Wizards acquire Jared Dudley

[Dat2U]

I liked the Dudley signing initially because he's a fine rotation player. I questioned the desire to play him much (or even starting him) at the 4 considering he's barely 6-5, pretty unathletic & doesn't rebound well for a 3. Knowing the history with these types of injuries and the fact Dudley is only on a one year deal... I'm disappointed (but not surprised - it's Ernie geez) that the Wizards still went ahead with the deal. The likelihood of Dudley being gone to January is pretty high (because he'll need time to work himself into shape after being cleared by the doctors). To expect him to come back, adjust to a new team, roster & system, and play WELL on the fly without a training camp seems dubious at best. As much as liked Dudley, his injury would have precluded me from signing him.

Makes total sense why we signed Anderson now. Ernie knew Dudley wouldn't be a factor early in the year.

We still have a MASSIVE gaping hole at PF if were assuming Nene as our backup C now. Gooden & Hump is a pretty sad duo at PF for a franchise that has hopes of going places this year.

[gtn130]

I liked the Dudley signing initially because he's a fine rotation player. I questioned the desire to play him much (or even starting him) at the 4 considering he's barely 6-5, pretty unathletic & doesn't rebound well for a 3. Knowing the history with these types of injuries and the fact Dudley is only on a one year deal... I'm disappointed (but not surprised - it's Ernie geez) that the Wizards still went ahead with the deal. The likelihood of Dudley being gone to January is pretty high (because he'll need time to work himself into shape after being cleared by the doctors). To expect him to come back, adjust to a new team, roster & system, and play WELL on the fly without a training camp seems dubious at best. As much as liked Dudley, his injury would have precluded me from signing him.

Makes total sense why we signed Anderson now. Ernie knew Dudley wouldn't be a factor early in the year.

We still have a MASSIVE gaping hole at PF if were assuming Nene as our backup C now. Gooden & Hump is a pretty sad duo at PF for a franchise that has hopes of going places this year.

If they play Nene for the first 8 minutes of the game at PF then backup center rest of the way, it won't be so bad. It's basically what they did in the playoffs.

It's strange to me how people think there is a huge gaping hole on the roster without Pierce. He was mediocre for the entire regular season and is too old to play big minutes. He hit a few big shots in the playoffs, and that was it. We don't have a massive need for veteran leadership at this point. Wall and Gortat are veterans with legit playoff experience.

[Kanyewest]

The good news from the bad news is that Oubre could earn a spot in the rotation and could play 10-15 minutes per game which would help his long term development. He would still have to beat out Neal, which is entirely possible if Neal doesn't play as well as he did a few years ago with the Spurs. Porter could also see minutes at the 4 during specific matchup which could open up more wing minutes. For instance, Porter would have less problems when certain teams go small including the Nets with Thaddeus Young or the Pacers with Paul George.

We'll have to wait and see if Dudley can recover or not from the back surgery. Dwight Howard, Mitch McGary, and Jared Sullinger turned out OK. Martell Webster hasn't looked so good far off of this past back surgery- although I believe he played well after his previous back surgery.

The big concern going forward is if the Wizards will have any stretch 4s going forward. Could the TPE have been used for another player remains to be seen. But now it makes much more sense why the Wizards were able to get Dudley for a second round pick that the Bucks will most likely never see.

[Dat2U]

I liked the Dudley signing initially because he's a fine rotation player. I questioned the desire to play him much (or even starting him) at the 4 considering he's barely 6-5, pretty unathletic & doesn't rebound well for a 3. Knowing the history with these types of injuries and the fact Dudley is only on a one year deal... I'm disappointed (but not surprised - it's Ernie geez) that the Wizards still went ahead with the deal. The likelihood of Dudley being gone to January is pretty high (because he'll need time to work himself into shape after being cleared by the doctors). To expect him to come back, adjust to a new team, roster & system, and play WELL on the fly without a training camp seems dubious at best. As much as liked Dudley, his injury would have precluded me from signing him.

Makes total sense why we signed Anderson now. Ernie knew Dudley wouldn't be a factor early in the year.

We still have a MASSIVE gaping hole at PF if were assuming Nene as our backup C now. Gooden & Hump is a pretty sad duo at PF for a franchise that has hopes of going places this year.

If they play Nene for the first 8 minutes of the game at PF then backup center rest of the way, it won't be so bad. It's basically what they did in the playoffs.

It's strange to me how people think there is a huge gaping hole on the roster without Pierce. He was mediocre for the entire regular season and is too old to play big minutes. He hit a few big shots in the playoffs, and that was it. We don't have a massive need for veteran leadership at this point. Wall and Gortat are veterans with legit playoff experience.

Did you also notice we got off to slow starts nearly every game? It won't be so bad? Really? Nene is a backup at this stage of his career. He's not the same guy from 2 years ago or even a year ago. Starting him hinders spacing and makes life tougher offensively for everyone else. Defensively, asking him to check smaller 4s is a recipe for trouble. This is not just about Pierce, it's about having a playable option at PF that won't drain us either offensively or defensively. Gooden & Hump a bit role players who shouldn't be asked to play a big role. Asking Porter to play extended minutes at the 4 seems ridiculous considering how light in the pants he is. We need obvious help upfront and I have trouble figuring out why some people would believe otherwise.

[gtn130]

I liked the Dudley signing initially because he's a fine rotation player. I questioned the desire to play him much (or even starting him) at the 4 considering he's barely 6-5, pretty unathletic & doesn't rebound well for a 3. Knowing the history with these types of injuries and the fact Dudley is only on a one year deal... I'm disappointed (but not surprised - it's Ernie geez) that the Wizards still went ahead with the deal. The likelihood of Dudley being gone to January is pretty high (because he'll need time to work himself into shape after being cleared by the doctors). To expect him to come back, adjust to a new team, roster & system, and play WELL on the fly without a training camp seems dubious at best. As much as liked Dudley, his injury would have precluded me from signing him.

Makes total sense why we signed Anderson now. Ernie knew Dudley wouldn't be a factor early in the year.

We still have a MASSIVE gaping hole at PF if were assuming Nene as our backup C now. Gooden & Hump is a pretty sad duo at PF for a franchise that has hopes of going places this year.

If they play Nene for the first 8 minutes of the game at PF then backup center rest of the way, it won't be so bad. It's basically what they did in the playoffs.

It's strange to me how people think there is a huge gaping hole on the roster without Pierce. He was mediocre for the entire regular season and is too old to play big minutes. He hit a few big shots in the playoffs, and that was it. We don't have a massive need for veteran leadership at this point. Wall and Gortat are veterans with legit playoff experience.

Did you also notice we got off to slow starts nearly every game? It won't be so bad? Really? Nene is a backup at this stage of his career. He's not the same guy from 2 years ago or even a year ago. Starting him hinders spacing and makes life tougher offensively for everyone else. Defensively, asking him to check smaller 4s is a recipe for trouble. This is not just about Pierce, it's about having a playable option at PF that won't drain us either offensively or defensively. Gooden & Hump a bit role players who shouldn't be asked to play a big role. Asking Porter to play extended minutes at the 4 seems ridiculous considering how light in the pants he is. We need obvious help upfront and I have trouble figuring out why some people would believe otherwise.

Yeah, we're significantly worse offensively with Nene, but better defensively. Our small lineups were scoring like 1.2 ppp in the playoffs or something crazy like that, which we can still go to without Dudley. Dudley/Nene aren't the keys to this season or even close.

You act like standing behind the 3pt line and doing some rebounding is a huge role for Gooden and Hump. They can succeed at that for stretches at time vs certain lineups. Hump has been a good rotation player for years now and can play 20+ minutes a night in the NBA. Don't see a huge problem there.

[payitforward]

As far as the regular season goes I see a 45-50 win team. They added shooting and while Pierce is a loss, Otto I think can come in an be a 13/6 type of player who will be a HUGE upgrade defensively. Their biggest chance at improvement is from within, if they can find a perimeter four who can give their guards a chance to make a significant leap. Dudley may be that guy by January but they'd be better off dumping a non fit like Blair and doubling up at the stretch 4 w/Dudley on the shelf.

While I disagree with your prediction for the Wiz this year (I think a 4/5 seed is again their likely landing spot), this isn't a do or die season. Long term, this nucleus has has potential to achieve beyond that.

I think these are kind of mind-blowing positions. We started last year 19-6, because we had an extra all-star level player (Butler). Once he was replaced by the real Rasual Butler, we played the rest of the season 27-30. The final 30 games of the season we went 14-16. We were 7-7 in March. We closed the regular season going 5-3 in April. 3 of those wins were against Philadelphia & NY, arguably the worst two teams in the league and playing w/ nothing at stake.

How are we going to be *better* this year? We lost Pierce, who played @2000 minutes at a high level. Our replacement for him is lucky to contribute 1000 minutes. The Butler dream ended; Neal and Anderson will be hard-pressed to equal his overall season productivity, given the hot start he had.

It'd take an enormous jump from Beal & Porter to get us back to the success we had last year, which was essentially the same level of success we'd had the previous year. Even that seems hard to imagine; there are too many minutes to fill, and the guys we have are mostly too old to increase their minutes and/or not good enough to fill them at last year's level.

[gtn130]

As far as the regular season goes I see a 45-50 win team. They added shooting and while Pierce is a loss, Otto I think can come in an be a 13/6 type of player who will be a HUGE upgrade defensively. Their biggest chance at improvement is from within, if they can find a perimeter four who can give their guards a chance to make a significant leap. Dudley may be that guy by January but they'd be better off dumping a non fit like Blair and doubling up at the stretch 4 w/Dudley on the shelf.

While I disagree with your prediction for the Wiz this year (I think a 4/5 seed is again their likely landing spot), this isn't a do or die season. Long term, this nucleus has has potential to achieve beyond that.

I think these are kind of mind-blowing positions. We started last year 19-6, because we had an extra all-star level player (Butler). Once he was replaced by the real Rasual Butler, we played the rest of the season 27-30. The final 30 games of the season we went 14-16. We were 7-7 in March. We closed the regular season going 5-3 in April. 3 of those wins were against Philadelphia & NY, arguably the worst two teams in the league and playing w/ nothing at stake.

How are we going to be *better* this year? We lost Pierce, who played @2000 minutes at a high level. Our replacement for him is lucky to contribute 1000 minutes. The Butler dream ended; Neal and Anderson will be hard-pressed to equal his overall season productivity, given the hot start he had.

It'd take an enormous jump from Beal & Porter to get us back to the success we had last year, which was essentially the same level of success we'd had the previous year. Even that seems hard to imagine; there are too many minutes to fill, and the guys we have are mostly too old to increase their minutes and/or not good enough to fill them at last year's level.

Pierce categorically did not play at a 'high' level. We'll be better next year because we're going to play with a dramatically different offensive philosophy than the one we used throughout the regular season.

[keynote]

I hope Nene reads about this injury and recommits himself to shedding about 15 lbs, and working on his jumper. That'll take the load off of his knees and feet and prolong his career.

This is a contract year for him, so if he's at all interested in getting one final payday (vs. pulling a West and re-upping for pennies for the contender du jour), he should come into camp in terrific shape.

[daSwami]

Funny, the Wizards part of the Post sports page is offline now.

GRUNFELD!!!!! *shakes fist angrily at the sky*

[FAH1223]

I said when the Wiz got him - he had the same injury issues Webster had when the Wiz got him. Just be glad EG didn't extend him. And the only reason he didn't was hope for Durant, so there's an indirect benefit from going after Durant - cup half full.

That pick will turn into a Clarkson is my guess, Ruz. This is going to hurt worse than at face value.

Maybe it gives Martell Webster some burn and the opportunity to earn a trade ...

CCJ, the pick is actually a top 55 protected 2nd round pick

[LyricalRico]

1st back surgery, not 3rd so expecting Martell Webster is a bit much. The AA signing also makes more sense to those who thought the wing depth was overkill. This only really hurts in terms of having a stretch 4 for 20 minutes a night. 3-4 month TL puts his return in November, realistically he's not back to himself until January but again, it only hurts from a stretch 4 perspective. Ideal? Of course not but when you're not taking any long term $ and got him for nothing, it really isn't a terrible risk.

This. Definitely disappointing, but not the end of the world and puts the other moves in perspective. I echo the concerns others have about the PF spot, so let's see how that plays out between now and camp. Still lots of time left.

[nate33]

I liked the Dudley signing initially because he's a fine rotation player. I questioned the desire to play him much (or even starting him) at the 4 considering he's barely 6-5, pretty unathletic & doesn't rebound well for a 3. Knowing the history with these types of injuries and the fact Dudley is only on a one year deal... I'm disappointed (but not surprised - it's Ernie geez) that the Wizards still went ahead with the deal. The likelihood of Dudley being gone to January is pretty high (because he'll need time to work himself into shape after being cleared by the doctors). To expect him to come back, adjust to a new team, roster & system, and play WELL on the fly without a training camp seems dubious at best. As much as liked Dudley, his injury would have precluded me from signing him.

Makes total sense why we signed Anderson now. Ernie knew Dudley wouldn't be a factor early in the year.

We still have a MASSIVE gaping hole at PF if were assuming Nene as our backup C now. Gooden & Hump is a pretty sad duo at PF for a franchise that has hopes of going places this year.

Yup.

I liked the Dudley signing before I knew about the injury. Obviously, now it doesn't look so good.

One thing worth noting is that Dudley was acquired using our TPE, a TPE that had limited usefulness because there weren't a lot of half-decent players on expiring contracts with a salary of $4.65M or less. I guess what I'm saying is that the opportunity cost was low. Even if Dudley only ends up playing half a season, the trade was still defensible because the alternative was doing nothing with the TPE and letting it expire next summer.

Were there any other similar players (rotation caliber, $4.65M or less salary, expiring contract) traded for a TPE this offseason?

[Dat2U]

If they play Nene for the first 8 minutes of the game at PF then backup center rest of the way, it won't be so bad. It's basically what they did in the playoffs.

It's strange to me how people think there is a huge gaping hole on the roster without Pierce. He was mediocre for the entire regular season and is too old to play big minutes. He hit a few big shots in the playoffs, and that was it. We don't have a massive need for veteran leadership at this point. Wall and Gortat are veterans with legit playoff experience.

Did you also notice we got off to slow starts nearly every game? It won't be so bad? Really? Nene is a backup at this stage of his career. He's not the same guy from 2 years ago or even a year ago. Starting him hinders spacing and makes life tougher offensively for everyone else. Defensively, asking him to check smaller 4s is a recipe for trouble. This is not just about Pierce, it's about having a playable option at PF that won't drain us either offensively or defensively. Gooden & Hump a bit role players who shouldn't be asked to play a big role. Asking Porter to play extended minutes at the 4 seems ridiculous considering how light in the pants he is. We need obvious help upfront and I have trouble figuring out why some people would believe otherwise.

Yeah, we're significantly worse offensively with Nene, but better defensively. Our small lineups were scoring like 1.2 ppp in the playoffs or something crazy like that, which we can still go to without Dudley. Dudley/Nene aren't the keys to this season or even close.

You act like standing behind the 3pt line and doing some rebounding is a huge role for Gooden and Hump. They can succeed at that for stretches at time vs certain lineups. Hump has been a good rotation player for years now and can play 20+ minutes a night in the NBA. Don't see a huge problem there.

You realize PFs have to do more than just stand behind the 3pt line and rebounding right? You know, like make shots, defend at a high level, make good decisions, be able to force the D to pay attention to you offensively so were not playing 4 on 5. Gooden is a good rebounder and 3 pt shooter but doesn't make good decisions with the ball & doesn't defend well either. Hump is also a good rebounder and an excellent mid-range shooter but teams don't respect his shot and tend to play off... maybe because he's a low usage guy... but whatever the case defenses don't pay him much attention so spacing is still bad. Hump is also a meh defender with poor awareness/reaction to plays. If he doesn't help spacing & he's a poor defender, there's actually very little reason to play him, despite whatever the rebounding percentage may be. This is why I see Hump as an empty stats guy and no, I don't think of him as a good rotation player, especially when his on/off numbers have been poor to very bad his entire career.

[nate33]

Dat2U,

Our PF situation is EXACTLY THE SAME as last year, except that Nene is a year older. While there is no question that PF was the weakest position on the team, we were still functional. I don't understand the predictions of doom and gloom.

I'm guessing it has a lot to do with your assessment of the deterioration of Nene. You apparently assume that the Nene in Game 1 of the new season will be just like the Nene of Game 82 last season. I don't think that's the case. Nene is good when healthy, and lousy when he is dinged up. As he gets older, he gets dinged up more often, but he should be healthy in Game 1. He'll be fine for a while. Last year, we had maybe a 1000 minutes of "Good Nene" and 700 minutes of "Crappy Nene". This season, I expect more like 800 minutes of "Good Nene" and 800 minutes of "Crappy Nene". All told, we will lose about 200 minutes of actual good play. That's not a huge deal. It will be offset by Humphries and Gooden taking more of Seraphin's minutes.

Hopefully, when those nagging injuries start to accumulate, Dudley will be back and able to step in at PF for 10 minutes a night.

[gtn130]

Did you also notice we got off to slow starts nearly every game? It won't be so bad? Really? Nene is a backup at this stage of his career. He's not the same guy from 2 years ago or even a year ago. Starting him hinders spacing and makes life tougher offensively for everyone else. Defensively, asking him to check smaller 4s is a recipe for trouble. This is not just about Pierce, it's about having a playable option at PF that won't drain us either offensively or defensively. Gooden & Hump a bit role players who shouldn't be asked to play a big role. Asking Porter to play extended minutes at the 4 seems ridiculous considering how light in the pants he is. We need obvious help upfront and I have trouble figuring out why some people would believe otherwise.

Yeah, we're significantly worse offensively with Nene, but better defensively. Our small lineups were scoring like 1.2 ppp in the playoffs or something crazy like that, which we can still go to without Dudley. Dudley/Nene aren't the keys to this season or even close.

You act like standing behind the 3pt line and doing some rebounding is a huge role for Gooden and Hump. They can succeed at that for stretches at time vs certain lineups. Hump has been a good rotation player for years now and can play 20+ minutes a night in the NBA. Don't see a huge problem there.

You realize PFs have to do more than just stand behind the 3pt line and rebounding right? You know, like make shots, defend at a high level, make good decisions, be able to force the D to pay attention to you offensively so were not playing 4 on 5. Gooden is a good rebounder and 3 pt shooter but doesn't make good decisions with the ball & doesn't defend well either. Hump is also a good rebounder and an excellent mid-range shooter but teams don't respect his shot and tend to play off... maybe because he's a low usage guy... but whatever the case defenses don't pay him much attention so spacing is still bad. Hump is also a meh defender with poor awareness/reaction to plays. If he doesn't help spacing & he's a poor defender, there's actually very little reason to play him, despite whatever the rebounding percentage may be. This is why I see Hump as an empty stats guy and no, I don't think of him as a good rotation player, especially when his on/off numbers have been poor to very bad his entire career.

You don't say? Here's the thing: In the playoffs we were good enough offensively playing small and the point differential was so heavily in our favor, that the defensive loss of playing small vs playing Nene didn't matter. The front office has correctly taken note of this and all of our moves this offseason have been pointing toward us returning to those small lineups. Yes, Gooden and Hump are far from perfect stretch 4s. Neither are rim protectors, but they are serviceable at a minimum overall, and the spacing they provide greatly outweighs their deficiencies.

Also, I don't know why you think Hump can't create space. There is evidence that he was draining 3s in practice all through the playoffs. He was drilling long 2s all year as well, so thinking he can't take a few steps back and do the same with an offseason of practice, is quite strange.

[Darko Miliminutes]

I'd bet $$$ the wiz FO knew about this. Don't need Dudley until the playoffs anyway. And he's a constant locker room guy!

Very little chance this was unknown. Quit trippin suckaaas.

[LyricalRico]

One thing worth noting is that Dudley was acquired using our TPE, a TPE that had limited usefulness because there weren't a lot of half-decent players on expiring contracts with a salary of $4.65M or less. I guess what I'm saying is that the opportunity cost was low. Even if Dudley only ends up playing half a season, the trade was still defensible because the alternative was doing nothing with the TPE and letting it expire next summer.

A small TPE and a heavily protected 2nd wouldn't have gotten anything else IMO. As long as we get at least a solid second-half of the season and playoffs from him, it's still a net plus IMO.

[Dat2U]

Dat2U,

Our PF situation is EXACTLY THE SAME as last year, except that Nene is a year older. While there is no question that PF was the weakest position on the team, we were still functional. I don't understand the predictions of doom and gloom.

The predictions of doom & gloom are actually me saying were a 42-43 win team (which is not far off from last year in a likely improved East this time around) so maybe were just looking at this differently.

For a team that's gone to the 2nd round twice and lost in six games both times, taking a step back seems like an unnecessary price to pay while waiting on Durant in 2016. A core unit gets only so many shots at trying to punch through. Yes Wall & Beal are still young but that doesn't mean we should take NOW for granted. We may survive a regular season with basically nothing at PF but in the playoffs we desperately needed Pierce and even more at PF to survive and advance. I don't buy the logical argument you tried to make about Nene's minutes. He looked done long before the playoffs began and our record showed over the 2nd half of the year. We needed help at PF last season. We need even more now.

And again you keep making arguments about Kris Humphries getting more minutes. That's not a win in my book. Being slighlty less disasterous than Seraphin doesn't necessarily equal additional wins.

[nuposse04]

One thing worth noting is that Dudley was acquired using our TPE, a TPE that had limited usefulness because there weren't a lot of half-decent players on expiring contracts with a salary of $4.65M or less. I guess what I'm saying is that the opportunity cost was low. Even if Dudley only ends up playing half a season, the trade was still defensible because the alternative was doing nothing with the TPE and letting it expire next summer.

A small TPE and a heavily protected 2nd wouldn't have gotten anything else IMO. As long as we get at least a solid second-half of the season and playoffs from him, it's still a net plus IMO.

Having a roster spot would be more useful then a dead weight player. Any assumption that Jared will be even mediocre when he comes back is foolish, he is a liability until he proves otherwise. Just because it is first back surgery doesn't absolve him of a typically tricky recovery. Trading for an injured player on a one year rental is stupid no matter how you try to spin it, and I'm sure the pro EG crowd will do their best at this spin job.

[dckingsfan]

One thing worth noting is that Dudley was acquired using our TPE, a TPE that had limited usefulness because there weren't a lot of half-decent players on expiring contracts with a salary of $4.65M or less. I guess what I'm saying is that the opportunity cost was low. Even if Dudley only ends up playing half a season, the trade was still defensible because the alternative was doing nothing with the TPE and letting it expire next summer.

A small TPE and a heavily protected 2nd wouldn't have gotten anything else IMO. As long as we get at least a solid second-half of the season and playoffs from him, it's still a net plus IMO.

Having a roster spot would be more useful then a dead weight player. Any assumption that Jared will be even mediocre when he comes back is foolish, he is a liability until he proves otherwise. Just because it is first back surgery doesn't absolve him of a typically tricky recovery. Trading for an injured player on a one year rental is stupid no matter how you try to spin it, and I'm sure the pro EG crowd will do their best at this spin job.

Add Webster to that and you really have to shake your head...