Official Trade Thread Part XLVI

[nate33]

My latest:

Simple deal:

Wiz trade Shamet(can be waived immediately so that his deal is non-gauranteed)+Davis (expiring unless Miami wants to pick up his option)+26 to Miami for Duncan Robinson (expiring)+15.

Why for Miami?
1). Ducks the tax while moving down 11 spots in this draft.

Why for the Wizards?
1). Move up in the draft while not adding any extra years in future salary commitments.

Robinson would also be tradeable at the deadline for some future 2nds as well.

That's an awful lot of money to move up 11 spots in the draft. Robinson is owed $20M next year and has a $10M buyout the following year. So factoring the unloading of Davis' salary, that's about $24M to move up 11 spots in the worst draft in memory. No thanks. I think that cap flexibility will get us better value in other transactions.

[mhd]

My latest:

Simple deal:

Wiz trade Shamet(can be waived immediately so that his deal is non-gauranteed)+Davis (expiring unless Miami wants to pick up his option)+26 to Miami for Duncan Robinson (expiring)+15.

Why for Miami?
1). Ducks the tax while moving down 11 spots in this draft.

Why for the Wizards?
1). Move up in the draft while not adding any extra years in future salary commitments.

Robinson would also be tradeable at the deadline for some future 2nds as well.

That's an awful lot of money to move up 11 spots in the draft. Robinson is owed $20M next year and has a $10M buyout the following year. So factoring the unloading of Davis' salary, that's about $24M to move up 11 spots in the worst draft in memory. No thanks. I think that cap flexibility will get us better value in other transactions.

Yeah, you are probably right. We are better off using our flexibility to get picks in exchange for helping other teams out of tax. To get a pick in the low 20s probably costs 20+ million (See the Holmes trade from last year between Dallas & Sacremento).

[SUPERBALLMAN]

Read on Twitter

I guess this means don't count on Kuzma being moved anytime soon. I wonder if he got some kind of promise from Winger that he won't be dealt.

[9 and 20]

Pelicans could have used a guy like Jordan Poole, tbh. Any chance of a trade there? We can make it known our rates are very reasonable. We'll take an autographed King Cake Baby photo in return.

[Frichuela]

Read on Twitter

I guess this means don't count on Kuzma being moved anytime soon. I wonder if he got some kind of promise from Winger that he won't be dealt.

I hope not. That would be GM malpractice…

[nate33]

Read on Twitter

I guess this means don't count on Kuzma being moved anytime soon. I wonder if he got some kind of promise from Winger that he won't be dealt.

I hope not. That would be GM malpractice…

It's a little concerning that he keeps talking about stability. I assumed Kuzma understood that the whole point of his descending contract is so that he can be tradeable in the future.

It's probably nothing to worry about. Putting some of his money into a business is probably just an effective tax dodge. It's not like he is going to be running the place.

[SUPERBALLMAN]

“ It's not like he is going to be running the place.”

[The Consiglieri]

I'm alarmed at the fact that they even ran the trade offer from Dallas by him. Unless he had a NTC, I really wouldn't have given a ---- what he thought of it, that's what the $$$ is for, as Don Draper said, I'm not gonna handicap the rebuild for the sake of his feelings or sense of stability. Fans here have been suffering for 44 years, I couldn't give less of a rats --- what he thinks.

[nate33]

I'm alarmed at the fact that they even ran the trade offer from Dallas by him. Unless he had a NTC, I really wouldn't have given a ---- what he thought of it, that's what the $$$ is for, as Don Draper said, I'm not gonna handicap the rebuild for the sake of his feelings or sense of stability. Fans here have been suffering for 44 years, I couldn't give less of a rats --- what he thinks.

I don't take such a negative view of that.

My guess is that if someone offers the Wiz a deal they can't refuse, then they'll trade Kuzma without consulting him. But if they are only offered a barely palatable deal that they're not even sure they like, then it can't hurt to run it past Kuzma. If Kuzma says no, then they can decline the deal while simultaneously showing Kuzma some respect, the kind of respect that generates good will league wide.

[doclinkin]

I'm alarmed at the fact that they even ran the trade offer from Dallas by him. Unless he had a NTC, I really wouldn't have given a ---- what he thought of it, that's what the $$$ is for, as Don Draper said, I'm not gonna handicap the rebuild for the sake of his feelings or sense of stability. Fans here have been suffering for 44 years, I couldn't give less of a rats --- what he thinks.

I don't take such a negative view of that.

My guess is that if someone offers the Wiz a deal they can't refuse, then they'll trade Kuzma without consulting him. But if they are only offered a barely palatable deal that they're not even sure they like, then it can't hurt to run it past Kuzma. If Kuzma says no, then they can decline the deal while simultaneously showing Kuzma some respect, the kind of respect that generates good will league wide.

Which is exactly what Kuz confirmed happened in interviews. Even to the point of them saying to him that if there was a deal that was too good to pass up they'd take it, but were ambivalent about the deal offered. Kuz looked at Dallas and intimated that he didn't think they would be contending any time soon so all things being equal he's happy here. In other words he likes the situation and people here, so if its up to him on any trade he'd prefer to be with a contender. But he understood and respected the front office approaching him like an adult to say they were listening to offers.

The fact that multiple players say they like it here and want to be a part of a rebuild process to me speaks well about our front office and the atmosphere they are putting together.

[gambitx777]

“ It's not like he is going to be running the place.”

Most celebrities who open restaurants do it as an investment and a bit of a posh little ooooo look at me. Unless it's like a bunch of chains. This is probably one of the first categories. An investment, get it moving then sell it or franchise it and sell the rights.

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[Rafael122]

Who says no?

OKC gets: KD
PHX gets: Cason Wallace, Richaun Holmes, Johnny Davis, Ousmane Dieng, '24 Houston pick, future picks
WSH gets: Josh Giddey, Nassir Little

This would be a post lottery trade just to see how the lottery shakes out. Let's not sugar coat this, it's a straight salary dump for Phoenix. This trade would not provide them with any cap relief, but at the very least, they get a high lottery pick and future picks from OKC.

OKC goes for it. Starting 5 would be SGA/Dort/Williams/KD/Holmgren.

Washington may get a couple of seconds out of this, and their starting 5 would be Poole/Giddey/Deni/Kuzma/Bagley

[nate33]

Who says no?

OKC gets: KD
PHX gets: Cason Wallace, Richaun Holmes, Johnny Davis, Ousmane Dieng, '24 Houston pick, future picks
WSH gets: Josh Giddey, Nassir Little

This would be a post lottery trade just to see how the lottery shakes out. Let's not sugar coat this, it's a straight salary dump for Phoenix. This trade would not provide them with any cap relief, but at the very least, they get a high lottery pick and future picks from OKC.

OKC goes for it. Starting 5 would be SGA/Dort/Williams/KD/Holmgren.

Washington may get a couple of seconds out of this, and their starting 5 would be Poole/Giddey/Deni/Kuzma/Bagley

Phoenix says no.

The problem is, those future picks are pretty much all terrible picks now. They're all from playoff teams, mostly good ones. It'll leave them in a situation much like Brooklyn where they have a few late 1sts, but tanking isn't an option because they don't control their own picks. They'll just limp along as a 35-win team with no real hope for improvement.

If Phoenix trades KD, they would trade him for a younger, cheaper player who is good but not quite elite. Something like KD for Ingram and stuff, or KD for Randle and stuff.

[doclinkin]

OKC fans say no as well. They are sour on KD for leaving them to go ring-hunting with the enemy. Bringing back a late-career KD on the downslope of his career would only work if they were guaranteed a ring. And even in that they like the guys they have. Wouldn't want to shift possessions from SGA in favor of a slowed down version of the KD they used to have.

[tacosman]

Read on Twitter

I guess this means don't count on Kuzma being moved anytime soon. I wonder if he got some kind of promise from Winger that he won't be dealt.

Why would the wiz move kuzma? He's not considered a non-winning player(even if he isn't as bad as his detractors say wrt that) and he is on a full to the brim contract(relative to what he does). He isn't going to bring anything of value back at all in terms of good picks or young players, and given that he is a perfect tank co-commander. And you need to reach a salary threshhold anyways...so he may as well be used for that.

The whole idea behind signing Kuzma was:

1) bring in a vet player who could theoretically mentor all the young players the wiz will be bringing in
2) his salary will count towards getting to minimum salary for the team
3) he does the above two things and isn't good enough to contribute to any actual winning as a high usage player(which is obviously important for the wiz now)

Given the three above things and the fact that he wouldn't bring anything back at all(what....a couple seconds and another sorta big contract to match lol?), the wiz should just keep him.

Kuzma was *never* going to be a player who brought anything back at that contract. He made it very clear he was just signing for whoever paid him most and allowed him decent usage. Teams didn't want to pay him 25-30 million a year last year and nothing has or will change since then.

[tacosman]

Pelicans could have used a guy like Jordan Poole, tbh.

Lol....no. No team can use "a guy like Jordan Poole". And certainly not the actual jordan poole.

Jordan poole, like kuzma, is perfect for what the wiz are trying to do here. The wiz are just very very unfortunate that the first year they have gone all in on tanking that the draft happens to be dreadful. In effect it's going to be a wasted year, and you just have to hope if you are a wiz fan that the next couple drafts are much more promising at the top.

Poole is also a *highly* negative value contract. At least right now. Maybe as a true expiring it's different. But to get rid of jordan poole the wiz would have to attach pics to it(since he is a terrible player with a lot of money still due), and obviously the wiz are the last team in the world that needs to be sending picks out.

It's going to be a long process. Made longer unfortunately for the wiz by this 1st tank draft class being so bad. And there is no guarantee several years from now things will be looking up. but it's really the only route going forward.

So Poole(and Kuzma) are ideal for the wiz now.

[tacosman]

In retrospect, I guess we should have traded Jones for a second rounder.

Hide aight is always 2020. You really want to avoid being so bad moral is gone we are almost there but you can't just trade everyone under value the players don't respect that.

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I don't think that's really right. If you're not going to have an asset for '24-'25, or it won't be meaningful. You should probably flip it. One of the reasons I wanted to trade Kuzma in the present, rather than wait longer is what just happened to the Guardians. The Guardians just turned what was a CY Young caliber pitcher, into a deadline asset for trade in '23, but Bieber got hurt right before the deadline, so they couldn't engage in talks (for which they were only half serious), then decided against trading him during the winter meetings in '23-'24, and now saw him just go down after 1 week of the season with Tommy John surgery. A key building block asset for the team was flushed down the toilet for nothing because they waited. That is the worst case scenario of course, but then again so are the wizards, most of the time.

Now add in this key piece: bad team morale, & players respecting the build and the F.O.'s. This can matter. But the question is, why would it matter with us? We aren't competing until '26-'27 at the earliest for much, and how many of the players on the current roster are building blocks (Bilal, Deni) or key assets long term (Tristan?). The answer to that is largely none. What do we care about the team morale or potential attitude issues with regards to players who aren't going to be here in the first place. You can have glue guy vets to try and ensure a bottom line level of professionalism and dedication, but I don't think you should be keeping that, over flipping for assets, when you are #1 bereft of virtually any talent to speak of #2 starting from a point that rebuilds never start from (virtually no assets worth a damn because you had too much pride and stupidity to trade guys like Beal when you should have) and #3 not working with the players that will have any relevance to your long term future anyway (in terms of trade pieces or long term value).

I agree with all this of course, but the problem with trading Kuzma is you aren't going to get anything for him.

So he averaged 22/6/4 on 33/46/77 splits on a dreadful team.

Okay.....so is he viewed any differently now than a year ago? no, of course not. Hell a lot of people thought he would average 25 here his first year status post new contract. The reality is decent teams didn't want to pay him much last year......what's changed? Nothing......

I just don't see the incentive to move Kuzma. He's not an asset. And since he's not a real asset, may as well keep him because:

1) he is a high usage player that doesn't contribute to winning for the wiz(obviously lol), which is exactly what you want
2) Although none of you guys care how 'watchable' the product is, it's best to be very bad these years to ensure as high a pick as likely possible, but yet within that spectrum of bad you just want to be a 'normal bottom of the league bad'. Kuzma is a high volume/usage generally losing player who fits in perfectly with the wizards goals but also ensures that they are at least playing
nba level basketball.(just a bottom of the league team each year and not a bottom of the league in nba history team)

[Pistol King]

Lol....no. No team can use "a guy like Jordan Poole". And certainly not the actual jordan poole.

Jordan poole, like kuzma, is perfect for what the wiz are trying to do here. The wiz are just very very unfortunate that the first year they have gone all in on tanking that the draft happens to be dreadful. In effect it's going to be a wasted year, and you just have to hope if you are a wiz fan that the next couple drafts are much more promising at the top.

Poole is also a *highly* negative value contract. At least right now. Maybe as a true expiring it's different. But to get rid of jordan poole the wiz would have to attach pics to it(since he is a terrible player with a lot of money still due), and obviously the wiz are the last team in the world that needs to be sending picks out.

It's going to be a long process. Made longer unfortunately for the wiz by this 1st tank draft class being so bad. And there is no guarantee several years from now things will be looking up. but it's really the only route going forward.

So Poole(and Kuzma) are ideal for the wiz now.

A few weeks ago I came up with a trade idea of half-retired Ben Simmons for Poole and filler.

How Nets fans would feel about such trade? there is any reasonable pathway for that?

Regarding Kuzma and why the Wizards would move on from him, take into account they have young players to develop (plus two FRPs added) and test how they would perform in larger roles, and Kuzma takes way too much usage (almost 30% this year) and FGAs (18.8 ,same as Giannis) off them, and doing it inefficiently which is not good for the culture they trying to establish. For example, Deni Avdija's numbers, though in a small sample size, with and without Kuzma are massively different. Without Kuzma, players are more involved, players get better opportunities to develop. Kuzma is a type of player that would be much more valuable on a organization with a proven system where he can show his skillset but at the same time accept his role and his limitations. Nobody here holding him accountable and it's not gonna be changed for different reasons.

[payitforward]

In retrospect, I guess we should have traded Jones for a second rounder.

Hindsight is always 2020....

Jones wasn't a Wizard in 2020.
(Move to "Ignore" thread...?)

[doclinkin]

Kuzma was *never* going to be a player who brought anything back at that contract. He made it very clear he was just signing for whoever paid him most and allowed him decent usage. Teams didn't want to pay him 25-30 million a year last year and nothing has or will change since then.

Except for one key thing. His contract. It declines every year, down to $19m his final year.

Too your premise is incorrect that Kuzma will return nothing.

The Wiz were offered a passable deal this year from the Mavs. Essentially the team was offered the deal they did with Gafford, plus reportedly some part of the Grant Williams deal. So: a late 1st this year (Gafford), and possibly a first rounder in 2027 (The Grant Williams deal).

The Wiz have made it clear they expect a package of two firsts. Otherwise they are happy to keep him. For all the reasons you detailed, and the fact that he made it clear he is happy to be here. Good team player, locker room guy, excellent tank commander. A nice highlight reel every now and again. He's a solid player on a good team, rebounds, can play good defense (key in the bubble championship), a willing passer. On a bad team as a high usage shot creator, well, he is not as good as his shot selection suggests he thinks he is.