The (way too early) 2024 Draft thread. Woo! Tanking!

[NatP4]

Yeah, I think Castle is the upside play. It’s impossible not to like him. Character+potential. Excited to watch UConn in the next 3 rounds.

Watch on YouTube

[pancakes3]

This article about Castle mirrors what I’ve been saying about his maturity and unselfishness. Talks a lot about his outstanding D, which would fit in real nice next to Bilal. I like the part about the impact of his parents. (Link to the full article is at the bottom.)

STEPHON CASTLE, UCONN'S 'ANTI-ENTITLED' FRESHMAN, STARS ON BOTH ENDS OF THE COURT
By John Fanta

...

https://amp.foxsports.com/stories/college-basketball/stephon-castle-uconns-anti-entitled-freshman-stars-on-both-ends-of-the-court

I saw an IG reel from an NBA exec, I forget which one, who was asked how he evaluates players and he said it's eyes, ears, and stats.

You need to pass the eye test, and they've got scouts in the field and guys in the office watching tape to build a report on the guy.

You've gotta pass the analytics - the armchair GM'ing that we engage in here, as well as the tape guys creating shot charts, tendencies, etc. for the analytics guys to comb over.

And you've gotta pass the ear test - this is interviews with the players, coaches, family, teammates, TMZ...

Castle's probably grading out with top marks on everything except for his glaring inability to shoot the 3. Sure, you can teach a guy to shoot, but that's the assessment. Love that he has post moves, love that he attacks the rim, loves that he moves incredibly well off the ball. I think there's definitely a way to use him, and he's going to be a good NBA player but he's not that top dog.

Not only do I think there's a way to use him, I like his game, and I think he'd fit in really well with the young core going forward. Deni, Bilal, Kispert, Castle, Kuzma is a nightmare positionless 5 lineup that can switch everything, score however you want it at all 5 positions, and run you out of the gym. If those 5 can gel and form a core, and because none of them are superstars, you don't have to supermax any of them, I really love the idea of an egalitarian team, like the '14 Spurs playing the beautiful game.

[penbeast0]

This article about Castle mirrors what I’ve been saying about his maturity and unselfishness. Talks a lot about his outstanding D, which would fit in real nice next to Bilal. I like the part about the impact of his parents. (Link to the full article is at the bottom.)

STEPHON CASTLE, UCONN'S 'ANTI-ENTITLED' FRESHMAN, STARS ON BOTH ENDS OF THE COURT
By John Fanta

...

https://amp.foxsports.com/stories/college-basketball/stephon-castle-uconns-anti-entitled-freshman-stars-on-both-ends-of-the-court

I saw an IG reel from an NBA exec, I forget which one, who was asked how he evaluates players and he said it's eyes, ears, and stats.

You need to pass the eye test, and they've got scouts in the field and guys in the office watching tape to build a report on the guy.

You've gotta pass the analytics - the armchair GM'ing that we engage in here, as well as the tape guys creating shot charts, tendencies, etc. for the analytics guys to comb over.

And you've gotta pass the ear test - this is interviews with the players, coaches, family, teammates, TMZ...

Castle's probably grading out with top marks on everything except for his glaring inability to shoot the 3. Sure, you can teach a guy to shoot, but that's the assessment. Love that he has post moves, love that he attacks the rim, loves that he moves incredibly well off the ball. I think there's definitely a way to use him, and he's going to be a good NBA player but he's not that top dog.

Not only do I think there's a way to use him, I like his game, and I think he'd fit in really well with the young core going forward. Deni, Bilal, Kispert, Castle, Kuzma is a nightmare positionless 5 lineup that can switch everything, score however you want it at all 5 positions, and run you out of the gym. If those 5 can gel and form a core, and because none of them are superstars, you don't have to supermax any of them, I really love the idea of an egalitarian team, like the '14 Spurs playing the beautiful game.

We tried the Kuzma at center thing, it was a nightmare defensively. Now we have castoffs at center but ones who at least have size and try to play like centers and we are winning games.

[payitforward]

I love this whole discussion, which is really solid on everyone's part. As far special pleading goes, arguing based on confirmation bias... sure! We all do that.

After all, there's nothing riding on a post anyone contributes here, so it's natural to defend & extend whatever point you were making in a previous post. Add to that the fact that we don't even know what pick we'll have, not to mention the irreducible unknowability of any prospect's future, & it should be obvious that there isn't all that much "reality" underlying the fact that one of us might prefer one guy over another.

That isn't a criticism of anyone or anything, btw. The points being made are, as I wrote above, "solid." We just don't really know how their vectors intersect the reality that's gonna come both in draft position & future development -- not to mention all the rest of the possibilities that may emerge from one or another draft strategy.

All that said, I really liked reading about Steph Castle -- reading facts that seem sure to play a role in what kind of player he becomes. &... who knows... the top of this draft may produce a bunch of outstanding NBA players. People may well look back in a few years & ask themselves why ever they thought the '24 draft would be weak.

Wouldn't be the first time the "experts" were wrong. & if they are wrong... it won't be the last time either!

[doclinkin]

After all, there's nothing riding on a post anyone contributes here, so it's natural to defend & extend whatever point you were making in a previous post.

Also in a losing year there is little else to feel competitive about.

And little else to write about, basketball wise. It's more fun to watch the college kids and overseas prospects than it is to watch the product on the floor.

So unless I'm resurrecting the Prose or Poetry threads, I'm gonna circle back to the idea that this is a game of giants and the best giant in college ball will still be giant at the next level.

OR the idea that a mystery kid in a french league will have better chemistry on this team than similar size guys like Grady Dick or I dunno, Johnny Furphy this year. Because: international flavor! French connection! They grow their own pros over there. Organic basketball players raised in artisanal hoop gardens. Not the artificial AAU product we got over here.

I dunno. Me I like arguing about it, even more than being right. Most times I can argue the same point the opposite way if I think about it. I'm just trying to argue myself into the belief that we will sooner than later have a damn good team who can win on the court and eliminate the arguments and question marks entirely.

[doclinkin]

Wally Sczerbiak thinks Zach Edey is more mobile than Yao Ming:

Watch on YouTube

[leswizards]

All the projections that I have seen of Zach Edey, have him going in the second round, maybe late first round. To me that is ridiculous. I think he will be the steal of the draft if he goes that late, and I hope the wizards get him if he is available late in the first round or even early 2nd round.

[doclinkin]

Right. If the front office looks for a combination of positional size, BBIQ, and hard work, you won't find a player with more of any of the above. A physical phenomenon who is an overacheiver at his position. He's not gonna get smaller, the basket won't be raised at the next level, and if his track record shows he improves every year at ever skill, seems like that is the exact sort of player who does max out their talent level. Who knows that the max is on a guy who is putting up historic numbers.

Honestly I think someone takes him in the middle of the first round, possibly even late lottery. I expect he will put on a show at the combine and his anthropometrics will be eyeboggling. Plus interviews and background info will have some coaches making loud noise to the front office.

Picture him on a slow-down halfcourt team like the Knicks or the Heat.

NY has back-to-back picks in the 20's, they can pick a prospect and a proven guy. The Penguin would love the option of putting a lid on the basket allowing perimeter defenders to get ferocious in attacking the ballhandler and aggressively fighting through screens.

And Miami. Maybe you think their 15 pick is too high. Except: picture Coach Spo with the option to shift Bam to the 4 spot. Play a huge line against Embiid or Giannis. With Jimmy and Jaquez stuffing any dribble drive attack, under a new defensive rule set that punishes attackers for being too aggressive in foul hunting. Plus Heat culture. Big Maple is a perfect fit. Think he won't get in even better shape? Both stronger and more mobile. Adding an outside shot or passing ability from the top of the key. Show a flaw in his game and he will fix it. He has shown capacity to dial in and improve. No complaints. He will put in the work. It's not like he gets tired at the NCAA level. Picture him with 2 years of added strength when he realizes he needs to muscle up against the Embiids of the league.

[pcbothwel]

Wally Sczerbiak thinks Zach Edey is more mobile than Yao Ming:

Watch on YouTube

Edey is quicker, more physical, and has much better measurements (7'4 with 7'10 wing...while Yao was 7'6 with a 7'5 wing).

In a draft like this, I'm leaning towards the "Lower" ceiling players with high production/IQ.

So thats Topic/Sheppard at 1-3, Edey/Holmes/Carter/Simpson/Murray-Boyles at 26, and Simpson/Hall/Scheierman/Murray-Boyles/Nunez @ 47.

[Rafael122]

Latest Ringer mock draft: Sarr at 2, Kyshawn George with the Clips pick

[dobrojim]

Right. If the front office looks for a combination of positional size, BBIQ, and hard work, you won't find a player with more of any of the above. A physical phenomenon who is an overacheiver at his position. He's not gonna get smaller, the basket won't be raised at the next level, and if his track record shows he improves every year at ever skill, seems like that is the exact sort of player who does max out their talent level. Who knows that the max is on a guy who is putting up historic numbers.

Honestly I think someone takes him in the middle of the first round, possibly even late lottery. I expect he will put on a show at the combine and his anthropometrics will be eyeboggling. Plus interviews and background info will have some coaches making loud noise to the front office.

Picture him on a slow-down halfcourt team like the Knicks or the Heat.

NY has back-to-back picks in the 20's, they can pick a prospect and a proven guy. The Penguin would love the option of putting a lid on the basket allowing perimeter defenders to get ferocious in attacking the ballhandler and aggressively fighting through screens.

And Miami. Maybe you think their 15 pick is too high. Except: picture Coach Spo with the option to shift Bam to the 4 spot. Play a huge line against Embiid or Giannis. With Jimmy and Jaquez stuffing any dribble drive attack, under a new defensive rule set that punishes attackers for being too aggressive in foul hunting. Plus Heat culture. Big Maple is a perfect fit. Think he won't get in even better shape? Both stronger and more mobile. Adding an outside shot or passing ability from the top of the key. Show a flaw in his game and he will fix it. He has shown capacity to dial in and improve. No complaints. He will put in the work. It's not like he gets tired at the NCAA level. Picture him with 2 years of added strength when he realizes he needs to muscle up against the Embiids of the league.

I'm not against the idea of either Edny (probably not with our high lotto) or Clingan, maybe with the high pick.
IDK. Can someone like Edny change the game back to the big man days? Or just tilt the court slightly?

[pancakes3]

So thats Topic/Sheppard at 1-3, Edey/Holmes/Carter/Simpson/Murray-Boyles at 26, and Simpson/Hall/Scheierman/Murray-Boyles/Nunez @ 47.

Murray-Boyles is being mocked at the bottom of the 2nd round, and not even in some mocks, so I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't even declare.

A shame though.

[Jay81]

Latest Ringer mock draft: Sarr at 2, Kyshawn George with the Clips pick

Bleacher report has us taking dilly at 2

[nate33]

So thats Topic/Sheppard at 1-3, Edey/Holmes/Carter/Simpson/Murray-Boyles at 26, and Simpson/Hall/Scheierman/Murray-Boyles/Nunez @ 47.

Murray-Boyles is being mocked at the bottom of the 2nd round, and not even in some mocks, so I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't even declare.

A shame though.

I understand the reticence from the talent scouts.

If you squint, you can see the next Draymond Green. But Green's savant defensive instincts make him a one-of-a-kind. If he is merely a smart defensive player and not a genius like Green, then he might just be Taj Gibson.

It could make sense for Murray-Boyles to go back to school and hone his jumper so that he moves up the draft board. Taj Gibson with a jumper is David West, and that's a pretty good player!

[payitforward]

All the projections that I have seen of Zach Edey, have him going in the second round, maybe late first round. To me that is ridiculous. I think he will be the steal of the draft if he goes that late, and I hope the wizards get him if he is available late in the first round or even early 2nd round.

100% !! Sign me up for him as our late R1 pick right now.

[NatP4]

So thats Topic/Sheppard at 1-3, Edey/Holmes/Carter/Simpson/Murray-Boyles at 26, and Simpson/Hall/Scheierman/Murray-Boyles/Nunez @ 47.

Murray-Boyles is being mocked at the bottom of the 2nd round, and not even in some mocks, so I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't even declare.

A shame though.

I’ve mostly seen him mocked late 1st.

If I’m the Wizards, I make a promise to him with the 25th overall pick, see if that gets him to declare. Could be a sneaky way to get a steal. He’s a bit polarizing as a prospect, and everyone is already behind on their evaluation of him, missed a good chunk of the year with mono. Wasn’t super highly recruited.

Think he ends up a lottery pick or goes back to school ultimately.

[NatP4]

So thats Topic/Sheppard at 1-3, Edey/Holmes/Carter/Simpson/Murray-Boyles at 26, and Simpson/Hall/Scheierman/Murray-Boyles/Nunez @ 47.

Murray-Boyles is being mocked at the bottom of the 2nd round, and not even in some mocks, so I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't even declare.

A shame though.

I understand the reticence from the talent scouts.

If you squint, you can see the next Draymond Green. But Green's savant defensive instincts make him a one-of-a-kind. If he is merely a smart defensive player and not a genius like Green, then he might just be Taj Gibson.

It could make sense for Murray-Boyles to go back to school and hone his jumper so that he moves up the draft board. Taj Gibson with a jumper is David West, and that's a pretty good player!

If he’s on a spectrum from Taj Gibson-David West-Draymond Green, he’s probably one of the 5 best prospects in this draft.

[Hibachi_0]

22 minutes of Nuñez highlights. The way he uses both hands is just enjoyable to watch. Deni and Bilal could learn a thing or two.

Watch on YouTube

[doclinkin]

Right. If the front office looks for a combination of positional size, BBIQ, and hard work, you won't find a player with more of any of the above. A physical phenomenon who is an overacheiver at his position. He's not gonna get smaller, the basket won't be raised at the next level, and if his track record shows he improves every year at ever skill, seems like that is the exact sort of player who does max out their talent level. Who knows that the max is on a guy who is putting up historic numbers.

Honestly I think someone takes him in the middle of the first round, possibly even late lottery. I expect he will put on a show at the combine and his anthropometrics will be eyeboggling. Plus interviews and background info will have some coaches making loud noise to the front office.

Picture him on a slow-down halfcourt team like the Knicks or the Heat.

NY has back-to-back picks in the 20's, they can pick a prospect and a proven guy. The Penguin would love the option of putting a lid on the basket allowing perimeter defenders to get ferocious in attacking the ballhandler and aggressively fighting through screens.

And Miami. Maybe you think their 15 pick is too high. Except: picture Coach Spo with the option to shift Bam to the 4 spot. Play a huge line against Embiid or Giannis. With Jimmy and Jaquez stuffing any dribble drive attack, under a new defensive rule set that punishes attackers for being too aggressive in foul hunting. Plus Heat culture. Big Maple is a perfect fit. Think he won't get in even better shape? Both stronger and more mobile. Adding an outside shot or passing ability from the top of the key. Show a flaw in his game and he will fix it. He has shown capacity to dial in and improve. No complaints. He will put in the work. It's not like he gets tired at the NCAA level. Picture him with 2 years of added strength when he realizes he needs to muscle up against the Embiids of the league.

I'm not against the idea of either Edny (probably not with our high lotto) or Clingan, maybe with the high pick.
IDK. Can someone like Edny change the game back to the big man days? Or just tilt the court slightly?

Well even I wouldn't take Edey top 5.

I think a team could take Clingan in the lotto, especially if UConn wins the whole thing. Playable defensive bigs are currently more valuable than one that primarily brings unstoppable low-post offense and drop coverage defense. A mobile defensive stopper who can show and recover in the P&R and shut down the paint both, that should be enough to boost a guy into the top dozen or so.

Would I take Clingan top 5-6? I wouldn't hate it. He has shown enough passing this year that he might be able to play from that keystone spot, passing over the defense and being a force in the roll game. Personally I don't like his touch around the basket, some of his rebounding totals are padded on offense by the fact that he will miss some bunnies to catch and try again. But his sub 60% FT shooting doesn't suggest he will add a jumper to expand his offensive utility, and his hands are not great when he is in motion, so I think you end up with a different sort of one-way player. Not my favorite move.

[pancakes3]

If Edey is an actual 60% fg%, 65% TS% scorer who can give you 20-25ppg in the low post, drawing fouls and grabbing boards, I think it'd be a good way for a team to zig when everyone else is zagging. You can still play with space with a guy working in the low post, it doesn't have to be 5 out.

It's a big if though.