GT#6: Wizards @ Raptors 7:30 PM (CSN, 99.1 FM) 11/7/14

[fishercob]

I think the Raps win this one by 12-15. I just don't think the Wizards are ready for them, particularly without Beal.

Saw this one coming and it was even worse than I expected.

The Raps were second in the league in offensive efficiency coming into the game. Not only are the really good, but they are nearly the exact same team as least year -- same rotation except for upgrading from John Salmons to Lou Williams. By contrast, 6 of the 10 Wizards players who played in the 3OT win at TOR last year didn't suit up last night. Just a huge continuity advantage early in the season.

Nene also continues to be eaten up their length. The Wiz only did well twice against TOR last year: once in the 3OT win when Nene was out, and once when Don Newman went small with Ariza at the 4 after Witt got tossed last year (we were down huge that game, but clawed back to make it semi-respectable).

This game serves as an excellent and needed early-season wakeup call. The Wizards have a long, long way to go to be really good.

Onward.

[hands11]

I think the Raps win this one by 12-15. I just don't think the Wizards are ready for them, particularly without Beal.

Saw this one coming and it was even worse than I expected.

The Raps were second in the league in offensive efficiency coming into the game. Not only are the really good, but they are nearly the exact same team as least year -- same rotation except for upgrading from John Salmons to Lou Williams. By contrast, 6 of the 10 Wizards players who played in the 3OT win at TOR last year didn't suit up last night. Just a huge continuity advantage early in the season.

Nene also continues to be eaten up their length. The Wiz only did well twice against TOR last year: once in the 3OT win when Nene was out, and once when Don Newman went small with Ariza at the 4 after Witt got tossed last year (we were down huge that game, but clawed back to make it semi-respectable).

This game serves as an excellent and needed early-season wakeup call. The Wizards have a long, long way to go to be really good.

Onward.

You hit several of the high points. Good analysis...

Let me add my take along the same lines...

Wall 2x air balls to start lead to him chocking regarding his offense. He still passed well though.
Randy with NO TIME OUT until they were down 19-6 at at 5 minute mark. Inexcusable. Specially on the road.
Randy not understanding earlier that Nene and Gortat were not athletic enough. Specially with Paul.

Add it was just an off shooting night by Temple who has been red hot until that game.

Easy fixes that would have changed the game.

1) Call a F ing Time Out down 2-10 at 7:58 at T Ross hit the 3 ball not 4 min later down 6-19
2) Get Humphries and/or Otto in the game earlier

Just those two/three moves alone very likely would have changed things and made it a closer game.

TOR looked about what I thought they would. They played well but not all world. It was the Wizards playing terrible that made that game what it was... a blowout.

We know going into the year that the start of the year would be a step back while they adjusted to losing Trevor A. They weren't going to start at the level they finished last year with TA and Beal not there. Beal getting injured just made that worse.

Nothing to panic over. Long term plan is still the right one. Otto will likely be starting before long. Beal will return. Hell, Humphries might even become a starter. They are still a deep team and still have cap space in 2016. They will still make the playoff and have a nice balance of vets and young talent to make some noise.

Its a long season. Everyone expected TOR to get off to a quicker start. Its just one lose regardless of how it looked. Might even end up better that is was a beat down. Now maybe Randy will adjust sooner and get Otto or Humphries into the starting line up or just sooner when they play more athletic younger teams. They had the same problem last year. It just wasn't as much an issue in the playoff because there is more half court and slower pace them.

Even before that game the Wizards were playing at only about 60% of as good as they will be and that was a 50% version on that 60%. Meanwhile, what we saw from TOR is probably 85% of as good as they will be and they played 100% of that level.

It was a disgusting smack down as a result of cascading failure of injuries and crappy coaching.

[cammac]

I think the Raps win this one by 12-15. I just don't think the Wizards are ready for them, particularly without Beal.

Saw this one coming and it was even worse than I expected.

The Raps were second in the league in offensive efficiency coming into the game. Not only are the really good, but they are nearly the exact same team as least year -- same rotation except for upgrading from John Salmons to Lou Williams. By contrast, 6 of the 10 Wizards players who played in the 3OT win at TOR last year didn't suit up last night. Just a huge continuity advantage early in the season.

Nene also continues to be eaten up their length. The Wiz only did well twice against TOR last year: once in the 3OT win when Nene was out, and once when Don Newman went small with Ariza at the 4 after Witt got tossed last year (we were down huge that game, but clawed back to make it semi-respectable).

This game serves as an excellent and needed early-season wakeup call. The Wizards have a long, long way to go to be really good.

Onward.

You hit several of the high points. Good analysis...

Let me add my take along the same lines...

Wall 2x air balls to start lead to him chocking regarding his offense. He still passed well though.
Randy with NO TIME OUT until they were down 19-6 at at 5 minute mark. Inexcusable. Specially on the road.
Randy not understanding earlier that Nene and Gortat were not athletic enough. Specially with Paul.

And then just and off shooting night by Temple who has been red hot until that game.

Easy fixes that would have changed the game.

1) Call a F ing Time Out down 2-10 at 7:58 at T Ross hit the 3 ball not 4 min later down 6-19
2) Get Humphries and/or Otto in the game earlier

Just those two/three moves alone very likely would have changed things and made it a closer game.

TOR looked about what I thought they would. They played well but not all world. It was the Wizards playing terrible that made that game what it was... a blowout.

We know going into the year that the start of the year would be a step back while they adjusted to losing Trevor A. They weren't going to start at the level they finished last year with TA and Beal not there. Beal getting injured just made that worse.

Nothing to panic over. Long term plan is still the right one. Otto will likely be starting before long. Beal will return. Hell, Humphries might even become a starter. They are still a deep team and still have cap space in 2016. They will still make the playoff and have a nice balance of vets and young talent to make some noise.

Its a long season. Everyone expected TOR to get off to a quicker start. Its just one lose regardless of how it looked. Might even end up better that is was a beat down. Now maybe Randy will adjust sooner and get Otto or Humphries into the starting line up or just sooner when they play more athletic younger teams. They had the same problem last year. It just wasn't as much an issue in the playoff because there is more half court and slower pace them.

Even before that game the Wizards were playing at only about 60% of as good as they will be and that was a 50% version on that 60%. Meanwhile, what we saw from TOR is probably 85% of as good as they will be and they played 100% of that level.

It was a disgusting smack down as a result of cascading failure of injuries and crappy coaching.

Toronto wasn't playing well the one loss we had was inexcusable to Miami we are a very good free throw team and were terrible. Both Washington have at best middle of the road head coaches who have zero concept of calling time outs and setting up the offense.

Jonas is getting much better defensively and has a good offense game he needs 32 minutes a game to put up 16PPG 12RPG 1.5 BPG he is at least on Gortat's level if not above and he can definitely improve defensively. Amir is a great role player but is getting increasingly brittle needs his minutes cut but Raptors have depth with Patterson, Hansbrough & James Johnson.

Ross has sucked this year but this game seemed to get the fire back and start becoming the 3D player he is and James Johnson brought in to handle the Pierces and Joe Johnsons of the NBA.

Back court Lowry & DeMar still the best in the East but Wall & Beal are very good as well. Andre Miller played well today he is like the old guy in a pick-up league of young guys but gets the job done. Vasquez & Williams both contribute on the 2nd team. Hopefully Webster comes back strong.

Both teams can be beasts in the East still see Toronto 2nd & Washington 3rd. and Chicago 4th or 5th.

Cheering for you against the Pacers looking forward to a tough battle next time we meet.

[hands11]

As time goes on, the top of the East is going to get tough. CLE is going to be good. So is CHI ( but * if Rose doesn't get right )

I agree with most of what you wrote expect not sure of the top ranking falling like you have it.

I do see TOR and WIZ have similarities with the Wizards going with more a vet support route which I believe will pay off as a season advances. Biggest thing is right now, TOR is about 3-4 weeks ahead of the Wizards regarding team meshing/development, and because of injuries, depth.

Wall and Beal vs Lowry and DRoz Interesting comparison. Again, TOR further developed but its yet to be seen who will be better when both sets are in their prime. Low 28/DRoz 25 vs Wall 24/Beal 21

Your two are in the heart of their prime, with D Roz just entering his and Lowry well into it.

Lowry will be 29 in March next year.
DRoz just turned 25 in August

Neither of ours is even at that age yet.

Wall turn 24 Sept 6th
Beal turn 21 June 28th

Both Wall and Beal should be significant strides this year. I don't see that kind of upside untapped in your two. Add in team blending of Humphries and Otto largely untapped still along with our vet support and I have the Wizards by mid season being better then TOR and going deeper in the playoffs.

[cammac]

Yes Wall and Beal are younger but right now there is a substantial disparity between them that's not to say Wall and Beal can't be the second best duo in the East.
Toronto has youth as well both our rookies are raw but both have good ceilings and will learn from practicing Bruno isn't as athletic as the Greek Freak but a better shooter and Bebe can become a more than adequate back-up C.
Yes Pierce is a cagy veteran but is much more a PF at this stage of his career but believe Nene is on the downside of his career and Gortat has leveled out.
Think it will be a strong possibility both teams meet in the second round.
One distinct advantage Toronto has is our GM he looks for steals in the draft and knows how to get maximum value in trades.
Plus think the only 3 teams in the running for Durant is OKC, Washington & Toronto. He will go to the team with the best chance of winning.

[Matty]

Both Wall and Beal should be significant strides this year. I don't see that kind of upside untapped in your two. Add in team blending of Humphries and Otto largely untapped still along with our vet support and I have the Wizards by mid season being better then TOR and going deeper in the playoffs.

Not happening. 2 main reasons and it has nothing do with the comparisons of both teams.

For one, you're in the Southeast division paired with Miami, Charlotte, and Atlanta. All of these teams are good enough to challenge for the division which means 16 games that will be tough to play, heck even Orlando will cause a fit here and there. Meanwhile we're in the Atlantic division, where at best we'll see Brooklyn try to compete with us but that's about it. New York will be playing for 8th spot, Boston has a promising team but they won't make the playoffs, and Philly is a mess.

Another thing you guys will have to do to surpass us is have a winning record vs West. I think you guys went 11-19 vs western opps while we had 16 wins last season.

That's 16 divisional games + 30 WC games = 46 games where you need to make your mark to be higher than us in the standings. For the rest of the games we've had pretty similar records. So you guys might go deeper than us in the playoffs but that all hinges on where you stand at the end of the season. And right now that's strongly in our favor based on last night's showing.

By the way, that's already the 2nd time this season you guys lost by double digits. This early in the year, that's not a good sign of a consistent team.

[Detective]

GG, Wiz fans.

I know this game was not in any way an indication of your overall talent level, cohesion or potential as a team. TOR are the Snape to your Dumbeldore's, that's all. Wizard killers essentially.

I just wanted to say best of luck to you this upcoming season, and we look forward to our next tilt against you, hopefully with Beal back, and hopefully a electrifying match from both sides.

As is the new Raptors board tradition carried by myself and a few others this year, I have gone and basically And1'd your entire thread. It's a small way of showing respect to the opposition board, regardless of win or loss. My other Raps board family were class tonight with their well wishes and positive comments. We essentially want to show a united front, and make sure that 1-2 trolls in a sea of 999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 fans don't tarnish our rep as the largest fanbase in the NBA and online. BTW, I think your Mods are world class, as well. Great sportsmanship between both our fanbases.

Peace Out, bros.



P.S: Yer a Wizard now, Harry. I always wanted to randomly say/type that.

[pineappleheadindc]

GG, Wiz fans.

I know this game was not in any way an indication of your overall talent level, cohesion or potential as a team. TOR are the Snape to your Dumbeldore's, that's all. Wizard killers essentially.

I just wanted to say best of luck to you this upcoming season, and we look forward to our next tilt against you, hopefully with Beal back, and hopefully a electrifying match from both sides.

As is the new Raptors board tradition carried by myself and a few others this year, I have gone and basically And1'd your entire thread. It's a small way of showing respect to the opposition board, regardless of win or loss. My other Raps board family were class tonight with their well wishes and positive comments. We essentially want to show a united front, and make sure that 1-2 trolls in a sea of 999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 fans don't tarnish our rep as the largest fanbase in the NBA and online. BTW, I think your Mods are world class, as well. Great sportsmanship between both our fanbases.

Peace Out, bros.



P.S: Yer a Wizard now, Harry. I always wanted to randomly say/type that.

What a great post. And what a creative and interesting idea - to show respect re: AND1 the entire thread. I may be copying that and doing that, FYI, for the future.

Drop by anytime, not just when our teams are playing against each other.

[Detective]

GG, Wiz fans.

I know this game was not in any way an indication of your overall talent level, cohesion or potential as a team. TOR are the Snape to your Dumbeldore's, that's all. Wizard killers essentially.

I just wanted to say best of luck to you this upcoming season, and we look forward to our next tilt against you, hopefully with Beal back, and hopefully a electrifying match from both sides.

As is the new Raptors board tradition carried by myself and a few others this year, I have gone and basically And1'd your entire thread. It's a small way of showing respect to the opposition board, regardless of win or loss. My other Raps board family were class tonight with their well wishes and positive comments. We essentially want to show a united front, and make sure that 1-2 trolls in a sea of 999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 fans don't tarnish our rep as the largest fanbase in the NBA and online. BTW, I think your Mods are world class, as well. Great sportsmanship between both our fanbases.

Peace Out, bros.



P.S: Yer a Wizard now, Harry. I always wanted to randomly say/type that.

What a great post. And what a creative and interesting idea - to show respect re: AND1 the entire thread. I may be copying that and doing that, FYI, for the future.

Drop by anytime, not just when our teams are playing against each other.

Thanks for the invite, brother. I will be sure to take up on it. I usually cross post on other team boards as well. i.e. I'm like the only user to have a free pass on the Knicks board by their Mods, to make threads about their team and other subjects in general, without any issues. It's all about that basketball loving brotherhood

And feel free to take the And1 idea and run with it. We're getting a sh*tload of positive comments from other team boards from it, and committed followings outside their own team loyalty, due to it.

Here is the thread I made to start the season long campaign,

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=1352621

Maybe the Wiz fan family would be interested in doing the same? I think it will give positive karma to your side, as well.

[FAH1223]

Toronto is one of those teams you have to dictate the matchups.

Playing Pierce as the a stretch PF and starting Otto would be the adjustment I'd make.

Bring Nene off the bench and have him and Professor Miller do the playmaking.

It is interesting how similar the stats were at the end of the game. The big discrepancy was 3 point shooting. Wiz finally are regressing to the mean.

That 1st half was just horrible for the Wiz. Hopefully they can put together 48 minutes vs. TOR next time. Raptors definitely have our number.

[hands11]

Both Wall and Beal should be significant strides this year. I don't see that kind of upside untapped in your two. Add in team blending of Humphries and Otto largely untapped still along with our vet support and I have the Wizards by mid season being better then TOR and going deeper in the playoffs.

Not happening. 2 main reasons and it has nothing do with the comparisons of both teams.

For one, you're in the Southeast division paired with Miami, Charlotte, and Atlanta. All of these teams are good enough to challenge for the division which means 16 games that will be tough to play, heck even Orlando will cause a fit here and there. Meanwhile we're in the Atlantic division, where at best we'll see Brooklyn try to compete with us but that's about it. New York will be playing for 8th spot, Boston has a promising team but they won't make the playoffs, and Philly is a mess.

Another thing you guys will have to do to surpass us is have a winning record vs West. I think you guys went 11-19 vs western opps while we had 16 wins last season.

That's 16 divisional games + 30 WC games = 46 games where you need to make your mark to be higher than us in the standings. For the rest of the games we've had pretty similar records. So you guys might go deeper than us in the playoffs but that all hinges on where you stand at the end of the season. And right now that's strongly in our favor based on last night's showing.

By the way, that's already the 2nd time this season you guys lost by double digits. This early in the year, that's not a good sign of a consistent team.

I said better team and deeper in the playoffs. I still believe that will likely be true by mid season.

[hands11]

GG, Wiz fans.

I know this game was not in any way an indication of your overall talent level, cohesion or potential as a team. TOR are the Snape to your Dumbeldore's, that's all. Wizard killers essentially.

I just wanted to say best of luck to you this upcoming season, and we look forward to our next tilt against you, hopefully with Beal back, and hopefully a electrifying match from both sides.

As is the new Raptors board tradition carried by myself and a few others this year, I have gone and basically And1'd your entire thread. It's a small way of showing respect to the opposition board, regardless of win or loss. My other Raps board family were class tonight with their well wishes and positive comments. We essentially want to show a united front, and make sure that 1-2 trolls in a sea of 999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 fans don't tarnish our rep as the largest fanbase in the NBA and online. BTW, I think your Mods are world class, as well. Great sportsmanship between both our fanbases.

Peace Out, bros.



P.S: Yer a Wizard now, Harry. I always wanted to randomly say/type that.

Thanks for the post D.

[Matty]

Both Wall and Beal should be significant strides this year. I don't see that kind of upside untapped in your two. Add in team blending of Humphries and Otto largely untapped still along with our vet support and I have the Wizards by mid season being better then TOR and going deeper in the playoffs.

Not happening. 2 main reasons and it has nothing do with the comparisons of both teams.

For one, you're in the Southeast division paired with Miami, Charlotte, and Atlanta. All of these teams are good enough to challenge for the division which means 16 games that will be tough to play, heck even Orlando will cause a fit here and there. Meanwhile we're in the Atlantic division, where at best we'll see Brooklyn try to compete with us but that's about it. New York will be playing for 8th spot, Boston has a promising team but they won't make the playoffs, and Philly is a mess.

Another thing you guys will have to do to surpass us is have a winning record vs West. I think you guys went 11-19 vs western opps while we had 16 wins last season.

That's 16 divisional games + 30 WC games = 46 games where you need to make your mark to be higher than us in the standings. For the rest of the games we've had pretty similar records. So you guys might go deeper than us in the playoffs but that all hinges on where you stand at the end of the season. And right now that's strongly in our favor based on last night's showing.

By the way, that's already the 2nd time this season you guys lost by double digits. This early in the year, that's not a good sign of a consistent team.

I said better team and deeper in the playoffs. I still believe that will likely be true by mid season.

better team based on what?

[BruceO]

Both Wall and Beal should be significant strides this year. I don't see that kind of upside untapped in your two. Add in team blending of Humphries and Otto largely untapped still along with our vet support and I have the Wizards by mid season being better then TOR and going deeper in the playoffs.

Not happening. 2 main reasons and it has nothing do with the comparisons of both teams.

For one, you're in the Southeast division paired with Miami, Charlotte, and Atlanta. All of these teams are good enough to challenge for the division which means 16 games that will be tough to play, heck even Orlando will cause a fit here and there. Meanwhile we're in the Atlantic division, where at best we'll see Brooklyn try to compete with us but that's about it. New York will be playing for 8th spot, Boston has a promising team but they won't make the playoffs, and Philly is a mess.

Another thing you guys will have to do to surpass us is have a winning record vs West. I think you guys went 11-19 vs western opps while we had 16 wins last season.

That's 16 divisional games + 30 WC games = 46 games where you need to make your mark to be higher than us in the standings. For the rest of the games we've had pretty similar records. So you guys might go deeper than us in the playoffs but that all hinges on where you stand at the end of the season. And right now that's strongly in our favor based on last night's showing.

By the way, that's already the 2nd time this season you guys lost by double digits. This early in the year, that's not a good sign of a consistent team.

I wouldn't count the miami game even if they have have a 4-2 team. wizards played without beal, martell Webster, Glen rice, nene, humphries, blair.

I expected Toronto to win and I'm a fan of your fans and team plus my sisters went to school in Toronto. I wish they fought more but that was also the third game in four nights. and indiana game was fourth game in five nights. that schedule was crazy. It was against teams we were meant to beat other than Toronto and 3-1 on that stretch wasn't bad. I don't think we've beaten any truly good team yet so I'm still concerned. I looked at Toronto schedule for the month. I think you'll be first in the east the entire month. good spacing of schedule plus teams you should beat. Hope next time match up will be more conclusive

[hands11]

Yes Wall and Beal are younger but right now there is a substantial disparity between them that's not to say Wall and Beal can't be the second best duo in the East.
Toronto has youth as well both our rookies are raw but both have good ceilings and will learn from practicing Bruno isn't as athletic as the Greek Freak but a better shooter and Bebe can become a more than adequate back-up C.
Yes Pierce is a cagy veteran but is much more a PF at this stage of his career but believe Nene is on the downside of his career and Gortat has leveled out.
Think it will be a strong possibility both teams meet in the second round.
One distinct advantage Toronto has is our GM he looks for steals in the draft and knows how to get maximum value in trades.
Plus think the only 3 teams in the running for Durant is OKC, Washington & Toronto. He will go to the team with the best chance of winning.

Again, neither Wall or Beal are even in their prime yet and 2) you haven't even seen Wall and Beal yet this year to draw any comparison.

Lets talk again in say January after Beal has returned and has been playing for a month. Might not even need to wait that long. Maybe mid to late December. But certainly by the next time the two teams meet Jan 31st in DC.

Expect a very different Wizards team when you come. Barring any injuries to both teams, Wizards should be shinning by then and with an axe to grind.