Official Trade Thread Part XLVI

[nate33]

But Jesus: telling the entire world that you’re going to lose, as they essentially have, and that you don’t care to compete, as they also essentially have — and not for one season, but likely for several seasons — is … something. At a minimum, it’s contrary to the spirit of sport; a violation of the basic fact of sports.

Again, is it permitted? Sure. Does the league sort of encourage it even? Oh, it does, it does. Does it behoove a team in the Wizards’s position to do it? Abso-fxcking-lutely.

But the fact that we’re doing it — that it’s shrewd to do it — just shows how wack the system is, and makes me question why I spend any time at all on all of this, when what I want most from a game that I use to escape from the world is not to be reminded that the world is broken and flawed and nonsensical.

It's not that they're trying to lose. The players and coaches are trying their hardest to win every game. It's that the organization is placing a higher priority on player development than short term wins. You watch the games because you want to see Deni, Bilal and Kispert get better. The occasional win is just gravy.

[payitforward]

...yes, it’s shrewd, and yes, I support it, I also say: it’s more than kinda making a mockery of things....

But... it's precisely this POV I fail to understand!

If we didn't have reverse-record-based draft, there would be, essentially, almost no way at all for a team to rebuild. There would be very little change over the years.

...Is it asking too much for us all to acknowledge this? Is that asking for too much?

But... you're asking for acknowledgement not of a fact but of a judgement! I don't share that judgement.

...telling the entire world that ...you don’t care to compete, as they also essentially have — and not for one season, but likely for several seasons — is … something. At a minimum, it’s contrary to the spirit of sport; a violation of the basic fact of sports. [/quote]
nate has already responded to this point, so I'll just echo that the games aren't fixed! When the ball goes up, guys compete -- hard. *That* is the essence of sport.


Again, is it permitted? Sure. Does the league sort of encourage it even? Oh, it does, it does. Does it behoove a team in the Wizards’s position to do it? Abso-fxcking-lutely.

...

...what I want most from a game that I use to escape from the world is not to be reminded that the world is broken and flawed and nonsensical.

The world is flawed, to be sure. & it is full of things that are broken. But within those broken things, those shards, are the tools to repair the world. The tools of "tikkun olam," a phrase I'm thinking is familiar to you. & so the world is not nonsensical.

We all fight battles we know we will lose, but we fight them all the same with everything that we've got! For that matter, every life is that kind of battle. Right down to the essence. But we still fight to live.

What the Wizards are engaged in now, seen from a POV outside professional sports, is a struggle to change. That's a good thing. An essential thing. Difficult, to be sure. But essential all the same.

[DCZards]

The Zards are competing most nights. They just don’t have the talent to win against most NBA teams, especially since almost all of them have more talent and more at stake than the Zards.

[AFM]

Hard to compete when you have Jordan Poo shooting 1-12 from the field on any given night. This guy is going to be a millstone 'round our necks for years and I see no way out.

[nate33]

Hard to compete when you have Jordan Poo shooting 1-12 from the field on any given night. This guy is going to be a millstone 'round our necks for years and I see no way out.

It just doesn't make sense to keep playing him. Give Kispert that starting SG role and give him the opportunity work on his playmaking as a ball handler. That's a much better way to build toward the future than to continue to watch Poole chuck up shots at terrible efficiency on offense while sabotaging the defense at the other end of the floor.

[Frichuela]

Hard to compete when you have Jordan Poo shooting 1-12 from the field on any given night. This guy is going to be a millstone 'round our necks for years and I see no way out.

It just doesn't make sense to keep playing him. Give Kispert that starting SG role and give him the opportunity work on his playmaking as a ball handler. That's a much better way to build toward the future than to continue to watch Poole chuck up shots at terrible efficiency on offense while sabotaging the defense at the other end of the floor.

Agreed. Very frustrating. At this point, there must be pressure from the FO to keep playing Poole in the starting unit...The question (I guess the FO is grappling with) is can Poole turn around his performance? Does he need external help (eg. a sports psychologist)?

If it was down to me I'd shut down Poole right now and take advantage of the all star break to see if he can mentally reset. And after that, I'd bring him off the bench. But this FO may have other hopes/plans...

[FAH1223]

Read on Twitter

?s=20

DALLAS — How close did the Washington Wizards come to trading forward Kyle Kuzma to the Dallas Mavericks in the days leading up to this season’s NBA trade deadline?

So close that it probably would have taken only a little nudge from Kuzma himself to make the deal happen.

When Wizards chief decision-maker Michael Winger informed Kuzma that the general framework of a trade was in place to send Kuzma to the Mavericks — a potential deal that Winger felt only lukewarm about — Kuzma told Winger he wanted to remain with the Wizards.

“There was a point in time, Dallas, they definitely did want me,” Kuzma told The Athletic on Monday, before the Wizards played the Mavericks at American Airlines Center. “Winger presented me with what the trade was and obviously didn’t want to trade me and kind of left the decision up to me a little bit and asked me what I wanted to do. I told him I wanted to stay and continue to build something. And that was kind of the end of it.”

Winger called the Mavericks back and said the deal was off the table.

If that level of transparency between team officials and a player ahead of a trade deadline sounds a bit unusual — well, it is unusual.

Kuzma does not have a no-trade clause built into the four-year, $90 million guaranteed contract that he and the Wizards agreed to last summer. But Kuzma committed to re-signing with Washington after team officials traded Bradley Beal and Kristaps Porziņģis; those trades set in motion a rebuild that almost certainly will take years to complete. Winger pledged to Kuzma and Kuzma’s agent, Austin Brown, that, unless the Wizards’ received a trade offer in the future for Kuzma that was too good to refuse, he would listen to Kuzma’s input about potential trades.

The potential trade with Dallas was one of those instances — a potential trade that, from the Wizards’ perspective, was fair but not a home run.

“Kyle’s an important player for us and (a) significant contributor to our developing culture,” Winger told The Athletic on Monday. “His commitment is necessary for us to achieve our competitive and environmental objectives. Under the circumstances, I wanted to check in with his belief to continue leading us. He reemphasized his desire to forge ahead, and we’re honored to have him.”

It’s unclear what draft pick(s) and player(s) Dallas would have sent to Washington in the deal.

Kuzma, 28, likely would have been in a support role with the Mavericks, who have perennial All-Star Luka Dončić and Kyrie Irving in place as their top two scoring options. But Kuzma has extensive playoff experience, having served as a critical role player on the Los Angeles Lakers’ 2020 NBA championship team. Kuzma’s defensive rebounding, passing and scoring could have helped the Mavericks.

Washington, now 9-44, has the league’s second-worst record. Dallas sits in eighth place in the West with a 31-23 record.

Asked by The Athletic why he told Winger he wanted to remain with the Wizards instead of joining the Mavericks, Kuzma answered, “In my career, I won a championship. So, I understand that when we play this game of basketball it’s not about contending for a playoff spot. It’s about contending for an NBA championship. There’s only like three or four contenders — true contenders. I just felt like our timelines didn’t line up.”

Kuzma did not need a reminder of how potent the Mavericks can be, but he received one on Monday night when the Mavs hosted the Wizards. Washington carried an 88-78 lead into the fourth quarter, but Dallas, led by Dončić, dominated the fourth quarter and won 112-104.

Kuzma, who was playing even though he was sick with a non-COVID illness, finished with 23 points, eight rebounds and four turnovers.

For the Mavericks, the trade talks with the Wizards about Kuzma were not a total dead end. After Winger informed Dallas general manager Nico Harrison there would be no deal for Kuzma, the teams agreed on a different trade. Washington traded center Daniel Gafford to Dallas for a 2024 first-round pick (the more favorable of the LA Clippers’ and Oklahoma City Thunder’s first-round picks) and center Richaun Holmes.

In a separate move, the Mavericks traded Grant Williams, Seth Curry and a lightly protected 2027 first-round pick to the Charlotte Hornets for forward P.J. Washington.

On Monday, Gafford played well against the Wizards. In 24 minutes, Gafford scored 16 points, collected 17 rebounds and blocked five shots.

“Gafford’s got the easiest job in sports now,” Kuzma told reporters in the Wizards’ postgame locker room. “Everybody’s just going to double (Luka). He’s going to catch the ball in the middle of the key, and he’s just got to make the right play, either pass it or dunk it. Sixteen (points) and 17 (rebounds) in 24 minutes? It’s tough (to overcome). I’m happy for him. Very happy for him.”

The Wizards made a total of two trades during the recent trade-deadline cycle: the Gafford deal and a mid-January deal in which they received center Marvin Bagley III, forward Isaiah Livers, a 2025 second-round pick and a 2026 second-round pick from the Detroit Pistons for veteran bigs Danilo Gallinari and Mike Muscala.

Many rival executives expected the Wizards to trade point guard Tyus Jones, who will become an unrestricted free agent this summer. But Washington retained Jones, with the clear hope of re-signing Jones in July.

All indications are that Winger and Wizards general manager Will Dawkins had an ongoing dialogue with Jones and Jones’ primary agent, Kevin Bradbury, in the days leading into the trade deadline about possible trades.

“They were open and honest with me and my agent, honestly, from the beginning and just more so down the stretch closer to the deadline just because stuff picks up,” Jones said. “But I appreciate Will and Michael for that just because they don’t have to do that; they have a job to do.

“But at the same time, them just kind of keeping us in the loop and keeping us informed and kind of seeing where our heads were at and just letting us know what they were thinking, what they were hearing and certain conversations they were having — it was a blessing. And it was much appreciated. Ultimately, them keeping me here was appreciated as well. I’m glad to be here, glad to put on a Wizards uniform and continue to build with these guys and try to lead. I take a tremendous pride in being a leader in this locker room and being a leader on this team and for this organization. So, for the front office to continue to trust in me and believe in me, I appreciate that, and we’re going to continue to take steps forward here.”

Kuzma will have three full seasons remaining on his contract after the 2023-24 season ends, and his name likely will surface in trade talks in the future. Down the road, it’s possible the Wizards will negotiate a better offer with another team than the offer they nearly finalized with the Mavericks.

For now, however, Kuzma said he is thankful for Wizards officials’ communication and transparency as this season’s trade deadline approached.

“Winger, he’s been very straightforward with me ever since my first meeting with him,” Kuzma told The Athletic. He’s a very blunt person, and I am, too. So, I think our relationship has been very positive because of that. You know, not every player can say that. Especially in this business, a lot of things are very passive-aggressive, non-confrontational. A lot of times, a lot of front offices leave a lot of players a little confused on the ground level, and that hasn’t been Winger at all.”

[CntOutSmrtCrazy]

Hard to compete when you have Jordan Poo shooting 1-12 from the field on any given night. This guy is going to be a millstone 'round our necks for years and I see no way out.

It just doesn't make sense to keep playing him. Give Kispert that starting SG role and give him the opportunity work on his playmaking as a ball handler. That's a much better way to build toward the future than to continue to watch Poole chuck up shots at terrible efficiency on offense while sabotaging the defense at the other end of the floor.

Agreed. Very frustrating. At this point, there must be pressure from the FO to keep playing Poole in the starting unit...The question (I guess the FO is grappling with) is can Poole turn around his performance? Does he need external help (eg. a sports psychologist)?

If it was down to me I'd shut down Poole right now and take advantage of the all star break to see if he can mentally reset. And after that, I'd bring him off the bench. But this FO may have other hopes/plans...

He needs to be sent to the bench, and get some coach decision DNPs. It is getting out of hand, he's been given more leeway than 99% of others would have gotten and still hasn't gotten the message or figured things out. He needs a complete reset, and I believe part of that is watching from the bench for awhile, in game action ain't helping him.

[payitforward]

The long story above -- in which Kuz & Jones talk about their relationships w/ Winger & Dawkins & about their satisfaction in being part of this rebuild -- is very satisfying to read.

We are a long way from even being able to set players up on the game board -- but we are headed in the right direction, & I have substantial confidence in the guys running things now. Big change: very positive!

[dckingsfan]

It just doesn't make sense to keep playing him. Give Kispert that starting SG role and give him the opportunity work on his playmaking as a ball handler. That's a much better way to build toward the future than to continue to watch Poole chuck up shots at terrible efficiency on offense while sabotaging the defense at the other end of the floor.

Agreed. Very frustrating. At this point, there must be pressure from the FO to keep playing Poole in the starting unit...The question (I guess the FO is grappling with) is can Poole turn around his performance? Does he need external help (eg. a sports psychologist)?

If it was down to me I'd shut down Poole right now and take advantage of the all star break to see if he can mentally reset. And after that, I'd bring him off the bench. But this FO may have other hopes/plans...

He needs to be sent to the bench, and get some coach decision DNPs. It is getting out of hand, he's been given more leeway then 99% of other would have gotten and still hasn't gotten the message or figured things out. He needs a complete reset, and I believe part of that is watching from the bench for awhile, in game action ain't helping him.

Let's give it a bit of time to play out. I am interested to see how the coaching staff and FO handle this. How they handle this over the longer-term should be how we judge this (IMO of course).

[penbeast0]

OKC is going to be so sick over the next decade. Just looking at the 2024 offseason:

Currently have the 10th and 11th pick in the draft.

Roughly $46 million in cap room once you remove the cap holds.

Tradeable contracts in Giddey, Kenrich Williams, and Dieng. The decision on Giddey is going to be massive, because they could package him and picks or just package him on his own and restart the clock on someone else. Jalen-Chet-SGA is their core, and if one of their picks breaks through, great, if not, they'll restart the clock on everyone else just to keep their core around. It's brilliantly laid out.

I'd like to see them make a move and trade some of their war chest of picks for one more really good youngish vet that fits well. I'm not sure how long they should sit back and be patient. They're good enough to try and win titles right now. And pretty soon, guys will start getting expensive and it will be tougher to hold everything together.

I'd love to see them trade Giddey and picks for Markkanen. A closing lineup of Chet, Markkanen, Williams, SGA and Wallace would be ridiculous.

Honestly, the guy that would be absolutely perfect for them is Avdija. He gives them toughness, defense and rebounding that they lack and he is a ball mover to fit their system, but teams won't leave him alone from 3 like they do with Giddey. And finally, he is cheap for another 4 years to free up salary for them to pay their stars.

This offseason, what would your idea of a fair trade that Washington should accept in terms of Giddey for Avdija (they have similar contracts)?

[doclinkin]

The long story above -- in which Kuz & Jones talk about their relationships w/ Winger & Dawkins & about their satisfaction in being part of this rebuild -- is very satisfying to read.

We are a long way from even being able to set players up on the game board -- but we are headed in the right direction, & I have substantial confidence in the guys running things now. Big change: very positive!

Right and even those who are team 'Trade Kuz' can be hopeful from this article. I like him more and more as a person, whatever his stats and play style, and as a basketball mind he seems to be notably sensible. Here he didn't strictly say he was against being traded, but the way I read it he assessed the Mavs chances of winning and decided this was not their championship window. If he is going to swap out to a high pressure situation, he wants to see a change to a contending team, not jumping onto an also-ran team that does not have an ideal fit for him. I suspect the offers in the offseason will be better, greater, more, and the front office is building good relations with players but being upfront with the understanding that there are offers that they'd be stupid to turn down. I like these guys, meanwhile it is easy to support players like Kuzma and Jones who genuinely seem to like being here. For now, for the mid-term future, and to help with the development of young players for whatever is next.

[nate33]

OKC is going to be so sick over the next decade. Just looking at the 2024 offseason:

Currently have the 10th and 11th pick in the draft.

Roughly $46 million in cap room once you remove the cap holds.

Tradeable contracts in Giddey, Kenrich Williams, and Dieng. The decision on Giddey is going to be massive, because they could package him and picks or just package him on his own and restart the clock on someone else. Jalen-Chet-SGA is their core, and if one of their picks breaks through, great, if not, they'll restart the clock on everyone else just to keep their core around. It's brilliantly laid out.

I'd like to see them make a move and trade some of their war chest of picks for one more really good youngish vet that fits well. I'm not sure how long they should sit back and be patient. They're good enough to try and win titles right now. And pretty soon, guys will start getting expensive and it will be tougher to hold everything together.

I'd love to see them trade Giddey and picks for Markkanen. A closing lineup of Chet, Markkanen, Williams, SGA and Wallace would be ridiculous.

Honestly, the guy that would be absolutely perfect for them is Avdija. He gives them toughness, defense and rebounding that they lack and he is a ball mover to fit their system, but teams won't leave him alone from 3 like they do with Giddey. And finally, he is cheap for another 4 years to free up salary for them to pay their stars.

This offseason, what would your idea of a fair trade that Washington should accept in terms of Giddey for Avdija (they have similar contracts)?

I'm the wrong guy to ask because I have an irrational love for Avdija. I also don't like Giddey at all. He is such a terrible shooter and has no touch around the rim. He is rapidly becoming an offensive liability. I'm curious to see if he gets played off the floor in the playoffs.

The other problem is that most of OKC's future picks are unlikely to be very high. I'd rather have Avdija than three future picks in the 20's. For example, if they offered us the HOU 2024 pick (likely late lotto), the PHI 2025 pick (probably low 20's unless Embiid gets hurt), and the HOU 2026 pick (let's call it late teens) I don't know if I'd be all that excited about it.

Let's face it, for all the talk of Presti being so great by accumulating all these draft picks, the fact is, the strength of their team is SGA (acquired by trade not a pick), and three lottery picks all generated by their own tanking (Chet, Giddey, Wallace). The only core player they acquired via trading for other picks was Jalen Williams, and he was obtained by trading for an actual lotto pick. For the most part, all these non-lotto picks that are traded with such fanfare don't usually pan out to be much.

[payitforward]

The long story above -- in which Kuz & Jones talk about their relationships w/ Winger & Dawkins & about their satisfaction in being part of this rebuild -- is very satisfying to read.

We are a long way from even being able to set players up on the game board -- but we are headed in the right direction, & I have substantial confidence in the guys running things now. Big change: very positive!

Right and even those who are team 'Trade Kuz' can be hopeful from this article. I like him more and more as a person, whatever his stats and play style, and as a basketball mind he seems to be notably sensible. Here he didn't strictly say he was against being traded, but the way I read it he assessed the Mavs chances of winning and decided this was not their championship window. If he is going to swap out to a high pressure situation, he wants to see a change to a contending team, not jumping onto an also-ran team that does not have an ideal fit for him. I suspect the offers in the offseason will be better, greater, more, and the front office is building good relations with players but being upfront with the understanding that there are offers that they'd be stupid to turn down. I like these guys, meanwhile it is easy to support players like Kuzma and Jones who genuinely seem to like being here. For now, for the mid-term future, and to help with the development of young players for whatever is next.

100% -- above all, it's really difficult to *dislike* Kyle Kuzma. He just seems to be an outstanding human being in so many ways.

[penbeast0]

I'm the wrong guy to ask because I have an irrational love for Avdija. I also don't like Giddey at all. He is such a terrible shooter and has no touch around the rim. He is rapidly becoming an offensive liability. I'm curious to see if he gets played off the floor in the playoffs.

The other problem is that most of OKC's future picks are unlikely to be very high. I'd rather have Avdija than three future picks in the 20's. For example, if they offered us the HOU 2024 pick (likely late lotto), the PHI 2025 pick (probably low 20's unless Embiid gets hurt), and the HOU 2026 pick (let's call it late teens) I don't know if I'd be all that excited about it.

Let's face it, for all the talk of Presti being so great by accumulating all these draft picks, the fact is, the strength of their team is SGA (acquired by trade not a pick), and three lottery picks all generated by their own tanking (Chet, Giddey, Wallace). The only core player they acquired via trading for other picks was Jalen Williams. For the most part, all these non-lotto picks that are traded with such fanfare don't usually pan out to be much.

I'm with you on Avdija, though I like Giddey more than you do and think he can develop his shot the way Avdija has done this year. Just don't think we can call anyone untouchable and you had expressed an interest in their war chest so was looking for an evaluation of what you, as a Wiz homer, would think was an offer that might be able to pry loose Deni.

[Runner300]

As an Avdija "stan" I would LOVE to see him in OKC.
He fits in perfectly within their game style, although his role would be more of a second unit guy.
As for Giddey - he's working with Chip Engelland, and I believe his 3pt shot is already better than Deni had in his 3rd year.
Also, Giddey is a very high %USG player, and "passive" is not in his vocabulary.

[FAH1223]

Read on Twitter

[9 and 20]

Read on Twitter

We turned down 2 first for Kuz, and we could have kept Gaff? Seems like we lost twice. Prove me wrong, Winger.

[gambitx777]

The long story above -- in which Kuz & Jones talk about their relationships w/ Winger & Dawkins & about their satisfaction in being part of this rebuild -- is very satisfying to read.

We are a long way from even being able to set players up on the game board -- but we are headed in the right direction, & I have substantial confidence in the guys running things now. Big change: very positive!

Love that! Like that's how it should be. Unless someone put an offer in your face and you can't say no respect for the play is important. I looked at Dallas for kuz and that would be terrible for him.

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using RealGM mobile app

[pcbothwel]

Read on Twitter

We turned down 2 first for Kuz, and we could have kept Gaff? Seems like we lost twice. Prove me wrong, Winger.

Kuz doesn’t want to play in Dallas. They are not good enough to win a ring and have no other assets/avenues to improve.
They have two ball dominant/score ring guards, and are coached by Jason Kidd.

Winger already stated that the offer was acceptable, but nothing note worthy. The demand market will increase this summer … so why rush