The Amazingly Suck Winger/Dawkins thread

[payitforward]

...it would have been nice to get a another player in the 16-20 range....

For sure, & in '22 for example I was all over trading down from 10 e.g. for 17 & 26 from Houston, giving us Tari Eason & allowing us to trade the #26 down again & wind up with.... oh how about Vince Williams, Gui Santos & Jabari Walker? All of whom have been quite good so far!

Now... answering these questions is made much easier by being able to look back at results -- even preliminary results. Doesn't require much skill on my part to point to the obvious!

...Who do you think the Wizards should have taken at #35

TJ-D obviously -- & then take his twin brother at 42 & the the third of the J-D triplets at 57...!

To be -- or try to be, anyway -- a little more serious, Andre Jackson Jr. went at #36 & has been productive, & Craig Porter Jr., who went undrafted, has been productive too.

So... someone with "Jr." at the end of his name?
We'll have to look for that in the '24 draft.

[Jay81]

so Dawkins had multiple chances to draft GG Jackson...whiffed. Off to a tommy sheppard like start

[nate33]

so Dawkins had multiple chances to draft GG Jackson...whiffed. Off to a tommy sheppard like start

By this standard, nearly every GM is awful.

You can't just look at one late draft success story and use it as a rationale to criticize specific GMs. The nature of the draft is that there is always late successes and early busts. In any one year, it's mostly just being lucky or unlucky. Over time, if teams have a consistent track record of finding late gems, or a track record of never finding them, then you can start assuming there is real skill involved (like with Memphis) or a lack thereof (Ernie). But you can't make that assumption after just one draft. Heck, we don't even know yet if our late pick (Vukcevic) is good or not. He might be awesome!

[pcbothwel]

so Dawkins had multiple chances to draft GG Jackson...whiffed. Off to a tommy sheppard like start

Ehhh... He's a savvy scorer, but doesnt do much else. If his defense improves, he'll be Harrison Barnes...not a big miss.

[Jay81]

so Dawkins had multiple chances to draft GG Jackson...whiffed. Off to a tommy sheppard like start

By this standard, nearly every GM is awful.

You can't just look at one late draft success story and use it as a rationale to criticize specific GMs. The nature of the draft is that there is always late successes and early busts. In any one year, it's mostly just being lucky or unlucky. Over time, if teams have a consistent track record of finding late gems, or a track record of never finding them, then you can start assuming there is real skill involved (like with Memphis) or a lack thereof (Ernie). But you can't make that assumption after just one draft. Heck, we don't even know yet if our late pick (Vukcevic) is good or not. He might be awesome!

when you have no assets/talent on your team....you need to be swinging on 2nd rounders. Trading the bulls pick was unforgivable imo. Dawkins should be able to hit on 2nd rounders....why is he trading them away.

[nate33]

so Dawkins had multiple chances to draft GG Jackson...whiffed. Off to a tommy sheppard like start

By this standard, nearly every GM is awful.

You can't just look at one late draft success story and use it as a rationale to criticize specific GMs. The nature of the draft is that there is always late successes and early busts. In any one year, it's mostly just being lucky or unlucky. Over time, if teams have a consistent track record of finding late gems, or a track record of never finding them, then you can start assuming there is real skill involved (like with Memphis) or a lack thereof (Ernie). But you can't make that assumption after just one draft. Heck, we don't even know yet if our late pick (Vukcevic) is good or not. He might be awesome!

when you have no assets/talent on your team....you need to be swinging on 2nd rounders. Trading the bulls pick was unforgivable imo. Dawkins should be able to hit on 2nd rounders....why is he trading them away.

He didn't trade it away. He traded one current SRP for two future Chicago SRP's in 2026 and 2027 respectively. That's actually a good thing. Chicago is unlikely to be very good in 2026 and 2027. I like that he was willing to defer a short term benefit for a greater long term benefit.

[doclinkin]

Reminder: about this thread. It is a ji thread. Ji worships disaster. That's why he's a weather obsessive. His parents named him Jihad for crying out loud. When every kid in the sandbox was naming their favorite dinosaur, ji was naming his favorite extinction event. You're team T-Rex, he's team asteroid. He roots for destruction. That's the reason he's a Wizards fan.

[nate33]

Reminder: about this thread. It is a ji thread. Ji worships disaster. That's why he's a weather obsessive. His parents named him Jihad for crying out loud. He roots for destruction. That's the reason he's a Wizards fan.

Yeah, I get it. I'm okay with criticism of Winger/Dawkins. I just wish the criticism was halfway fair and reasonable.

Criticize them for the Poole trade. Of for trading away the #58 pick. Or for failing to trade Tyus for value. Heck, you can even bash them for Coulibaly if you like. Or for trading Gafford for such a late pick in such a crappy draft. Or for not firing Wes at the start of the season. I don't necessarily agree with all these criticisms, but at least there's a logical argument for them.

I just get annoyed with criticisms like: "he didn't draft that one late round surprise."

[doclinkin]

Reminder: about this thread. It is a ji thread. Ji worships disaster. That's why he's a weather obsessive. His parents named him Jihad for crying out loud. He roots for destruction. That's the reason he's a Wizards fan.

Yeah, I get it. I'm okay with criticism of Winger/Dawkins. I just wish the criticism was half-way fair and reasonable.

Criticize them for the Poole trade. Of for trading away the #58 pick. Or for failing to trade Tyus for value. Heck, you can even bash them for Coulibaly if you like. Or for trading Gafford for such a late pick in such a crappy draft. Or for not firing Wes at the start of the season. I don't necessarily agree with all these criticisms, but at least there's a logical argument for them.

I just get annoyed with criticisms like: "he didn't draft that one late round surprise."

Sure, but be comforted by the fact that, except for weather disasters, ji's predictions always go wrong. He started every losing streak by interrupting game thread winners with new game threads. You can't spell 'jinx' without 'ji'. If he hates the FO then we are in good position.

[payitforward]

By this standard, nearly every GM is awful.

You can't just look at one late draft success story and use it as a rationale to criticize specific GMs. The nature of the draft is that there is always late successes and early busts. In any one year, it's mostly just being lucky or unlucky. Over time, if teams have a consistent track record of finding late gems, or a track record of never finding them, then you can start assuming there is real skill involved (like with Memphis) or a lack thereof (Ernie). But you can't make that assumption after just one draft. Heck, we don't even know yet if our late pick (Vukcevic) is good or not. He might be awesome!

when you have no assets/talent on your team....you need to be swinging on 2nd rounders. Trading the bulls pick was unforgivable imo. Dawkins should be able to hit on 2nd rounders....why is he trading them away.

He didn't trade it away. He traded one current SRP for two future Chicago SRP's in 2026 and 2027 respectively. That's actually a good thing. Chicago is unlikely to be very good in 2026 and 2027. I like that he was willing to defer a short term benefit for a greater long term benefit.

At the time, I wondered why the h#ll he dealt that pick, but your point is a solid one nonetheless.

As to GG Jackson, if we "whiffed" on him so did every other team in the league, given that he was picked at #39. Now, if Chicago had taken him w/ the #36 pick we traded, then at least there'd be a kind of narrative here. They didn't.

For that matter, the point would be a lot stronger if GG Jackson was having a good rookie season. He's not. Nor did he play well against us the other night.

[DCZards]

For that matter, the point would be a lot stronger if GG Jackson was having a good rookie season. He's not. Nor did he play well against us the other night.

Agree that GG Jackson has had a mediocre season overall. Great offensive stat line on Wednesday though with 35 pts. and 7 threes on 58% from the field. Also had 4 offensive boards.

I’ve seen enough of Jackson to believe that he has a high upside…at least on offense. And he’s still a kid…doesn't turn 20 until the end of the year.

[payitforward]

I'm not trying to hate on GG Jackson. &, as I wrote, I would have used that #36 pick. & there are some guys from R2 of the draft who have looked good -- Andre Jackson Jr., Trayce (obviously), Craig Porter Jr. (who went undrafted)...

...& anyway everybody knows I always want lots of rookies!

[payitforward]

Oh what the H#ll -- here are some rookie highlights from the #57 pick in the 2023 draft.

Watch on YouTube

[closg00]

PBJ was 0-7 from the floor (all 3's) with 0 points, 2 rebounds and 0 assists in 16 minutes of play.

From tonights game thread^, PBJ finished 0-8, I really really really wish we weren't going to have PBJR and Davis on the the team next-year.

[DCZards]

PBJ was 0-7 from the floor (all 3's) with 0 points, 2 rebounds and 0 assists in 16 minutes of play.

From tonights game thread^, PBJ finished 0-8, I really really really wish we weren't going to have PBJR and Davis on the the team next-year.

Yeah… it was painful watching PBJ clank shot after shot tonight. I had hoped that sticking the 3 was the one thing he’d be able to do reasonably well. I guess not.

On the other hand, it was encouraging watching Butler have one of his better games. Kudos to Dawkins for bringing Jared along with him from OKC. I would love to see the ball in Poole’s hands less and Butler’s hands more.

[NatP4]

PBJ was 0-7 from the floor (all 3's) with 0 points, 2 rebounds and 0 assists in 16 minutes of play.

From tonights game thread^, PBJ finished 0-8, I really really really wish we weren't going to have PBJR and Davis on the the team next-year.

Davis has actually been slowly turning it around in the last 5 or so games. He’s not shooting the ball much, but he’s putting up 8-4-3-1-1 on 56% TS with 0 turnovers in a little less than 20 minutes a night. It’s nothing special, but Davis playing like a useful rotation player is a positive development.

Jared Butler looks fantastic. 14&7 last night. Has now played over 400 minutes this year and posted 15 points 8 assists 1.7 steals per 36 on 57% TS. To me, he looks like a starting PG, and doesn’t turn 24 until the beginning of next season! There’s a real chance that he’s our Jalen Brunson.

PBJ was never a NBA prospect

[penbeast0]

And yet Butler isn't under contract for next year so far as I can tell. He's going to play somewhere, I'd be disappointed if he just signs with someone else.

[queridiculo]

The problem was not taking this approach when Leonsis hired Grunfeld's lackey.

It's painful, and unfortunatley years too late.

Missed out on a bunch of future all-pros, primarily because Leonsis was once again smarter than everybody else.

Ps: Don't have much faith in this group either, but I also recognize that we won't be able to judge this process until 4-5 years from now.

[Jay81]

Vuk producing. Weird seeing a contribution from a draft and stash. Nice find Dawkins

Sent from my SM-A515U using Tapatalk

[nate33]

And yet Butler isn't under contract for next year so far as I can tell. He's going to play somewhere, I'd be disappointed if he just signs with someone else.

One thing we have going for us is that there are minutes available at PG (assuming Tyus isn't resigned). If we don't end up drafting a PG, I think it's highly likely that he'll be convinced to stay. We can easily match any other offer while offering him a regular spot in the rotation.