Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread - Part II

[nate33]

Continued from here

[nate33]

I think one of the problems is that Wes (perhaps in conjunction with Winger and Dawkins) has chosen to play an up-tempo pace that may not be appropriate for the current personnel. I think he has decided that up tempo makes sense for the young guys on the roster that matter (Bilal, Avdija, Gafford, Davis) so they're not worried about an up-tempo pace being ideal for guys like Gallo, Muscala, Poole and Jones.

I'm not saying this is the wrong strategy in the long term. But it's going to result in more losses in the short term.

[penbeast0]

I think one of the problems is that Wes (perhaps in conjunction with Winger and Dawkins) has chosen to play an up-tempo pace that may not be appropriate for the current personnel. I think he has decided that up tempo makes sense for the young guys on the roster that matter (Bilal, Avdija, Gafford, Davis) so they're not worried about an up-tempo pace being ideal for guys like Gallo, Muscala, Poole and Jones.

I'm not saying this is the wrong strategy in the long term. But it's going to result in more losses in the short term.

SInce we have no business prioritizing short term wins over long term player development, then the Wiz are apparently doing it right in that sense.

I have more of an issue with his trying to shoehorn the current team into a big man playmaker offense instead of having Tyus Jones be the primary offensive agent. I know that Kuzma loves being the playmaker but Jones is considerably better at it. Wes doesn't have Jokic anymore.

[TGW]

Something I would try...start Poole at the point with Coulibaly at the two. It would accomplish two goals: 1) force him to initiate the offense and move the ball 2) improves the starting lineup defensively and on the boards. Jones to me is on borrowed time, so it makes little sense to give him a ton of minutes. As a matter of fact, they should be looking to move him as soon as possible for the best possible pick.

Since they're stuck with Poole for the forseeable future, they might as well think of ways to get him to play within a system.

[Kanyewest]

Something I would try...start Poole at the point with Coulibaly at the two. It would accomplish two goals: 1) force him to initiate the offense and move the ball 2) improves the starting lineup defensively and on the boards. Jones to me is on borrowed time, so it makes little sense to give him a ton of minutes. As a matter of fact, they should be looking to move him as soon as possible for the best possible pick.

Since they're stuck with Poole for the forseeable future, they might as well think of ways to get him to play within a system.

Wizards were doing that in the Bucks game for most of the 4th quarter. some guy was yelling for Unseld to be fired for putting Jones back in the 3 minute mark.

[DCZards]

I’m not a fan of having Poole at PG. He’s not very good at involving teammates or getting them open shots.

Poole had zero TOs against the Bucks….but then returned to norm against the Hornets where he had some critical TOs late in the game when he was at PG and Jones was on the bench.

[TGW]

I’m not a fan of having Poole at PG. He’s not very good at involving teammates or getting them open shots.

Poole had zero TOs against the Bucks….but then returned to norm against the Hornets where he had some critical TOs late in the game when he was at PG and Jones was on the bench.

We know Poole is not a point guard. He is a shotjacking bum. But maybe....just maybe, changing his role might force him to break his sloppy ways with the basketball.

Obviously a move like this would be a massive learning curve for him. He'd have to consciously take care of the ball and value possessions, two things he doesn't do at all. We know who Jones is at this point, and since they aren't winning with Jones and he'll likely be gone by the deadline, might as well try and develop the guy their stuck with for the forseeable future versus giving Jones minutes.

[DCZards]

I’m not a fan of having Poole at PG. He’s not very good at involving teammates or getting them open shots.

Poole had zero TOs against the Bucks….but then returned to norm against the Hornets where he had some critical TOs late in the game when he was at PG and Jones was on the bench.

We know Poole is not a point guard. He is a shotjacking bum. But maybe....just maybe, changing his role might force him to break his sloppy ways with the basketball.

Obviously a move like this would be a massive learning curve for him. He'd have to consciously take care of the ball and value possessions, two things he doesn't do at all. We know who Jones is at this point, and since they aren't winning with Jones and he'll likely be gone by the deadline, might as well try and develop the guy their stuck with for the forseeable future versus giving Jones minutes.

I’ve liked Jones from the outset and still believe in him. Over the last five games, he’s averaged 13 pts on almost 60% from the field…with 25 assists and ONE turnover.

Yes, Tyus is not a great defender and I’d like to see him get more steals but those are very good offensive #s. He’s not the reason the Zards aren’t winning.

I’m not so sure he’s gone by the deadline.

[nate33]

I’m not a fan of having Poole at PG. He’s not very good at involving teammates or getting them open shots.

Poole had zero TOs against the Bucks….but then returned to norm against the Hornets where he had some critical TOs late in the game when he was at PG and Jones was on the bench.

I think the argument here is to play Poole as the nominal PG, but the offense would actually run through Deni and Kuzma since that seems to be what we are doing anyway.

If we're not going to run the offense through Tyus, better to get him out of there and get more size, rebounding and defense on the floor.

[DCZards]

I’m not a fan of having Poole at PG. He’s not very good at involving teammates or getting them open shots.

Poole had zero TOs against the Bucks….but then returned to norm against the Hornets where he had some critical TOs late in the game when he was at PG and Jones was on the bench.

I think the argument here is to play Poole as the nominal PG, but the offense would actually run through Deni and Kuzma since that seems to be what we are doing anyway.

If we're not going to run the offense through Tyus, better to get him out of there and get more size, rebounding and defense on the floor.

I question the wisdom of regularly running the offense through Kuz or Deni…especially down the stretch of close games where protecting the ball and getting good shots are essential. (BTW, I think Kuz and Deni have been our best players this season. This is not a knock on them.)

Unless your ballhandling/playmaking forward is a stud like Tatum, Luka or Giannis, at crunch time I think you want the ball in the hands of a guard...someone who will secure the ball and make good decisions. Pretty obvious that the Zards have struggled at that late in games.

I’d like to see Jones be given the opportunity to truly play like a PG and run the offense…which he did very well in Memphis when given the opportunity.

[penbeast0]

Something I would try...start Poole at the point with Coulibaly at the two. It would accomplish two goals: 1) force him to initiate the offense and move the ball 2) improves the starting lineup defensively and on the boards. Jones to me is on borrowed time, so it makes little sense to give him a ton of minutes. As a matter of fact, they should be looking to move him as soon as possible for the best possible pick.

Since they're stuck with Poole for the forseeable future, they might as well think of ways to get him to play within a system.

My problem with this is that a lineup with Poole and Kuzma in it won't be looking to get Bilal enough shots to develop his offensive game. I would most prefer to move Poole to 6th man and start Tyus as long as we plan to resign Tyus.

If we are not going to resign Tyus or move him, then sure, put him back at 6th man. The only reason he resigns here is because Wes makes it clear to him that this is his team to run as the starting PG. Poole may sulk but he's signed long term and he can't play that much worse.

[TGW]

Something I would try...start Poole at the point with Coulibaly at the two. It would accomplish two goals: 1) force him to initiate the offense and move the ball 2) improves the starting lineup defensively and on the boards. Jones to me is on borrowed time, so it makes little sense to give him a ton of minutes. As a matter of fact, they should be looking to move him as soon as possible for the best possible pick.

Since they're stuck with Poole for the forseeable future, they might as well think of ways to get him to play within a system.

My problem with this is that a lineup with Poole and Kuzma in it won't be looking to get Bilal enough shots to develop his offensive game. I would most prefer to move Poole to 6th man and start Tyus as long as we plan to resign Tyus.

If we are not going to resign Tyus or move him, then sure, put him back at 6th man. The only reason he resigns here is because Wes makes it clear to him that this is his team to run as the starting PG. Poole may sulk but he's signed long term and he can't play that much worse.

In a perfect world, where Tyus was signed longterm and Poole wasn't, I'd flat out cut Poole and continue to start Tyus, but unfortunately that's not the case. Right now, Tyus is not a part of the FO's long-term plan...I don't see Tyus resigning under any circumstances as he's not going to waste his prime years being a part of a losing organization.

They're stuck with Poole, so he has to be the priority. Try anything possible to get him to play better.

[tontoz]

Poole is definitely a dilemma. Based on merit he should be getting DNPs but in order to get rid of him he needs to build up his value which he can't do sitting in the bench.

He did play far better two years ago but then he signed a big deal and it certainly looks like it went to his head.

[nate33]

I’m not a fan of having Poole at PG. He’s not very good at involving teammates or getting them open shots.

Poole had zero TOs against the Bucks….but then returned to norm against the Hornets where he had some critical TOs late in the game when he was at PG and Jones was on the bench.

I think the argument here is to play Poole as the nominal PG, but the offense would actually run through Deni and Kuzma since that seems to be what we are doing anyway.

If we're not going to run the offense through Tyus, better to get him out of there and get more size, rebounding and defense on the floor.

I question the wisdom of regularly running the offense through Kuz or Deni…especially down the stretch of close games where protecting the ball and getting good shots are essential. (BTW, I think Kuz and Deni have been our best players this season. This is not a knock on them.)

Unless your ballhandling/playmaking forward is a stud like Tatum, Luka or Giannis, at crunch time I think you want the ball in the hands of a guard...someone who will secure the ball and make good decisions. Pretty obvious that the Zards have struggled at that late in games.

I’d like to see Jones be given the opportunity to truly play like a PG and run the offense…which he did very well in Memphis when given the opportunity.

I'm okay with this. I'm not saying they absolutely should bench Tyus in crunch time. I'm just saying that if they don't intend to run the crunch time offense through him, then they should bench him in favor of a bigger, better defender.

[penbeast0]

In a perfect world, where Tyus was signed longterm and Poole wasn't, I'd flat out cut Poole and continue to start Tyus, but unfortunately that's not the case. Right now, Tyus is not a part of the FO's long-term plan...I don't see Tyus resigning under any circumstances as he's not going to waste his prime years being a part of a losing organization.

They're stuck with Poole, so he has to be the priority. Try anything possible to get him to play better.

With the amount of high scoring points out there, I don't think there are any good teams that are going to turn the reins over to Tyus. If he wants a winning organization, he would need to go back to the bench role he had behind Ja. If we make it clear he's our PG of the future (barring an opportunity to draft a star), I think he'd resign with us though not at a discount. Players want to win, but even more, they want to play.

[nate33]

In a perfect world, where Tyus was signed longterm and Poole wasn't, I'd flat out cut Poole and continue to start Tyus, but unfortunately that's not the case. Right now, Tyus is not a part of the FO's long-term plan...I don't see Tyus resigning under any circumstances as he's not going to waste his prime years being a part of a losing organization.

They're stuck with Poole, so he has to be the priority. Try anything possible to get him to play better.

With the amount of high scoring points out there, I don't think there are any good teams that are going to turn the reins over to Tyus. If he wants a winning organization, he would need to go back to the bench role he had behind Ja. If we make it clear he's our PG of the future (barring an opportunity to draft a star), I think he'd resign with us though not at a discount. Players want to win, but even more, they want to play.

I don't want him as the PG of our future. Diminutive PG's have become unplayable in today's switchable defensive schemes. You can kinda make it work if the guy is a fire hydrant like Kyle Lowry, Chris Paul, or VanVleet, but not if he so small that he'll get pushed under the rim in a switch. The only tiny PG's who still start in this league are the guys who are so awesome offensively, that teams are willing to live with the defensive ramifications, guys like Trae Young, Tyrese Maxey, Jalen Brunson, Damian Lillard and Kyrie Irving.

The only example I can think of of a tiny, not-offensively-dominant starting PG is Mike Conley. And he is fortunate enough to play alongside the best defensive center in the league (Gobert) and the best pair of defensive wings in the league (McDaniels and Edwards).

[dckingsfan]

In a perfect world, where Tyus was signed longterm and Poole wasn't, I'd flat out cut Poole and continue to start Tyus, but unfortunately that's not the case. Right now, Tyus is not a part of the FO's long-term plan...I don't see Tyus resigning under any circumstances as he's not going to waste his prime years being a part of a losing organization.

They're stuck with Poole, so he has to be the priority. Try anything possible to get him to play better.

With the amount of high scoring points out there, I don't think there are any good teams that are going to turn the reins over to Tyus. If he wants a winning organization, he would need to go back to the bench role he had behind Ja. If we make it clear he's our PG of the future (barring an opportunity to draft a star), I think he'd resign with us though not at a discount. Players want to win, but even more, they want to play.

I don't want him as the PG of our future. Diminutive PG's have become unplayable in today's switchable defensive schemes. You can kinda make it work if the guy is a fire hydrant like Kyle Lowry, Chris Paul, or VanVleet, but not if he so small that he'll get pushed under the rim in a switch. The only tiny PG's who still start in this league are the guys who are so awesome offensively, that teams are willing to live with the defensive ramifications, guys like Trae Young, Tyrese Maxey, Jalen Brunson, Damian Lillard and Kyrie Irving.

The only example I can think of of a tiny, not-offensively-dominant starting PG is Mike Conley. And he is fortunate enough to play alongside the best defensive center in the league (Gobert) and the best pair of defensive wings in the league (McDaniels and Edwards).

I am really happy with Tyus as our backup PG though. And Davis got some run now that he is a bit healthier.

[FAH1223]

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[NatP4]

To your point, Nate, Conley was an elite pick and roll defender for years. Paul and Lowry were the same way. Jones is just mediocre on the defensive end. Doesn’t move the needle anywhere. He’s a decent backup PG at best that can return a 2nd round pick or two.

I wanna see more Jared Butler. He can shoot the lights out. High level basketball IQ/feel for the game and competitiveness, good defender, good vision/playmaking. Young enough to be a legit core piece. Some team will get a steal now that his heart condition is under control and manageable.

[nate33]

To your point, Nate, Conley was an elite pick and roll defender for years. Paul and Lowry were the same way. Jones is just mediocre on the defensive end. Doesn’t move the needle anywhere. He’s a decent backup PG at best that can return a 2nd round pick or two.

I wanna see more Jared Butler. He can shoot the lights out. High level basketball IQ/feel for the game and competitiveness, good defender, good vision/playmaking. Young enough to be a legit core piece. Some team will get a steal now that his heart condition is under control and manageable.

I also like that Butler is 2 inches taller and at least 10 pounds heavier than Tyus Jones. That matters.