Official Trade Thread Part XLVI

tontoz · Post #421 » by **tontoz** » Wed Feb 14, 2024 1:49 pm

Kuzma might have other team(s) in mind that he would prefer but they won't be able to make a good offer until the summer.

Post #422 » by **nate33** » Wed Feb 14, 2024 2:13 pm

9 and 20 wrote:
FAH1223 wrote:
Spoiler:

Read on Twitter

We turned down 2 first for Kuz, and we could have kept Gaff? Seems like we lost twice. Prove me wrong, Winger.

The actual Dallas/Charlotte trade was:

Dallas trades:
Grant Williams
Seth Curry
2027 FRP (top 2 protected)

Charlotte trades:
PJ Washington
2 second round picks (I can't figure out which ones)

Don't sleep on those two SRP's coming back to Dallas from Charlotte. If Charlotte continues to suck as usual, and Dallas continues to be a solid playoff team, then the value received by Charlotte is pretty weak. Basically it's PJ + #35ish pick + #35ish pick for Grant Williams and a #23ish pick.

The point is, we don't know the nature of the deal on the table for Kuzma. At best, it was a minimally protected 2027 pick plus the 2024 LAC pick we got for Gafford, plus the contracts of Holmes and Williams. And the offer may have been even worse if Dallas was insisting on getting some SRP's back like they got in the PJ deal. Futhermore, Grant Williams is an a-hole that nobody seems to like, and his contract has 3 more years at $13M per. And Holmes as a 3rd string center being paid $13M next year isn't good either (at least now, he is getting minutes).

Ultimately, I can see why it's a pretty meh offer and I don't mind that we turned it down.

And as I continue to say, the Gafford deal makes sense because he loses his trade value in 2 years when he is no longer on a cheap contract, and we wouldn't have resigned him on his next contract anyway. So it was best to trade him while his value was highest.

Post #423 » by **nate33** » Wed Feb 14, 2024 3:25 pm

Josh Robbins doesn't believe that Dallas had two FRP's on the table for Kuz:

https://youtu.be/sZVXkiU7pxQ?si=cl-tO3H6XaFjJ1-1&t=228

payitforward · Post #424 » by **payitforward** » Wed Feb 14, 2024 4:24 pm

I agree with him... in the sense that it would have been hard for a team at the beginning of a rebuild to turn down 2 R1 picks for Kuz....

Worth mentioning as well that we seem to have left it up to Kuz to say yes or no to the deal. Hard to imagine that with multiple R1 picks on the table, don't you think...?

Frichuela · Post #425 » by **Frichuela** » Fri Feb 16, 2024 3:28 pm

About time…play Butler in his place.

Shame we could not get a 2nd rounder for him

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=GWeuz7j_sc5cBYZzdD92Tw

Post #426 » by **nate33** » Fri Feb 16, 2024 3:57 pm

Frichuela wrote:About time…play Butler in his place.

Shame we could not get a 2nd rounder for him

Read on Twitter
?s=46&t=GWeuz7j_sc5cBYZzdD92Tw

Was there news that he was actually bought out? Or just the speculation in the tweet?

Frichuela · Post #427 » by **Frichuela** » Fri Feb 16, 2024 4:10 pm

nate33 wrote:
Frichuela wrote:About time…play Butler in his place.

Shame we could not get a 2nd rounder for him

Read on Twitter
?s=46&t=GWeuz7j_sc5cBYZzdD92Tw

Was there news that he was actually bought out? Or just the speculation in the tweet?

Just speculation as far as I can tell...We have until late Feb though...

payitforward · Post #428 » by **payitforward** » Fri Feb 16, 2024 10:02 pm

https://www.si.com/fannation/nba/fastbreak/news/breaking-miami-heat-reportedly-signing-9-year-nba-veteran-delon-wright

payitforward · Post #429 » by **payitforward** » Fri Feb 16, 2024 10:05 pm

Though I must say, I don't see why we'd buy him out. What am I missing?

We save some $$, but we give up his Bird rights (correct?). Perhaps they are valueless.... (he says, & then waits for nate to explain!

)

Benjammin · Post #430 » by **Benjammin** » Fri Feb 16, 2024 11:45 pm

I think it's about doing him a favor and showing other players that the franchise takes care of players.

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payitforward · Post #431 » by **payitforward** » Sat Feb 17, 2024 12:36 am

Makes sense -- then again, if we had just cut him, we'd have owed him his full salary. I assume this was all arranged in advance, & the buy-out plus the veteran minimum salary he'll get from Miami add up to that same total, i.e. the rest of his full salary.

So, he gets paid, & we save a little bit of $$$.

gambitx777 · Post #432 » by **gambitx777** » Sun Feb 18, 2024 4:42 am

Hot take. I think weather a trade was good or bad on the value done in the trade and weather a trade positivly or negatively affected the team later and how it worked out for the team needs to be two separate conversations.

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Post #433 » by **penbeast0** » Sun Feb 18, 2024 3:08 pm

So, when do we get Jared Butler some minutes and convert him to a 2 year deal? And do we sign Mac McClung to a 2-way to take his place as the G-League and garbage time stat generator?

Post #434 » by **nate33** » Sun Feb 18, 2024 5:35 pm

payitforward wrote:Though I must say, I don't see why we'd buy him out. What am I missing?

We save some $$, but we give up his Bird rights (correct?). Perhaps they are valueless.... (he says, & then waits for nate to explain! )

We don't need Bird Rights because we aren't going to resign a 32 year old veteran point guard. And even if we wanted to resign him, we could do so with a portion of the MLE because I seriously doubt we plan to use the MLE elsewhere because we want plenty of luxtax flexibility to use our TPE's this summer.

Mostly, this was just a move to save money. Wright wasn't worth anything on the trade market, so better to just buy him out and save the $1M or so that some other team will pay him to join their playoff roster. And obviously, it does promote good will, or at least doesn't actively encourage antipathy toward the Wizards organization. Keeping Wright here to ride the pine behind a two-way player rather than letting him join a contender wouldn't be a good look.

payitforward · Post #435 » by **payitforward** » Fri Feb 23, 2024 12:00 am

Missed your post... All extremely good points.

9 and 20 · Post #436 » by **9 and 20** » Sun Feb 25, 2024 8:38 am

Who has a boatload of draft picks over the next few years? The Spurs and Rockets are young teams and have a bunch of picks. Utah and OKC with Ainge and Presti being ahead of the game while we were getting Grundled.

I can see Kuzma in Utah maybe, but probably not for 2 picks with Ainge in charge. I bet Deni is getting traded to the highest bidder. He'd fit well pretty much anywhere. I'd want a lot for him and I think they could get a lot.

gesa2 · Post #437 » by **gesa2** » Sun Feb 25, 2024 1:36 pm

9 and 20 wrote:Who has a boatload of draft picks over the next few years? The Spurs and Rockets are young teams and have a bunch of picks. Utah and OKC with Ainge and Presti being ahead of the game while we were getting Grundled.

I can see Kuzma in Utah maybe, but probably not for 2 picks with Ainge in charge. I bet Deni is getting traded to the highest bidder. He'd fit well pretty much anywhere. I'd want a lot for him and I think they could get a lot.

I don’t see us moving Deni unless we get bowled over by an offer. Most importantly he’s young enough to still be in his prime on our next good team. He also plays the right way, can fit with almost any potential star we draft and he’s on a great contract.

Post #438 » by **nate33** » Sun Feb 25, 2024 3:03 pm

gesa2 wrote:
9 and 20 wrote:Who has a boatload of draft picks over the next few years? The Spurs and Rockets are young teams and have a bunch of picks. Utah and OKC with Ainge and Presti being ahead of the game while we were getting Grundled.

I can see Kuzma in Utah maybe, but probably not for 2 picks with Ainge in charge. I bet Deni is getting traded to the highest bidder. He'd fit well pretty much anywhere. I'd want a lot for him and I think they could get a lot.

I don’t see us moving Deni unless we get bowled over by an offer. Most importantly he’s young enough to still be in his prime on our next good team. He also plays the right way, can fit with almost any potential star we draft and he’s on a great contract.

Agreed. Deni is unlikely to be moved.

It's one thing when we are talking about guys like Gafford and Kispert. Those guys are 25 years old, probably pretty close to their peak, and their peak looks like that of a 20-min per game bench player on a good team rather than a starter. It makes sense to trade guys like that for value because you can ultimately replace them rather easily with a lucky SRP or a free agency acquisition.

But Deni just turned 23 six weeks ago and is still on the upswing. He is basically a sure thing to peak as a reliable starter on a playoff team, with some potential to be even better than that. And he will be in his prime for another 8-10 years. He is exactly the type of player a rebuilding team needs: a guy who projects to be a starter when we are finally good.

Deni will only be moved if there is some weird situation where a luxtax team has to trade a star at a redundant position to save money. Like maybe, 2 or 3 years down the road, Cleveland decides they can't afford to pay all four of Mitchell, Allen, Mobley and Garland max contracts so decides to trade Mobley for Deni's affordable contract. (I'm not suggesting that scenario will take place, but it would be something like that.)

payitforward · Post #439 » by **payitforward** » Sun Feb 25, 2024 3:16 pm

This is economics not basketball. If you own an asset that is growing in value you don't exchange it for it's worth now. Duh.

9 and 20 · Post #440 » by **9 and 20** » Mon Feb 26, 2024 3:14 am

I dunno, seems like the front office could have done better with Gafford than the #27 pick and getting Richuan Holmes dumped on us, but they really want picks, apparently.

All the good stuff about Deni, I agree with, and I assume it's baked into his value. If they would have taken two firsts for Kuzma, I'm guessing they'd at least think about 3 for Deni. There are teams out there so flush with first rounders that they might give up a bunch for him. Depends on the picks, of course, but having two lottery picks a year (if you include our own) for the next 3 years would be something.