Official Trade Thread - Part XXXI

[fishercob]

FWIW, I floated this a few days ago on the Bucks board and they were generally un-enthused, not that it means anything. But what was interesting (b/c I made the Polish community point) is that apparently last season one of their posters sat behind the Wizards bench when they were in town, and clearly heard Gortat and Hump talking about how much of a hole Milwaukee was and that they couldn't understand why anyone would ever play there.

Now there's a Gortat-Monroe deal floating around on the trade board, involving Morris and MCW. The dream scenario would be to include Jason Smith instead, because doing so as part of the Cousins strategy I outlined would but the Wizards more than $25M under the cap next year.

Gortat gets absolutely no respect from the realgm community. Many think he's too old, on the verge of a steep decline & on a bad contract and some even suggest we would need sweetener to move a 32 yr old with $38 mil left on his deal.

The deal trade you mentioned above does work with Smith. Maybe if you substitute Vaughn & Ennis (two draft disappointments - I think we could decline the option on Ennis while Vaughn would have one year left) that would make it a little more enticing from Milwaukee's standpoint.

Gortat and Smith for Monroe works.

Wiz give: Gortat, Beal, Smith
Wiz get Cousins, Monroe, Mclemore

Mil gives: MOnroe, MCW, 1st
Mil gets: Gortat, Smith

Sac gives: Cousins, Mclemore
Sac gets: Beal, MCW, first

While we are fantasizing, after making this trade, the Wiz would need to just move Morris or Nicholson (which should be relatively inexpensive to do), to create the necessary cap space to sign Blake Griffin -- this accounts for Otto's cap hold.

After doing so, we'd look like this:

Cousins/Mahinmi
Blake/Nicholson or Morris
Otto/Oubre
Satoransky/Otto
Wall/Satoransky

That's 8 guys. Next year's draft seems wing-heavy in the late lotto to mid teens, so that's good. Couple of smart signings and we're beating Cleveland for the conference title. Another good bounce or two and we're parading down Constitution Avenue with no shirts on.

Who's with me!!?!

[Ruzious]

Gortat gets absolutely no respect from the realgm community. Many think he's too old, on the verge of a steep decline & on a bad contract and some even suggest we would need sweetener to move a 32 yr old with $38 mil left on his deal.

The deal trade you mentioned above does work with Smith. Maybe if you substitute Vaughn & Ennis (two draft disappointments - I think we could decline the option on Ennis while Vaughn would have one year left) that would make it a little more enticing from Milwaukee's standpoint.

Gortat and Smith for Monroe works.

Wiz give: Gortat, Beal, Smith
Wiz get Cousins, Monroe, Mclemore

Mil gives: MOnroe, MCW, 1st
Mil gets: Gortat, Smith

Sac gives: Cousins, Mclemore
Sac gets: Beal, MCW, first

While we are fantasizing, after making this trade, the Wiz would need to just move Morris or Nicholson (which should be relatively inexpensive to do), to create the necessary cap space to sign Blake Griffin -- this accounts for Otto's cap hold.

After doing so, we'd look like this:

Cousins/Mahinmi
Blake/Nicholson or Morris
Otto/Oubre
Satoransky/Otto
Wall/Satoransky

That's 8 guys. Next year's draft seems wing-heavy in the late lotto to mid teens, so that's good. Couple of smart signings and we're beating Cleveland for the conference title. Another good bounce or two and we're parading down Constitution Avenue with no shirts on.

Who's with me!!?!

I'm not sure it'd be fair to the rest of the Association.

Btw, word in Milwaukee is that Thon Maker is killing it in practice and is expected to take minutes from Henson once training camp starts. I'm not a big Thon believer, but one thing he does is hustle, and Henson has a tendency to get lacadaisical (sp?) on the court.

[Dark Faze]

Would you guys do a Porter for Sabonis trade straight up

[Ruzious]

Would you guys do a Porter for Sabonis trade straight up

Who would we start at the 3? Unless something's drastically changed, Oubre isn't even close to being ready. It'd be willing to wait a year and then consider it. At this point, because we have no other options at the 3, I wouldn't even consider it. But I am intrigued by Sabonis. I would consider an Oubre for Sabonis deal.

[gambitx777]

Would you guys do a Porter for Sabonis trade straight up

Who would we start at the 3? Unless something's drastically changed, Oubre isn't even close to being ready. It'd be willing to wait a year and then consider it. At this point, because we have no other options at the 3, I wouldn't even consider it. But I am intrigued by Sabonis. I would consider an Oubre for Sabonis deal.

We really can't trade a wing right now. Like at all with out getting a body back in return.

[penbeast0]

Gortat and Smith for Monroe works.

Wiz give: Gortat, Beal, Smith
Wiz get Cousins, Monroe, Mclemore

Mil gives: MOnroe, MCW, 1st
Mil gets: Gortat, Smith

Sac gives: Cousins, Mclemore
Sac gets: Beal, MCW, first

What happened to Monroe and McLemore? Waived? Stretched? Sitting on the bench waving towels in case of injury?

[payitforward]

Would you guys do a Porter for Sabonis trade straight up

Who would we start at the 3? Unless something's drastically changed, Oubre isn't even close to being ready. It'd be willing to wait a year and then consider it. At this point, because we have no other options at the 3, I wouldn't even consider it. But I am intrigued by Sabonis. I would consider an Oubre for Sabonis deal.

I'm curious why anyone would even consider trading Porter for Sabonis. Certainly Sabonis looks to be an outstanding prospect, but Porter has become one of the better SFs in the league after only 2 years of play (i.e. leaving out his rookie year when injury kept him off the court).

As to Oubre for Sabonis, on the other hand, I'd do that deal all day and twice on Sunday!

[dangermouse]

I'd be all over Oubre for Sabonis. A young C/PF prospect with potential would be fantastic on this team. They want Keef too?

[krii]

Sabonis could be starter in day one here. I love this guy. He will be a great player in two-three years.

But Otto for Sabonis? no way. Oubre isn't ready and I'm not as hyped as some others here - I believe that Otto will be just better.

Oubre for Sabonis? Hell yeah!

[fishercob]

Gortat and Smith for Monroe works.

Wiz give: Gortat, Beal, Smith
Wiz get Cousins, Monroe, Mclemore

Mil gives: MOnroe, MCW, 1st
Mil gets: Gortat, Smith

Sac gives: Cousins, Mclemore
Sac gets: Beal, MCW, first

What happened to Monroe and McLemore? Waived? Stretched? Sitting on the bench waving towels in case of injury?

They are both expiring, so it doesn't matter all that much to me. The move isn't really about what it makes the Wizards roster look like to today so much as it is the offseason. So if we waive them both now and root around for D-league gems, I'd have no problem with that. I'd also be fine holding on to both and seeing if another team (Dallas, NO, etc) sustains an injury whereby we could flip Monroe for another expiring and an asset.

[Dark Faze]

Would you guys do a Porter for Sabonis trade straight up

Who would we start at the 3? Unless something's drastically changed, Oubre isn't even close to being ready. It'd be willing to wait a year and then consider it. At this point, because we have no other options at the 3, I wouldn't even consider it. But I am intrigued by Sabonis. I would consider an Oubre for Sabonis deal.

I'm curious why anyone would even consider trading Porter for Sabonis. Certainly Sabonis looks to be an outstanding prospect, but Porter has become one of the better SFs in the league after only 2 years of play (i.e. leaving out his rookie year when injury kept him off the court).

As to Oubre for Sabonis, on the other hand, I'd do that deal all day and twice on Sunday!

Don't really understand the intense love the fanbase has for Porter to be honest. I doubt the Rockets would even swap Ariza for Porter straight up. Things can change but he's just not that good right now. He doesn't have much value at all as a guy who's rookie contract is ending too. He's Harrison Barnes without the championship and USA basketball experience or the excuse that he was held back by the immense amount of talent on the team.

[payitforward]

Who would we start at the 3? Unless something's drastically changed, Oubre isn't even close to being ready. It'd be willing to wait a year and then consider it. At this point, because we have no other options at the 3, I wouldn't even consider it. But I am intrigued by Sabonis. I would consider an Oubre for Sabonis deal.

I'm curious why anyone would even consider trading Porter for Sabonis. Certainly Sabonis looks to be an outstanding prospect, but Porter has become one of the better SFs in the league after only 2 years of play (i.e. leaving out his rookie year when injury kept him off the court).

As to Oubre for Sabonis, on the other hand, I'd do that deal all day and twice on Sunday!

Don't really understand the intense love the fanbase has for Porter to be honest. I doubt the Rockets would even swap Ariza for Porter straight up. Things can change but he's just not that good right now. He doesn't have much value at all as a guy who's rookie contract is ending too. He's Harrison Barnes without the championship and USA basketball experience or the excuse that he was held back by the immense amount of talent on the team.

How can he be a movie star? He doesn't look like a movie star.

And, you're right -- he's exactly like Harrison Barnes. Oh, except for outscoring Barnes, having a higher TS%, getting more defensive rebounds, more offensive rebounds, blocking more shots, and getting way more steals, except for those trivial things Otto Porter and Harrison Barnes are real real similar.

[Dark Faze]

And, you're right -- he's exactly like Harrison Barnes. Oh, except for outscoring Barnes, having a higher TS%, getting more defensive rebounds, more offensive rebounds, blocking more shots, and getting way more steals, except for those trivial things Otto Porter and Harrison Barnes are real real similar.

You're cherry picking really hard lol. They had very similar stats, but we know Harrison is the better man defender and he could only put up so many shots on a team like that. Otto played with a pass first point guard with Brad out of the lineup much of the year while not even getting a guy like Kieff until the deadline. He could have taken as many shots as he wanted.

The fact is that they are comparable players but you'd be hard pressed to rank him over Harrison right now even if the difference is not large. Harrison has simply done more in a situation demanding him to be a roleplayer. Otto has done very little in a situation where we were desperate for someone to grab the reins offensively all year in the East.

[Ruzious]

You're cherry picking really hard lol. They had very similar stats, but we know Harrison is the better man defender and he could only put up so many shots on a team like that. Otto played with a pass first point guard with Brad out of the lineup much of the year while not even getting a guy like Kieff until the deadline. He could have taken as many shots as he wanted.

The fact is that they are comparable players but you'd be hard pressed to rank him over Harrison right now even if the difference is not large. Harrison has simply done more in a situation demanding him to be a roleplayer. Otto has done very little in a situation where we were desperate for someone to grab the reins offensively all year in the East.

But while Otto significantly out-produced Barnes, he was also a more efficient scorer. That's despite Barnes having the best offensive players in the world on his team. And we're not even getting into how bad Barnes looked in the playoffs - missing open shot after open shot. Even with his faults, Barnes snagged a 4/94.4 contract with Dallas. Given that you said they're comparable, you'd have to agree that Otto has a LOT of value around the NBA.

[payitforward]

You're cherry picking really hard lol. They had very similar stats, but we know Harrison is the better man defender and he could only put up so many shots on a team like that. Otto played with a pass first point guard with Brad out of the lineup much of the year while not even getting a guy like Kieff until the deadline. He could have taken as many shots as he wanted.

The fact is that they are comparable players but you'd be hard pressed to rank him over Harrison right now even if the difference is not large. Harrison has simply done more in a situation demanding him to be a roleplayer. Otto has done very little in a situation where we were desperate for someone to grab the reins offensively all year in the East.

BS, start to finish. No, Porter couldn't take "as many shots as he wanted," no Barnes isn't the "better man defender," no they are not "comparable players," no it isn't hard to rank Porter over Barnes, no Barnes hasn't "done more", nor has Porter "done very little."

OTOH, Barnes had a very good 2014-15 season -- his 3d year, as last year was Otto's 3d year. Compare their 3d years, and it's very close between them. If Otto were to go downhill in his 4th year, the way Barnes did, the comparison might make sense.

[Dark Faze]

But while Otto significantly out-produced Barnes, he was also a more efficient scorer. That's despite Barnes having the best offensive players in the world on his team. And we're not even getting into how bad Barnes looked in the playoffs - missing open shot after open shot. Even with his faults, Barnes snagged a 4/94.4 contract with Dallas. Given that you said they're comparable, you'd have to agree that Otto has a LOT of value around the NBA.

The eff? What are these numbers you guys are looking at?

Harrison: 11.7, 1.8, 4.9, 0.6, 0.2 ORTG 114
Otto: 11.6, 1.6, 5.2, 1.4, 0.4 ORTG 112

The difference here is that one guy 30.9 MPG on a top 3 team all time with a clear excuse for not being able to give more offensively, and the other guy was....on I think the most injured team in the league in terms of minutes missed with the teams best scorer being a pass first PG...oh, and in the Eastern Conference

Yes, Barnes got overpaid. But why? Because of the CONTEXT both of you are missing. That context being Barnes got a team usa invite for a reason. That context being he is thought to have upside because of the role he had to play with the teammates around him.

If it were just numbers then yea, Otto should be entitled to the same contract. But that's in a world without context.

BS, start to finish. No, Porter couldn't take "as many shots as he wanted," no Barnes isn't the "better man defender," no they are not "comparable players," no it isn't hard to rank Porter over Barnes, no Barnes hasn't "done more", nor has Porter "done very little."

OTOH, Barnes had a very good 2014-15 season -- his 3d year, as last year was Otto's 3d year. Compare their 3d years, and it's very close between them. If Otto were to go downhill in his 4th year, the way Barnes did, the comparison might make sense.

Please. The truth was that there was nothing stopping Otto from really breaking out if he'd wanted to. Who was stealing shots from him? He never got the green light to take awful shots under Witt obviously, but absolutely nobody was taking shots from him if he wanted to really assert himself offensively. Yes, Porter has done very little lmao. By any metric he's done very little. He's shown PROMISE, but he isn't even talked about as a guy who has all-star potential. At least Beal has had that going for him. I don't know by what metric it is you think Porter is a better man defender than Harrison. Steals? Lol. It's so convenient that you leave out the fact that Harrison was injured for nearly a quarter of the season by the way. And completely ignoring the context of my argument--that Harrison clearly was limited in taking on a bigger offensive role given who he plays with.

They had very similar stats last year. Not sure why you're pretending otherwise. Oh..my bad, Otto had a .564 TS vs .559. Lets conveniently forget that Harrison still had a better ORTG despite your claim that he was worse.

[payitforward]

As I just wrote in another thread, Dark Faze, you are right about what Colin Kaepernick did. About this, not so much.

But it's not worth arguing with you about it -- you said you didn't understand why people like Otto so much, and you are right: you don't understand. Leave it at that.

[Chuck-Cheese]

FWIW, I floated this a few days ago on the Bucks board and they were generally un-enthused, not that it means anything. But what was interesting (b/c I made the Polish community point) is that apparently last season one of their posters sat behind the Wizards bench when they were in town, and clearly heard Gortat and Hump talking about how much of a hole Milwaukee was and that they couldn't understand why anyone would ever play there.

Now there's a Gortat-Monroe deal floating around on the trade board, involving Morris and MCW. The dream scenario would be to include Jason Smith instead, because doing so as part of the Cousins strategy I outlined would but the Wizards more than $25M under the cap next year.

Gortat gets absolutely no respect from the realgm community. Many think he's too old, on the verge of a steep decline & on a bad contract and some even suggest we would need sweetener to move a 32 yr old with $38 mil left on his deal.

The deal trade you mentioned above does work with Smith. Maybe if you substitute Vaughn & Ennis (two draft disappointments - I think we could decline the option on Ennis while Vaughn would have one year left) that would make it a little more enticing from Milwaukee's standpoint.

Gortat and Smith for Monroe works.

Wiz give: Gortat, Beal, Smith
Wiz get Cousins, Monroe, Mclemore

Mil gives: MOnroe, MCW, 1st
Mil gets: Gortat, Smith

Sac gives: Cousins, Mclemore
Sac gets: Beal, MCW, first

Just curious why you think you could aquire Cousins for a package of Beal, MCW and a mid round 1st. Don't you think other teams would be inclined to offer more? What would the wizard want back if they traded Wall? Would a package a guard equivalent to Beal, a backup point guard and a mid round first be enough?

[Ruzious]

But while Otto significantly out-produced Barnes, he was also a more efficient scorer. That's despite Barnes having the best offensive players in the world on his team. And we're not even getting into how bad Barnes looked in the playoffs - missing open shot after open shot. Even with his faults, Barnes snagged a 4/94.4 contract with Dallas. Given that you said they're comparable, you'd have to agree that Otto has a LOT of value around the NBA.

The eff? What are these numbers you guys are looking at?

Harrison: 11.7, 1.8, 4.9, 0.6, 0.2 ORTG 114
Otto: 11.6, 1.6, 5.2, 1.4, 0.4 ORTG 112

The difference here is that one guy 30.9 MPG on a top 3 team all time with a clear excuse for not being able to give more offensively, and the other guy was....on I think the most injured team in the league in terms of minutes missed with the teams best scorer being a pass first PG...oh, and in the Eastern Conference

Yes, Barnes got overpaid. But why? Because of the CONTEXT both of you are missing. That context being Barnes got a team usa invite for a reason. That context being he is thought to have upside because of the role he had to play with the teammates around him.

If it were just numbers then yea, Otto should be entitled to the same contract. But that's in a world without context.

I'm probably not one to talk, but... your posting style is too argumentative. Look at the way you started your post. Anyway, when I said Otto is more productive AND more efficient, the numbers I'm looking at - PER for overall production where Otto was 14.4 vs Barnes' 11.2. You say it's because his teammates are so good - fine. That would mean his scoring efficiency should be significantly better than Otto's. Instead, it's worse. TS%: Otto was .56, Barnes was .54. eFG: Otto was .54, Barnes was .51.

[Dat2U]

You're cherry picking really hard lol. They had very similar stats, but we know Harrison is the better man defender and he could only put up so many shots on a team like that. Otto played with a pass first point guard with Brad out of the lineup much of the year while not even getting a guy like Kieff until the deadline. He could have taken as many shots as he wanted.

The fact is that they are comparable players but you'd be hard pressed to rank him over Harrison right now even if the difference is not large. Harrison has simply done more in a situation demanding him to be a roleplayer. Otto has done very little in a situation where we were desperate for someone to grab the reins offensively all year in the East.

Or the fact is you just enjoy incessantly bashing a player that isn't aesthetically pleasing to you. Although I'm not sure what Barnes has done to earn your respect other than being a former #1 prospect out of high school & have the luck to play with Golden State Warriors. Whatever the case there's little to no evidence that supports your opinion.