Kelly Oubre

[tontoz]

just want to say I called the Stacy Augmon comparison first.

I win!

I was living in Atlanta when Augmon was there. He had the worst jumper i have ever seen from a starting guard in the NBA. He made 12 3s in his entire career.

Fine. I'm glad that he's not the complete copy of SA. All that said, it was different at that time. Most players
didn't take or probably practice 3 pt shooting like they do now.

I remember what it was like. I watched all their games. Augmons jumper was terrible from everywhere. It was MKG ugly.

[tontoz]

just want to say I called the Stacy Augmon comparison first.

I win!

I was living in Atlanta when Augmon was there. He had the worst jumper i have ever seen from a starting guard in the NBA. He made 12 3s in his entire career.

Fine. I'm glad that he's not the complete copy of SA. All that said, it was different at that time. Most players
didn't take or probably practice 3 pt shooting like they do now.

I remember what it was like. I watched all their games. Augmons jumper was terrible from everywhere. It was MKG ugly.

He was pretty crafty finishing inside though. Kelly, not so much. Not a very good comparison really.

[dangermouse]

When youre a wizard fan, you learn pretty fast not to get too excited about players.

Next Paul George? I wish man. I wish.

[NatP4]

When youre a wizard fan, you learn pretty fast not to get too excited about players.

Next Paul George? I wish man. I wish.

I'm not saying he'll get there, but an Ariza like player, but a more explosive athlete with a better ball handling foundation and an attacking mentality. Isn't that his ceiling?

[Illmatic12]

Ariza is a good comparison, other than one glaring fact: TA cannot dribble the ball. Even as a 10yr vet, his attempts to dribble are like a baby deer taking its first steps

Kelly's handles aren't reliable enough YET to be used as a ballhandler in the half court, but I remember noting his ability to shoot off the dribble and operate around ball screens when we first saw him in SL

Watch on YouTube

Imagine if Ariza had been capable of being a secondary/tertiary ballhandler in the PnR, and could create his own threes off the dribble as well as being accurate in catch&shoot situations. To me, that player would be a near All-Star caliber wing and I think that's Oubre's theoretical ceiling

Oubre was a top 6 recruit and originally thought to be a top 5 pick that dropped. I don't see why people don't think he could be the next Paul George. What you just described is pretty much just that.

Well I'm not gonna go there, because most people would have George as a top 10-15 player and I don't think that will be in the cards for KO.

However, Paul George may not actually be that good and maybe he'll never reach the next level we're expecting. If PG kinda stagnates around the level he's at now, then other guys will pass him and he'll drop to the top ~20-30ish range in a few years, which I think Oubre could possibly approach in his best case scenario.

[tontoz]

When youre a wizard fan, you learn pretty fast not to get too excited about players.

Next Paul George? I wish man. I wish.

I'm not saying he'll get there, but an Ariza like player, but a more explosive athlete with a better ball handling foundation and an attacking mentality. Isn't that his ceiling?

Ariza is the best comparison I can think of but KO has a quicker release on his J and better handles. He might not end up being as good defensively as Ariza though.

[Dat2U]

Ariza is a good comparison, other than one glaring fact: TA cannot dribble the ball. Even as a 10yr vet, his attempts to dribble are like a baby deer taking its first steps

Kelly's handles aren't reliable enough YET to be used as a ballhandler in the half court, but I remember noting his ability to shoot off the dribble and operate around ball screens when we first saw him in SL

Watch on YouTube

Imagine if Ariza had been capable of being a secondary/tertiary ballhandler in the PnR, and could create his own threes off the dribble as well as being accurate in catch&shoot situations. To me, that player would be a near All-Star caliber wing and I think that's Oubre's theoretical ceiling

I was at that game.

His handles have a long way to go to be a primary scoring option. He's a right hand dominant straight line dribbler. No left hand. No change of direction moves. No advanced moves. It's rare although possible for a player to develop his handle much further from when he enters in the league. Vince, DeRozan, Jimmy Butler are a few I can think of.

[stevemcqueen1]

You meant left hand dominant.

One thing going in Oubre's favor is that he's got nice shooting touch. He gets a lot of those shooters rolls on his little jumpers in the lane. The ball comes out soft even when he's going hard to the basket. He can stop and start well for a forward and I think it suggests he's got good potential on his momentum shots like runners and dribble pull ups.

He also does a solid job finishing through contact. He absorbs it well and he's got a surprising amount of strength on him for such a slender player. I don't think he'll get up to 230 and be a tank like Jimmy Butler, but I could see him ending up pretty strong. You don't necessarily need advanced handles when you can use power to get the positioning you want.

[long suffrin' boulez fan]

You meant left hand dominant.

One thing going in Oubre's favor is that he's got nice shooting touch. He gets a lot of those shooters rolls on his little jumpers in the lane. The ball comes out soft even when he's going hard to the basket. He can stop and start well for a forward and I think it suggests he's got good potential on his momentum shots like runners and dribble pull ups.

He also does a solid job finishing through contact. He absorbs it well and he's got a surprising amount of strength on him for such a slender player. I don't think he'll get up to 230 and be a tank like Jimmy Butler, but I could see him ending up pretty strong. You don't necessarily need advanced handles when you can use power to get the positioning you want.

Early in the season he couldn't even get a shot up through contact. He's showing signs recently of adding attacking the rim to his game however.

I have to say, I'm liking what I'm seeing. Interesting interview on CSN though yesterday. He said he never really watched basketball, though he always loved playing it.

Kind of explains where some of the holes in his game are. Fundamental help defense, movement off the ball, boxing out, anticipating cuts for assists, etc.

The hope is that he develops something closer to a full floor game. If so, given his althleticism, frame, motor, soft hands and shooting touch, watch out.

I can't wait to see him in year four or so - assuming he's not first part of an Ernie panic trade.

[Illmatic12]

Ariza is a good comparison, other than one glaring fact: TA cannot dribble the ball. Even as a 10yr vet, his attempts to dribble are like a baby deer taking its first steps

Kelly's handles aren't reliable enough YET to be used as a ballhandler in the half court, but I remember noting his ability to shoot off the dribble and operate around ball screens when we first saw him in SL

Watch on YouTube

Imagine if Ariza had been capable of being a secondary/tertiary ballhandler in the PnR, and could create his own threes off the dribble as well as being accurate in catch&shoot situations. To me, that player would be a near All-Star caliber wing and I think that's Oubre's theoretical ceiling

I was at that game.

His handles have a long way to go to be a primary scoring option. He's a right hand dominant straight line dribbler. No left hand. No change of direction moves. No advanced moves. It's rare although possible for a player to develop his handle much further from when he enters in the league. Vince, DeRozan, Jimmy Butler are a few I can think of.

Left hand dominant lol.

And I've seen plenty of players develop their handle while being in the league.. for example, one Bradley Beal (who has the same trainer as Oubre fwiw)

[TGW]

The game is slowing down a bit for him. Good to see.

[nate33]

Over the last 9 games, Oubre has averaged:
24.7 minutes
9.7 points
5.8 rebounds
1.0 assists
1.3 steals
0.8 turnovers

Per 36, that's:
14.5 points
8.5 rebounds
1.5 assists
1.9 steals
1.2 turnovers
.634 TS%
122 ORtg
15.1 USG%

He's basically putting up the same numbers as Otto Porter on a per minute basis, which is a really good thing at his age.

[tontoz]

He looked really bad last year and early this year. Very surprising to see such a fast turnaround.

Also encouraging how composed he is all the time. I never see him complaining or whining about anything. He just plays.

[AFM]

He a beast doe...

He even have dat super saiyan hair, thats when you know he gonna light yo ass up

[stevemcqueen1]

He's been locked in the past few weeks. Always focused and reading the floor and playing with terrific energy. I think he played almost the entire first half last night and it didn't slow him down at all. He was just all over the place. Even doing little things like running to help up teammates who've fallen and sprinting back to the bench during timeouts. I love his mentality when he's guarding the ball. Always prodding and looking for a careless mistake he can exploit for a steal and a runaway dunk. It's like he's getting one of those every game now.

BTW, has anyone else noticed how much better the team is about helping each other up when they fall this season? I think it's been a point of emphasis in the locker room. Under Wittman our guys were always slow or reluctant to help each other up. Now it's immediate. That's a really good habit to develop because I think it's one of those tells for if the team is engaged in the moment. It's also good for building chemistry because it's forcing them to look out for each other.

Minor though it is, it's one of the few positives I've taken away from this otherwise horrible start to the season.

[NatP4]

ALWAYS draft for upside at that 10-15 range, Giannis, Kawhi, PG all had the physical measurables. Winslow and Johnson were such awful picks, those guys will never be able to create their own shots, never had any offensive upside.

There's always that one hig upside wing that just needs to focus more that ends up being a complete steal.

[payitforward]

Moved from trade thread. Better to discuss here:

...Both Kawhi and PG were players that scouts said couldn't handle the ball at all and could only straight line drive. People also said Paul George had low bbiq and would get lost on defense and lose his focus. I personally don't see the Kawhi comparison, but the PG one is close to me.

I did absolutely watch PG at Fresno, I was one of the people that said he was a future superstar even at that time(also said this about Jeff green lol)

The things that Oubre lacks, he will improve on through playing time, court vision, driving lanes to the basket. He's improved massively on defense, he doesn't get lost anymore at all.

But if you say he has a ceiling as high as Paul George but isn't a Paul George type player, I understand that. He's clearly more athletic than ariza, has a better ball handling foundation as well, has massive off the dribble upside, what is that player comparison then?

Not sure what the comparison is, but it sure isn't Paul George, who was a silky smooth player coming out of college.

Biggest thing to remember about Oubre is that he played a total of 700+ minutes of college ball! IOW, his experience in high-level organized basketball was really tiny on draft day. For that reason alone, it's hard to know who to compare him to -- it's hard to know who he's going to be!

Oubre has developed really well in a bunch of ways; especially his bbiq, control on court, etc. & those were legit. questions given the above. What he hasn't developed is any right hand at all. If he had an off hand, he'd really be a load to defend.

I did say he has a higher ceiling than Paul George -- but... I don't think PG is a superstar by any means. He's very good, but there a bunch of 3s who are better -- some way way better (including Otto Porter, btw).

How high is Oubre's ceiling? I.e. can he be a star or superstar? Who the Hell knows? So far there's a lot to be happy about, & that's good enough.

[dangermouse]

Better than Ariza already? He's making less and less Low BBIQ plays.

He still plays in those passing lanes, but he must be getting the green light from coaches there. He overplays sometimes but he gets just as many steals as he does defensive errors. Thats how it seems anyway.

[doclinkin]

Better than Ariza already? He's making less and less Low BBIQ plays.

He still plays in those passing lanes, but he must be getting the green light from coaches there. He overplays sometimes but he gets just as many steals as he does defensive errors. Thats how it seems anyway.

Seems like most of the steals he gets are from on-the-ball defense, more than ballwatching and jumping the lane. That's the right way to do it, stifle dribble drives and harass the ballhandler into a mistake instead. I like his attitude, humble and hard working even while he has something of a swagger to him. Best of all he's coachable and rewards coaches for their faith, he knows he is earning his minutes from defensive intensity, and has begun to find a role for himself in late game play as a stopper. Plus if yo ulook at his shot chart its basically either 3FG or attacking the basket.

[jangles86]

Do we keep both Otto and Kelly if a decent big comes up in a trade? I don't think so.