Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIV

[montestewart]

Continued from here.

[Rafael122]

From what I've seen of Mac and Ochefu in Summer League, Ochefu might be able to stick around but he's 7th on the depth chart when it comes to bigs: Morris, Gortat, Smith, Mahinmi, Scott, McCullough. McCullough is going to get the playing time over Ochefu.

And Mac...you can probably get someone from off the street if you're desperate but I don't see how you keep Ochefu and Mac on this team.

Even if they waive McCullough, they're over the luxury tax by about $1.1 million so there's got to be another move coming from this team if Ted doesn't want to pay for the tax. That's why I suggested a trade with Atlanta, they're under the cap floor and have about $15 million in cap space. They could easily absorb Mahinmi's contract but I'm thinking the package Brooklyn got for Carroll might be enough, only maybe we could do the 2019 first rounder instead of 2018.

[gambitx777]

From what I've seen of Mac and Ochefu in Summer League, Ochefu might be able to stick around but he's 7th on the depth chart when it comes to bigs: Morris, Gortat, Smith, Mahinmi, Scott, McCullough. McCullough is going to get the playing time over Ochefu.

And Mac...you can probably get someone from off the street if you're desperate but I don't see how you keep Ochefu and Mac on this team.

Even if they waive McCullough, they're over the luxury tax by about $1.1 million so there's got to be another move coming from this team if Ted doesn't want to pay for the tax. That's why I suggested a trade with Atlanta, they're under the cap floor and have about $15 million in cap space. They could easily absorb Mahinmi's contract but I'm thinking the package Brooklyn got for Carroll might be enough, only maybe we could do the 2019 first rounder instead of 2018.

Um waiving Ochifu and or mac would be incredibly stupid. They are on really cheap deal and we are over the tac, we need bodies. We are also about 7-8 mill over the line once otto signs his deal. So plus moving mahinmi won't get us enough space for a back up big. unless you pair it with anouther move of some kind. like say mahinmi and a 2018 second and 2019 first to chicago for lopez. Then turn around and trade gortat to a team looking for another center in return for a much cheaper option. Such as gortat and cash for costa or say smith and the rights to aaron white and cash (like 10 mill essentially paying him to play for someone else) for the TPE. Some combo of those moves would get us under the tax and leave us with competent centers to play.

[Dat2U]

From what I've seen of Mac and Ochefu in Summer League, Ochefu might be able to stick around but he's 7th on the depth chart when it comes to bigs: Morris, Gortat, Smith, Mahinmi, Scott, McCullough. McCullough is going to get the playing time over Ochefu.

And Mac...you can probably get someone from off the street if you're desperate but I don't see how you keep Ochefu and Mac on this team.

Even if they waive McCullough, they're over the luxury tax by about $1.1 million so there's got to be another move coming from this team if Ted doesn't want to pay for the tax. That's why I suggested a trade with Atlanta, they're under the cap floor and have about $15 million in cap space. They could easily absorb Mahinmi's contract but I'm thinking the package Brooklyn got for Carroll might be enough, only maybe we could do the 2019 first rounder instead of 2018.

Um waiving Ochifu and or mac would be incredibly stupid. They are on really cheap deal and we are over the tac, we need bodies.

We need more than bodies. We need guys who can actually play. Holding onto guys b/c they are cheap is what's foolish.

I would have thought Ochefu was a long shot to make it another year anyways. It's tough to go through an entire season when 5-6 roster spots are eaten up by guys who cannot help you win under any circumstances.

We can only have so many dreadful guys like Ochefu & McCullough on the roster basically wasting roster spots.

[gambitx777]

From what I've seen of Mac and Ochefu in Summer League, Ochefu might be able to stick around but he's 7th on the depth chart when it comes to bigs: Morris, Gortat, Smith, Mahinmi, Scott, McCullough. McCullough is going to get the playing time over Ochefu.

And Mac...you can probably get someone from off the street if you're desperate but I don't see how you keep Ochefu and Mac on this team.

Even if they waive McCullough, they're over the luxury tax by about $1.1 million so there's got to be another move coming from this team if Ted doesn't want to pay for the tax. That's why I suggested a trade with Atlanta, they're under the cap floor and have about $15 million in cap space. They could easily absorb Mahinmi's contract but I'm thinking the package Brooklyn got for Carroll might be enough, only maybe we could do the 2019 first rounder instead of 2018.

Um waiving Ochifu and or mac would be incredibly stupid. They are on really cheap deal and we are over the tac, we need bodies.

We need more than bodies. We need guys who can actually play. Holding onto guys b/c they are cheap is what's foolish.

I would have thought Ochefu was a long shot to make it another year anyways. It's tough to go through an entire season when 5-6 roster spots are eaten up by guys who cannot help you win under any circumstances.

We can only have so many dreadful guys like Ochefu & McCullough on the roster basically wasting roster spots.

And if we don't get under the tax who exactly would we replace them with that would be better that would help our tax situation ? No one. You are not going to get better than them for cheaper. On a second note, Stop trying to cut the few young developing players we have, Ochifu has shown real improvement in these two summer league games. Mac can play he needs to just find his consistency. And YES YES we do need bodies. we have to have people on the team, The point of my post that you cut out is that cutting these two guys helps nothing with our ta situation since we are about 7-8 mill over the tax. Smith is easy enough to move with enough cash to basically make it so hes playing for the other team for free. Than gets you 5 mill. puts you 2-3 under the tax. if you cut those two guys to get under the tax you loos 3 guys and have no one to replace them because you will be getting back into the ta to replace all 3 of them. You need to do a mahinmi or gortat trade that either A) replaces them with lesser incoming salary players that replaces the out going players in the trade or B) You move one or of them them for little to no incoming salary and you have two or three TPE's and some vet min contracts to use to try and replace them while staying under the tax, Which options B makes it much much harder to make the team actually better depending on the actual moves and option A is really hard to pull off. Either way, flat out cutting Ochifu and mac does you no good, unless they actually **** the bed and so far they have not done that in summer league, not 100%.

[Dat2U]

Can we cut the charade?

Lets stop acting like guys like Ochefu, McCullough etc are "young developing players". They aren't. They are young guys hanging on the fringes of the NBA. The only reason they get treated like "young developing players" is because our GM is adverse to using actual draft picks so we have a bunch of undrafted types in their place.

Ochefu, McCullough and the like are summer league roster filler for a majority of the other teams. Nothing more. Sure every once in a while you'll see an undrafted FA make his mark and become a solid role player in the league. A guy like Mac seems to have a modicum of NBA talent albeit rough around the edges. More than likely however, Mac is just a younger version of Jared Cunningham who simply hasn't been dumped by his original team yet.

It's terrible that there's talk of keeping non-NBA quality guys because we can't afford to sign legitimate NBA types. You would think it's a heckuva indictment that Ernie has screwed the pooch so bad that he can fill out an NBA roster. But that's where we are and one can assume Ernie is going nowhere.

[payitforward]

Can we cut the charade?

Lets stop acting like guys like Ochefu, McCullough etc are "young developing players". They aren't. They are young guys hanging on the fringes of the NBA. The only reason they get treated like "young developing players" is because our GM is adverse to using actual draft picks so we have a bunch of undrafted types in their place.

Ochefu, McCullough and the like are summer league roster filler for a majority of the other teams. Nothing more. Sure every once in a while you'll see an undrafted FA make his mark and become a solid role player in the league. A guy like Mac seems to have a modicum of NBA talent albeit rough around the edges. More than likely however, Mac is just a younger version of Jared Cunningham who simply hasn't been dumped by his original team yet.

It's terrible that there's talk of keeping non-NBA quality guys because we can't afford to sign legitimate NBA types. You would think it's a heckuva indictment that Ernie has screwed the pooch so bad that he can fill out an NBA roster. But that's where we are and one can assume Ernie is going nowhere.

1. If you trade away your R1 picks, or make egregiously bad picks, & do the same w/ your R2 picks, it is inevitable that you will wind up unable to "fill out an NBA roster." It can't be avoided. R1 rookie salaries are governed by a schedule that keeps them low & makes them predictable. R2 players, by convention, get even cheaper deals.

2. If you don't have good players on rookie deals (b/c you've traded away so many picks & made such a high % of bad choices w/ those that remained), then you will have to have bad players on rookie deals. You have to have the rookie deals or else you can't control salary. IOW, it's not that we have to have McCullough, Mac & Ochefu. It's that we have to have those cheap salaries, & we didn't get them the right way -- by drafting well.

3. The Warriors have demonstrated that having good player evaluation & a little imagination, you can solve this problem. $$ used to buy picks is not controlled by the cap, so buy theR2 picks you need to get good players you have identified.

4. Ernie practices the exact opposite of this: he trades R2 picks to acquire bad players who are, by definition, over-paid. He also trades R1 picks for mediocre veterans. & he trades R1 picks to bury his mistakes.

Hence, what we have is not a charade. It's a reality: i.e. with rare exceptions, or where random good luck has helped us, we have players (& holes in the lineup too) that exactly mirror the character & capabilities of our GM.

[dangermouse]

I think I posted in another thread, but we are stacked at C, we don't need Ochefu even as much as he appears to have improved his play. He isn't tall enough, strong enough or athletic enough to even do anything against NBA backups. He'll be great as a Euro, or in China, or maybe even Australia. He's a roster spot we'd be better off filling with someone else. Give Devin a two-way (if we havent).

We have Gortat/Mahinmi/Smith and we should be going small from time to time with Morris at C. That is a pretty good C depth chart. We need more talent at other spots.

[gambitx777]

Can we cut the charade?

Lets stop acting like guys like Ochefu, McCullough etc are "young developing players". They aren't. They are young guys hanging on the fringes of the NBA. The only reason they get treated like "young developing players" is because our GM is adverse to using actual draft picks so we have a bunch of undrafted types in their place.

Ochefu, McCullough and the like are summer league roster filler for a majority of the other teams. Nothing more. Sure every once in a while you'll see an undrafted FA make his mark and become a solid role player in the league. A guy like Mac seems to have a modicum of NBA talent albeit rough around the edges. More than likely however, Mac is just a younger version of Jared Cunningham who simply hasn't been dumped by his original team yet.

It's terrible that there's talk of keeping non-NBA quality guys because we can't afford to sign legitimate NBA types. You would think it's a heckuva indictment that Ernie has screwed the pooch so bad that he can fill out an NBA roster. But that's where we are and one can assume Ernie is going nowhere.

Bro can you cut the bitterness. We all get that EG sucks, sure it would be nice if we had a pick every year and it would be nice if we had not blown so many picks. sure teams like the golden stat worriers can be used as examples. But did they draft KD? no, did they draft Iggy? no. if you take curry off that team and put all the same drafted players on it do they win a tittle, probably not. SO lets no act like the way they did it is the only way to build a winner, When was the last time the kavs kept a R1 pick? Ill wait. its been years btw.

Look Just because they were not drafted does not mean they are not possibly useful players, you ll forget these are humans with work ethics and hearts, they can get better. What if we bought some second rounders and took the as draft picks would that matter? what if we drafted 2 guys and those guys bombed out, but daniel and Mac made other teams, how many of use would be saying many EG is so Fing awful we could have had Ochifu or we could have had Mac they went unrafted and EG took these scrubs hes so awful. Like i hate him to but come on, Drop the bitterness. Yeah we trade a lot of pics, yeah he **** up on two really bad signings last year, kno he has not done any thing flashy, yet, but we had a great year, we came within a handful of plays or shots falling a few different ways of making the EC finals.

I just get ticked off, we have what we have Im not nieve in thinking Ochifu and Mac are going to be KG and ray allen. but damit they are what we have and why not just support and believe in them. Maybe they do end up actually helping the team!

[gambitx777]

I think I posted in another thread, but we are stacked at C, we don't need Ochefu even as much as he appears to have improved his play. He isn't tall enough, strong enough or athletic enough to even do anything against NBA backups. He'll be great as a Euro, or in China, or maybe even Australia. He's a roster spot we'd be better off filling with someone else. Give Devin a two-way (if we havent).

We have Gortat/Mahinmi/Smith and we should be going small from time to time with Morris at C. That is a pretty good C depth chart. We need more talent at other spots.

Who are we going to sign?
One of those threee if not two or all of them are getting moved to get under the tax, its going to happen. Daniel has improved why cut him? Hes 6-11 ? not tall enough? he looks like hes leaned up a bit too which is good, Like come on, give the kid a chance.

[dangermouse]

He must t-rex short arms then, because he doesn't look 6'11" to me.

[NatP4]

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yd2fkxxd

Mostly came up with this because I wanna see Oubre in a nuggets uniform, but I like the deal for us also.

Wall-Beal-Porter-Juancho along with adding Barton as a solid two way bench scorer would be a nice improvement over Oubre, unless he makes another big jump in year3, which won't surprise me.

Creates some lux tax room, 3 years left on Juanchos rookie deal as opposed to 2. Creates cap relief next summer with smith off the books.

[Meliorus]

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yd2fkxxd

Mostly came up with this because I wanna see Oubre in a nuggets uniform, but I like the deal for us also.

Wall-Beal-Porter-Juancho along with adding Barton as a solid two way bench scorer would be a nice improvement over Oubre, unless he makes another big jump in year3, which won't surprise me.

Creates some lux tax room, 3 years left on Juanchos rookie deal as opposed to 2. Creates cap relief next summer with smith off the books.

"Two way" come on now, Barton is like a piece of paper on defense.

You're one of the biggest Oubre supporters on here, why would we trade him. Eventually getting the starting lineup to be Wall-Beal-Oubre-Porter from 1 through 4 is one of the glimmers of hope we can cling onto in the future. It was already immensely successful last season.

[Meliorus]

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yd2fkxxd

Mostly came up with this because I wanna see Oubre in a nuggets uniform, but I like the deal for us also.

Wall-Beal-Porter-Juancho along with adding Barton as a solid two way bench scorer would be a nice improvement over Oubre, unless he makes another big jump in year3, which won't surprise me.

Creates some lux tax room, 3 years left on Juanchos rookie deal as opposed to 2. Creates cap relief next summer with smith off the books.

"Two way" come on now, Barton is like a piece of paper on defense.

You're one of the biggest Oubre supporters on here, why would we trade him. Eventually getting the starting lineup to be Wall-Beal-Oubre-Porter from 1 through 4 is one of the glimmers of hope we can cling onto for the future. It was already immensely successful last season. I do think that if Oubre doesn't improve in year 3, there is a problem.

[NatP4]

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yd2fkxxd

Mostly came up with this because I wanna see Oubre in a nuggets uniform, but I like the deal for us also.

Wall-Beal-Porter-Juancho along with adding Barton as a solid two way bench scorer would be a nice improvement over Oubre, unless he makes another big jump in year3, which won't surprise me.

Creates some lux tax room, 3 years left on Juanchos rookie deal as opposed to 2. Creates cap relief next summer with smith off the books.

"Two way" come on now, Barton is like a piece of paper on defense.

You're one of the biggest Oubre supporters on here, why would we trade him. Eventually getting the starting lineup to be Wall-Beal-Oubre-Porter from 1 through 4 is one of the glimmers of hope we can cling onto in the future. It was already immensely successful last season.

Idk this stems from my lack of faith in that ever happening. Brooks elected to play Jason Smith at PF all season(statistically our worst lineup) over giving Oubre starters minutes alongside Otto(statistically our best) and that's not even mentioning his love affair with Morris, and now we have Mike Scott also. We have what? 2 years left of prime peak John Wall? I just worry that we won't ever see Wall-Beal-Oubre-Porter enough even if it committing to full time small ball fits the new NBA perfectly

[payitforward]

He must t-rex short arms then, because he doesn't look 6'11" to me.

At the combine, Ochefu measured 6'10 1/2" in shoes, w/ a 7'3" wingspan.

Time for you to get rid of that old CRT TV, dude!

[pcbothwel]

He must t-rex short arms then, because he doesn't look 6'11" to me.

At the combine, Ochefu measured 6'10 1/2" in shoes, w/ a 7'3" wingspan.

Time for you to get rid of that old CRT TV, dude!

PIF, that wasnt at the combine. That was at a camp when he was 18. He might be even bigger

[Dark Faze]

Would you guys consider Markieff and a first for Jabari Parker?

I could see the trade making sense for both teams at next years deadline. By making this move, the Bucks avoid having to max Jabari and put themselves in a position to have max cap space in a decent free agency class to bring someone in to play with Giannas. They get a good contract in Markieff who doesn't have to be paid for two years.

For us, we take a risk on a top end talent who may end up costing the max, but if healthy could give us a player with clear max upside.

[NatP4]

Would you guys consider Markieff and a first for Jabari Parker?

I could see the trade making sense for both teams at next years deadline. By making this move, the Bucks avoid having to max Jabari and put themselves in a position to have max cap space in a decent free agency class to bring someone in to play with Giannas. They get a good contract in Markieff who doesn't have to be paid for two years.

For us, we take a risk on a top end talent who may end up costing the max, but if healthy could give us a player with clear max upside.

interesting proposal, Parker is the worst defensive player at the small forward position, but could slide up to PF and be less of a liability, and like you said, high end potential. Multiple ACL tears can ruin a player though, is it worth the risk? Will he even be better than Morris in the near future? the combo of Morris and a 1st round salary rookie might be the better choice, just look at McCaw for GS, absolute steal at where he was drafted, already a contributor and has 3 more years at that insanely cheap rookie deal. Parker was a legit 20&6&3 guy after the first torn ACL though, it would probably allow them to move one of Oubre/Porter then for a young talented forward and have a more well rounded core. they could also have the chance to retain Parker next summer with bird rights obviously, when they won't have cap space to pursue free agents on other teams.

I would probably do it.

[80sballboy]

Parker has two years left on a rookie deal. Same with Morris. Can't defend but improved shooter from downtown and 20ppg. I wouldn't trust his knees though. Why would the Bucks do this? To get Morris for 2 years and a late first from us?