Jump into the Poole Party: The Official Jordan Poole Thread

[payitforward]

Here you go:

https://stathead.com/basketball/versus-finder.cgi?request=1&seasons_type=perchoice&player_id1=bealbr01&p1yrfrom=2016&p1yrto=2016&player_id2=poolejo01&p2yrfrom=2022&p2yrto=2022

In this comparison, Poole looks substantially superior to Beal.

Conclusion? This is kind of a waste of time! We can't predict Poole's performance; we'll have to wait & see what he does. Moreover, to what end would we compare him with Bradley Beal? Why is that useful? I can't see why it would be....

[DCZards]

Conclusion? This is kind of a waste of time! We can't predict Poole's performance; we'll have to wait & see what he does. Moreover, to what end would we compare him with Bradley Beal? Why is that useful? I can't see why it would be....

Yup…no more useful than comparing Kuz with Cam Johnson. But we still do it. It’s what happens on message boards like this one.

On the other hand, maybe it does make sense to compare Beal and Poole since one is a former Zard and the other is the guy replacing him in the lineup.

[TGW]

Here you go:

https://stathead.com/basketball/versus-finder.cgi?request=1&seasons_type=perchoice&player_id1=bealbr01&p1yrfrom=2016&p1yrto=2016&player_id2=poolejo01&p2yrfrom=2022&p2yrto=2022

In this comparison, Poole looks substantially superior to Beal.

Conclusion? This is kind of a waste of time! We can't predict Poole's performance; we'll have to wait & see what he does. Moreover, to what end would we compare him with Bradley Beal? Why is that useful? I can't see why it would be....

LOL you cherry picking a season where they were remotely close statistically doesn't change the fact that Poole is nowhere as good as Beal.

[doclinkin]

LOL you cherry picking a season where they were remotely close statistically doesn't change the fact that Poole is nowhere as good as Beal.

Based on speed of development I'd say Poole has a better trajectory. The place where Beal has an edge is that he is 100% less likely to get punched in the mug for trashtalking.

Though maybe being an arrogant punk is what motivates Poole. It certainly worked for another Jordan. Maybe if Beal were trying to be a hyper competitive player who wanted to be alpha dog we might have advanced further year after year.

[payitforward]

Conclusion? This is kind of a waste of time! We can't predict Poole's performance; we'll have to wait & see what he does. Moreover, to what end would we compare him with Bradley Beal? Why is that useful? I can't see why it would be....

Yup…no more useful than comparing Kuz with Cam Johnson. But we still do it. It’s what happens on message boards like this one.

On the other hand, maybe it does make sense to compare Beal and Poole since one is a former Zard and the other is the guy replacing him in the lineup.

... hmmm... kinda hard for me to disagree, huh?

[payitforward]

Here you go:

https://stathead.com/basketball/versus-finder.cgi?request=1&seasons_type=perchoice&player_id1=bealbr01&p1yrfrom=2016&p1yrto=2016&player_id2=poolejo01&p2yrfrom=2022&p2yrto=2022

In this comparison, Poole looks substantially superior to Beal.

Conclusion? This is kind of a waste of time! We can't predict Poole's performance; we'll have to wait & see what he does. Moreover, to what end would we compare him with Bradley Beal? Why is that useful? I can't see why it would be....

LOL you cherry picking a season where they were remotely close statistically doesn't change the fact that Poole is nowhere as good as Beal.

I didn't mean to do that. Nor to claim that Jordan Poole is "better than" Bradley Beal. For starters, Brad's 5th year -- the same season Jordan's going into -- was 2016, the year he broke out. We have no idea whether Jordan will do anything remotely like that.

& that was my main point. We don't know how good Poole is going to be. We're going to have to wait & watch & find out.

[Silvie Lysandra]

https://stathead.com/tiny/q3efm

This is i feel the relevant comparison.

If you look deeper into the advanced stats, Poole is a more efficient scorer, on similar usage, with similar BPM. Beal has an edge as a playmaker, but keep in mind this is a 22 year old version of Poole here compared to a Beal that is presumably in his prime.

I reiterate that there is a very, real chance Jordan Poole is an *upgrade*. Especially accounting for health. There's a very good chance that 2016-2021 Bradley Beal is gone and never coming back.

I'm curious about defense though - was Poole just bad on D last year? Or has it been always been a problem?

[NatP4]

Poole was a really good defender in college, and it seemed like he was really solid on that end in the championship season.

Last year, he was absolutely horrible on that end. Have little to no effort. He was a massive net negative in the playoffs. Hard to watch.

[doclinkin]

Poole was a really good defender in college, and it seemed like he was really solid on that end in the championship season.

I wasn't watching him then, but scouting reports from then all say whatever tools he may have he was plagued by inattentiveness on defense. That said watching his highlights from Michigan made me grin and think this kid is going to be damn fun to watch. Plays with a joy we haven't seen on court since the Hibachi era. Ha, with similar defensive focus...

Watch on YouTube

[Silvie Lysandra]

Poole was a really good defender in college, and it seemed like he was really solid on that end in the championship season.

I wasn't watching him then, but scouting reports from then all say whatever tools he may have he was plagued by inattentiveness on defense. That said watching his highlights from Michigan made me grin and think this kid is going to be damn fun to watch. Plays with a joy we haven't seen on court since the Hibachi era. Ha, with similar defensive focus...

Watch on YouTube

Wouldn't shock me if Poole (IANAD), like JaVale, has some level of ADHD. For that matter, I'm close to 100% sure Arenas has it too. For the record, I'm diagnosed with ADHD myself.

As an aside: ADHD is almost certainly more prevalent in the NBA than anyone thinks, actually - you need a certain level of *hyperfocus* to succeed at this game, which ADHD can actually help with (while ADHD is rightly associated with inattentiveness, it can also dovetail with *extreme* hyperfixation, to the point of it being unhealthy - see MJ and Kobe as an example. But wait, Kobe and MJ were elite defenders who rarely made lapses! Yep - it manifests differently depending on person. JaVale wasn't hyperfixated on basketball, he was just having fun out there. Poole seems closer to the "hyperfixated" model based on reports about his work ethic, but its weird because it didn't show up for him defensively.

In addition, people with ADHD can suffer heavily from something called rejection sensitivity, which causes perceived rejection and lack of support to hit REALLY hard emotionally, to the point of severe depression. If Poole *did* have ADHD, and *was* prone to rejection sensitivity I wonder what might have happened last season to cause him to feel rejected and unsupported? Idk, being punched in the face by a teammate, then being thrown under the bus by your organization?

[9 and 20]

I've been watching Poole videos recently too and I'm excited to watch him play. All in all, even if this is it for the offseason, I can't really complain. Got rid of Tommy, dumped the Bealbatross, brought in some high upside young guys. Right said Fred and Bob's your uncle - not bad, Terd.

[doclinkin]

Thinking about the Beal vs Poole comparison. Not to downgrade one player or the other, but in evaluating the core of the deal we made (absent other players or young prospects, and regardless of cap value). Yes, we traded older for young. We traded a good citizen for one with question marks. But regarding talent level and on-court effect, did we get a fair deal?

I was looking at various stats in the first 4 years of their career. Comparing them as lead scoring guards on their teams. In that stretch of time Beal had 17 games of 30 or more points, Poole had 24. Beal started the majority of his games (in his first 2 years he started more games than Poole has over his 4 year career). Beal shared the court with John Wall, a pass first point guard noted for setting up outside shooters. Poole played as a back-up to 2 HOF guards, battling to earn his minutes, though given his relative durability, he played about the same amount of minutes in his career as the oft injured Beal did in the same time span. Beal of course was marked by the first team defenses, while likely Poole faced back-ups or players who were gassed from chasing Curry. Though Poole's production as a starter is equivalent to his efficiency off the bench.

Early on Beal was known for his pull-up 2 pt shot, and mid-range game, averaging less than 2 made 3's per game. His first few years were under the Randy Wittman offense (developed under Flip Saunders, which prized working for long two point shots, since that is what defenses were willing to give up).

WIth few ball-handling duties, Beal's game was primarily running off ball through screens. I recall stats from the early video tracking systems that said Beal ran like 2 miles a game, almost a full mile more than other players. Something like that. He did not have advanced ball-handling skills, but if he found himself defended he could get himself free within 2 dribbles on a variety of step-back, pull-up, and side hop moves. It wasn't until Wall went down and Beal was required to run point at times that he began to develop somewhat more advanced ball-handling skills. Eventually he learned to attack defenders and split double teams to get himself free, given that the Point Guard play behind John Wall was notoriously terrible. By his 6th year Beal was trusted to carry the offense as a lead guard with the ball in his hands. Generally in his first 4 years If he racked assists it was in a workmanlike low-mistake way. Functional if not creative. Solid. Swing the ball to the open man if your attack is cut off. That sort of thing.

Poole by contrast came into the league with a will to attack off the dribble. By year 3 he showed an ability to set up assists with the threat of his drive. This past year his aggressive play style at times proved reckless. While all attackers in the W's system have to be able to attack off of motion, by his 3rd year Poole showcased a dribble drive arsenal of creative strikes. Due to this aggression, defenses mark him tightly with the expectation that he is looking to blow past them on an attack to the cup. It means he does expose the ball to turnovers. He will draw multiple defenders, attack into traffic then back out of it. It also means he will find teammates wide open when he can bait opponents into overcommitting to defend the dribble. He does work well off of picks and screens. But the creativity of his ball-handling attack can also be seen in his set-up game.

Anyway. The point being, while of course you lose production in swapping out a reliable veteran for a young prospect. Still, on a talent for talent basis comparing these two players you can see the potential for similar production. I say the cockeyed optimist fan can make the case for even higher upside in Poole, with a jumpstart in his dribble-drive game, and a knack for setting up teammates off off the bounce.

When we first made the trade, the biggest sigh of relief was based on the cap space, believing that overall talent wise we likely lost a bit in the deal. I knew Poole as the helter skelter wildcard who probably was playing higher than his talent level, elevated by proximity to the best shooters in the game. I knew he played out of his mind in the Finals run, startling even his teammates with his production, and figured there was a chance this was a flash in his career.

It was later that you heard about his work ethic. Grinding in the gym. Honestly more and more he reminds me of the last hyperactive gym rat we pulled away from Golden State. Watching clips and highlights he truly reminds me of Hibachi era Gilbert. More than any other player I have seen in the years since. Not saying he's ever going to hang 60 on a team, just saying this kid clearly plays for the love of the spotlight and the adrenaline of the moment.

Watch on YouTube

;ab_channel=AndreilinhoHoops

Watch on YouTube

[doclinkin]

Read on Twitter

[doclinkin]

No new content I can find really, except things like this:

Watch on YouTube

;ab_channel=NBASwish

Funny he cites 43% FG and 33.3% 3FG as proof of solid offense. Hopefully he shoots better than that when he's not gunning to be relevant next to the HOFers and has a solid starting spot.

[nate33]

The hard part about projecting Poole's performance is that Golden State runs a read/react system rather than a pick-and-roll system like most everyone else.

I tried looking up Poole's numbers in the pick-and-roll, and they're not all that great. Here is a list of pick and roll effectiveness ranked by plays run per game. The most relevant metric is Score Frequency percentage which is the 2nd column from the right. Poole doesn't look that great, scoring with a frequency of 39.8%. It's one of the lower rankings among these primary handlers.

To be fair, Golden State doesn't really have ideal pick-and-roll bigs. Neither Draymond nor Looney are great finishers.

[doclinkin]

The hard part about projecting Poole's performance is that Golden State runs a read/react system rather than a pick-and-roll system like most everyone else.

I tried looking up Poole's numbers in the pick-and-roll, and they're not all that great.

I care less about Poole's numbers in the pick-and-roll and more in his ability to play off the ball. In catch and shoot attempts he shot 38% from 3, better than Damian Lillard in this metric. In pick-and-roll I want the ball in the hands of Tyus Jones, while Poole is running past screens on the other side. If Poole has the ball, he should be shooting or driving. Simplified. He said he was going to replace Klay, I say go ahead, show them. Make them regret it. Hit the big shots when they matter most.

JP will get touches with the ball, he will pass if cut off while driving, but I don't want him as the primary decision maker on the team. That's where he fell short on the W's. He tried to do too much and carry it all. That's not his best skillset. He's on the team to get buckets and bring chaos to defenses. On this team his role should basically be the Agent Zero role: catch the ball, hit the shot, make them foul to stop you.

[Frichuela]

LTFG!!!!

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=GWeuz7j_sc5cBYZzdD92Tw

[doclinkin]

Klay is just so chill. Really the best interview in the league. So damn jealous of the fans of that team, cheering for good dudes, good teamwork, winning play. But yeah, worth a watch:

Watch on YouTube

Poole conversation at :40 also :44

[doclinkin]

JP got a new Nike deal:

https://www.basketballnetwork.net/off-the-court/jordan-poole-on-nike-gt-cut-2-shoes

A shoe for "Space Makers"
The Nike G.T. Cut was first launched in 2021 and marketed as a basketball shoe for “space makers” or players who create separation to impact the game. According to an article from Nike’s website, a conversation between Nike Basketball Product Manager Nicole Chow, Nike Basketball Bryant Klug, and WNBA star Sabina Ionescu led to the creation of the shoe.

"The new generation of basketball is so fast. Players have to stretch into multiple positions because the game is more spread out," Nicole said. "We realized our focus needed to change to allow us to help athletes to get where they need to go faster because every split-second matters".

Although the shoe was initially intended for Ionescu, Nike reached out to Sacramento Kings superstar guard De’Aaron Fox to test the shoe. Soon NBA players like Jrue Holiday, Cade Cunningham, Tyrese Maxey, and Anfernee Simons began wearing the shoe.

Last year, the G.T. Cut 2 was released and Poole was among those who wore it. While he also donned the Kobe 6 and Kobe XI last season, his new Nike deal will likely see him among the primary endorsers of the G.T. Cut 2.

Read on Twitter

Nike is betting on Poole shining in the solo spotlight he gets with the Wizards. I don;t know that they give him as good a deal if he was still with the Warriors, even as high profile as they are. Not based on last year anyway. Nike gambles on Poole's upside as really the only actual star on this team (no matter what Kuz thinks). As Klay said between him and Kuz "(the Wizards) are going to get the swaggiest buckets". The bet is the Zards will be fun to watch no matter how much they lose.

I'm here for it. High profile and advertising deals lead to more national games, wider exposure. A better known name leads to better calls by the referees. They don't like to blow the whistle as readily on the players that draw ticket sales. GM Mike Dunleavy promoted the idea that Poole will have a bigger role and room to grow on the Wizards. He sold it to him as a way to soften the blow, but I do think it's true.

• As Dunleavy said, he was part of the group that decided to draft Poole in 2019 and he remained a supporter through Poole’s ups and downs. And in his first move as GM, Dunleavy traded Poole to the Wizards.

“As your first day on the job, you don’t love calling a guy and telling him he’d been traded,” Dunleavy said. “I told him, ‘I think this is a really great opportunity for you.’ With our backcourt set with Steph and Klay, I think Jordan, at his age (24), what he can do with the basketball on the offensive end, I think he needs a little bit of room just to run free and play. And I don’t know that we could’ve completely provided that for him over the next few years.

“So talking with Jordan about it, I think there was some sense of surprise on his end. But at the same time, I think once things settled in, I think he realizes it’s a great opportunity for him. That makes me feel better, trading him to a place where I think he has that, as opposed to someplace maybe where a guy wouldn’t want to go … Jordan’s a smart kid, I think he gets it. I think bright things are ahead for him.”

https://theathletic.com/4745045/2023/08/04/mike-dunleavy-jr-warriors-gm-jordan-poole/

[doclinkin]

But based on history, after the punch, the team had to stick with Draymond when it came down to money issues. For as long as that championship core plays well, the Warriors will stick with them. Probably why Dray got so pissed when Poole was messing with him about the topic. Dray is a smart man, he knew that with Poole earning top dollar, the money might not be there to pay them both. So when Poole was giving him the business about it, he was poking him where he was vulnerable: the wallet.

So what were Dunleavy’s goals this offseason? To put together a more tied-together roster after the tensions of last season, starting with Draymond punching Poole in training camp. To add some more players who can complement Curry, Draymond and Klay Thompson. And to chop down some of the long-term payroll heading into next season. In some subtle ways and maybe some very non-subtle ways, the Warriors should be different in 2023-24 than they were at the end of last season.

“I think the biggest difference hopefully will be some connectivity — a little more connectivity,” Dunleavy said. “Steve’s talked about it. Last year’s team just didn’t get off to the right start in many ways, record-wise and all the other stuff that went on. And it just like never got off the ground. I think this is a team that’s maybe put together. We’ll have to jell some for sure. … But I think there’s just a renewed sense of optimism and energy. Some of that’s just with a page turned to the next season and some of that I think is with some roster adjustments.”

Was there a thought that Poole and Draymond couldn’t be both on the team anymore?

“I can’t say that’s not an argument,” Dunleavy said. “Can make a good point about that. I think the biggest thing really is just financially we’re in a position where we had to make some decisions. I think we were able to make a decision where we could free some of that while also still being highly competitive and having a chance to win a championship. It just ended up having to be a decision we had to make and so be it.

“At the same time, we needed to get Draymond back, what he brings to this team and what he has meant for the last 10 years. That’s going to keep going. That matters. So we prioritized that. And from there, we knew … another contract probably needed to be moved. And Jordan ended up being that one.

Finally, this was Dunleavy’s answer when I asked if the team is more committed than ever to riding out the Curry/Klay/Draymond era for as long as it can go: “We go as they go, and they’re still going at a pretty high level. Steph had an incredible year, think he’s comfortably in the conversation as one of the top five players in the league, still, at 35 years old. I thought Klay had some moments last year where he played maybe as well as he’s ever played, you talk about January and February. Once he got going, he was really good. Draymond is still an elite defender. In my mind, he’s probably the best player-defender in the league, especially in the playoffs. On a nightly basis, he’s a top-five guy defensively and does so much for us offensively.

“Those guys are the core of our team. They can still really do it and until that changes, we’ve gotta get behind them, build behind them and keep going for it.”

I expect if Poole had torn a hole in the league and continued his trajectory from the year before the team would have shipped Dray instead. But no matter that he is Curry and Klay's 'little bro' nobody on the team jumped in and blasted Draymond for his actions. That's not Klay's style, and Stef knows how much Draymond means to team success. But from Poole's perspective, there had to be a strong component that the team quit on him so his heart wasn't really in it last year.