based on Wall, Beal & perhaps Porter.
Loss of Ariza and Booker with the gain of Pierce, Hump and Blair neutral at best.
Gortat was a top 5 C in the East last year but has peaked and Nene will miss his 20 plus games.
Webster will be coming off injury and Andre one year older.


I fail to see how this is some kind of slight. Improvement comes from continuity of keeping a core that was statistically one of the best starting units in the NBA. You can't say that Toronto is going to improve by keeping their young core and continuity together and then at the same time say that Washington will stay neutral. This is homerism at its finest. You wouldn't rag on San Antonio for keeping their starting five together.

Also, "Loss of Ariza and Booker with the gain of Pierce, Hump and Blair neutral at best." this is completely false. First of all, Booker got VASTLY overpaid this off-season. He's a tweener with an incredibly inconsistent offensive game and is an inconsistent defender as well - getting repeatedly beat by forwards that were either quicker or longer than him, he got by because of his strength. Washington's offensive rating took a nose dive when he was starting in place of Nene. Replacing him with the FAR more consistent combo of Humphries and Blair is a HUGE improvement. Blair averaged 17/17 and 5 steals per 36 in the playoffs last year, completely blowing what Booker did for this team out of the water. Ariza and Pierce are a push, only from a minutes per game stand point and defensive versatility. I'd be much more worried if Pierce's defensive concepts have left him, but his team defense is still there. Washington can live with getting long man defense from Rice and Porter.
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Re: Predicting the Eastern Conference Standings 2014/2015 Se 

Post#253 » by gambitx777 » Sat Oct 4, 2014 6:33 am

improper wrote:
stevemcqueen1 wrote:65 wins is a 32 win jump from last year. That's doubling their win total. Is there any combination of two players in the league that could account for a 32 win bump?


You're forgetting the biggest replacement of all:

Image


I think that jump could be possible, I mean they gutted that team, on the floor and on the side lines. only 5 players on that team played there last year. Plus that team, even with Miller, jones and Marrion, is still pretty youthful. They have some very big weapons and a good vet/youth ratio. 65 wins may no be far off if even thing goes well, but compatibility and durability issues could hinder them.
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Re: Predicting the Eastern Conference Standings 2014/2015 Se 

Post#254 » by hands11 » Sat Oct 4, 2014 4:36 pm

Sluggerface wrote:
cammac wrote:Realistically Washington hasn't the horses to beat Toronto other than your insane playoff experience theory.



Washington's starting 5 was either neck and neck or flat out superior to Toronto's in all but one of the matchups they had last year. Washington has the "horses" to beat Toronto. Teams suddenly perform a lot better when you aren't running your starters into the ground in order to avoid playing Jan Vesely and Eric Maynor 20 minutes a game.

Washington at best had a very neutral offseason with improvement based on Wall, Beal & perhaps Porter.
Loss of Ariza and Booker with the gain of Pierce, Hump and Blair neutral at best.
Gortat was a top 5 C in the East last year but has peaked and Nene will miss his 20 plus games.
Webster will be coming off injury and Andre one year older.


I fail to see how this is some kind of slight. Improvement comes from continuity of keeping a core that was statistically one of the best starting units in the NBA. You can't say that Toronto is going to improve by keeping their young core and continuity together and then at the same time say that Washington will stay neutral. This is homerism at its finest. You wouldn't rag on San Antonio for keeping their starting five together.

Also, "Loss of Ariza and Booker with the gain of Pierce, Hump and Blair neutral at best." this is completely false. First of all, Booker got VASTLY overpaid this off-season. He's a tweener with an incredibly inconsistent offensive game and is an inconsistent defender as well - getting repeatedly beat by forwards that were either quicker or longer than him, he got by because of his strength. Washington's offensive rating took a nose dive when he was starting in place of Nene. Replacing him with the FAR more consistent combo of Humphries and Blair is a HUGE improvement. Blair averaged 17/17 and 5 steals per 36 in the playoffs last year, completely blowing what Booker did for this team out of the water. Ariza and Pierce are a push, only from a minutes per game stand point and defensive versatility. I'd be much more worried if Pierce's defensive concepts have left him, but his team defense is still there. Washington can live with getting long man defense from Rice and Porter.


Exactly. Our bench and front court match ups is what made WAS vs TOR a back match up for the Wizards last year. Adding Miller, Gooden, Humphries, Paul, Otto, Glen, Blair and Kevin losing 20 lbs changes that. The Wizards are now a deep them. Something they weren't last year.

Booker was a terrible defender.

Wall vs Lowry
Beal vs Ross
PP/Otto/Webster vs DeRozan/Johnson/Landry Fields
Nene/Hump/Gooden/Blair vs Amir/Patterson/Hansbrough
Gortat vs Valanciunas

Vasquez vs Glen Rice

Bring it on.

Humphries vs Hansbrough will be fun to watch
Blair vs Chuck Hayes also
Webster vs Louis Williams

I expect these games to be entertaining and very competitive, but Wizards have the edge in experience.

TOR has the edge in back court depth
WAS has the edge in front court depth
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Re: Predicting the Eastern Conference Standings 2014/2015 Se 

Post#255 » by stevemcqueen1 » Sun Oct 5, 2014 7:04 pm

Dat2U wrote:If DeRozan is the best SG in the conference, then yikes! I'd still give it to Wade, injury concerns and all, there are just too many flaws with DeRozan to list him as the best. Frankly, I like Waiters game more than I do DeRozan's.

I'd put Joe Johnson as a close second behind Wade.

Beal if he takes a leap could be in the discussion but that would probably be more of statement on the lack of elite SGs in the league than Beal becoming a legit star.


You're underrating DeRozan. He's a creative inside-out scorer that can carry the load for a team and he can do it playing big minutes every night without missing any time. Wade can't. And let's not act like Wade and Joe Johnson aren't flawed players at this point either.

DeRozan is a better slasher and inside finisher than Wade is at this point, and that was Wade's bread and butter. He got to the line twice as much and was a stronger finisher inside. If Wade didn't have that over DeRozan last season, then what did he have? And TBH, we really don't know if Wade can even be a first option any more. He hasn't been that type of producer since 2011 and he looked pretty bad by the end of last season. I don't think Wade can carry the load that DeRozan can any more.

DeRozan is better than Johnson too. Johnson is an even bigger bad shot taker than DeRozan and he doesn't have anywhere near the athleticism DeRozan does. Johnson is a pretty ordinary player now.

DeRozan's flaws are his three ball and his defense. He's a marked step down from the quality of the best at the position in the past. But his flaws are less than the flaws of any other SG in the East right now. The position is ho-hum league-wide, particularly so in the East. DeRozan and Beal are probably going to be the only two reliable creative volume scorers in the East this season.
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Re: Predicting the Eastern Conference Standings 2014/2015 Se 

Post#256 » by Indomitable » Mon Oct 6, 2014 1:45 pm

stevemcqueen1 wrote:
Dat2U wrote:If DeRozan is the best SG in the conference, then yikes! I'd still give it to Wade, injury concerns and all, there are just too many flaws with DeRozan to list him as the best. Frankly, I like Waiters game more than I do DeRozan's.

I'd put Joe Johnson as a close second behind Wade.

Beal if he takes a leap could be in the discussion but that would probably be more of statement on the lack of elite SGs in the league than Beal becoming a legit star.


You're underrating DeRozan. He's a creative inside-out scorer that can carry the load for a team and he can do it playing big minutes every night without missing any time. Wade can't. And let's not act like Wade and Joe Johnson aren't flawed players at this point either.

DeRozan is a better slasher and inside finisher than Wade is at this point, and that was Wade's bread and butter. He got to the line twice as much and was a stronger finisher inside. If Wade didn't have that over DeRozan last season, then what did he have? And TBH, we really don't know if Wade can even be a first option any more. He hasn't been that type of producer since 2011 and he looked pretty bad by the end of last season. I don't think Wade can carry the load that DeRozan can any more.

DeRozan is better than Johnson too. Johnson is an even bigger bad shot taker than DeRozan and he doesn't have anywhere near the athleticism DeRozan does. Johnson is a pretty ordinary player now.

DeRozan's flaws are his three ball and his defense. He's a marked step down from the quality of the best at the position in the past. But his flaws are less than the flaws of any other SG in the East right now. The position is ho-hum league-wide, particularly so in the East. DeRozan and Beal are probably going to be the only two reliable creative volume scorers in the East this season.

Johnson destroyed Derozan in the playoffs. He single handily beat the Raptors.
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Re: Predicting the Eastern Conference Standings 2014/2015 Se 

Post#257 » by stevemcqueen1 » Wed Oct 8, 2014 1:26 pm

Indomitable wrote:Johnson destroyed Derozan in the playoffs. He single handily beat the Raptors.


Johnson had a good postseason, but 12 games doesn't outweigh DeRozan being a lot better in the previous 82. And DeRozan had a good series too.
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Re: Predicting the Eastern Conference Standings 2014/2015 Se 

Post#258 » by Indomitable » Wed Oct 8, 2014 2:52 pm

stevemcqueen1 wrote:
Indomitable wrote:Johnson destroyed Derozan in the playoffs. He single handily beat the Raptors.


Johnson had a good postseason, but 12 games doesn't outweigh DeRozan being a lot better in the previous 82. And DeRozan had a good series too.

Actually it does. Who sent whom home.
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Re: Predicting the Eastern Conference Standings 2014/2015 Se 

Post#259 » by Nivek » Wed Oct 8, 2014 3:55 pm

Also, Derozan wasn't head and shoulders better than Johnson in the regular season. Johnson shot a lot better from 2pt and 3pt range and committed fewer turnovers. Derozan made up ground by getting to the FT line more often (and making the FTs) and doing a better job on the glass, assisting and defending (though it's not like he's a lock-down defender). In my analysis, their overall impact was pretty similar.
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Re: Predicting the Eastern Conference Standings 2014/2015 Se 

Post#260 » by Dat2U » Wed Oct 8, 2014 4:06 pm

DeRozan is the better high volume scorer. More productive. More aggressive. Johnson is the better play-maker and big-time shot maker. Johnson plays a more cerebral game, makes smarter decisions with the ball, teammates seem to benefit more from his presence. Johnson is definitely the guy you want in the 4th quarter or the playoffs if you had to choose b/w the two, even despite Demar's productivity. DeRozan is still really learning how to win only after growing into a credible starter on a playoff team last season.

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