Eddie Jordan has a double standard

[fishercob]

It's not an excuse so much as it's a fact that the WIzards don't have a center nearly as good as Haywood at their disposal right now.

[doclinkin]

The argument isn't that EJ has a double standard, the argument is that he has the same standard for everybody regardless of talent level. If you want to complain, you complain about that, that he rewards 'effort' more than he rewards 'performance'. Dray was playing a bit lazy, and was shown up on consecutive possessions by the last object-lesson to leave the team (KFB). EJ wasn't having it and played a couple guys who would play with heart even if they were getting their ass handed to them.

Now you can argue the intelligence of that decision. Or complain about playing the starters too many minutes, or complain that EJ doesn't recognize the in-game flow as well as he might(playing ET too few minutes in Jersey, Dray too many, then reversing it here) and you might be right in either case. But the fact is Darius Songaila was playing hard smart ball much of the game. He was giving 100% of his lack, where Dray was giving 54% of his plenty. And the +/- bears it out. Darius had a positive effect on the rest of his team.

Look it's gonna be a hard year trying to replace both a starting Point Guard (or Scoring guard, however you look at it) and starting Center. I expect it to be maddening most nights. Thing is the last game (NJ) with Andray playing heavy minutes, we had no offensive flow whatsoever. This game with Songaila pulling the heavy minutes, we tacked up a FG% of something like 52% on a team that in previous years was a defensive heavyweight. The Coach made an adjustment to get the offense working. Defense suffered, as usual. But it's no coincidence that Caron and Jamison and Nick all played well. And that Darius posted a double digit +/-.

What we want is an Andray who can play like Darius. Smart, tough, high energy, fouling hard rather than getting beat for easy lay-ups. If you shoot over the top of him, fine, but he'll still disrupt the pick and roll, and on offensise set up his teammates fro success before he'll jack a shot for no reason. Wiz'nasty says what I've been saying since we got DSong, his best benefit is less in his play (an upgrade from Ruffin or Samaki Walker or Calvin Booth or whomever we get at back-up Big) and more in his example for the young Bigs trying to learn what's expected of them.

But it's not a double standard. Same metric: effort. Even if there's no good way of measuring that. Or measuring its effectiveness.

The reason why I've tagged the team for wins in the low 30's is that I expect we'll see alot of the same: experimenting to find out who is ready to play in the middle for the best team benefit. Who provides the best balance of defensive effort and offensive flow. In otherwords: trying to find a reliable starting Big. I was excited with the possibilities at back-up when we had our defensive anchor in the middle, I had hopes that the newly mature Dray would learn and begin to make a case for himself as a future starter, but we know for a fact none of these guys are starter quality. Yet. Or in some cases, ever. But if JaVale (for instance) is ever going to take that role, he has to see how it's done within the framework of a team.

Still going to be maddening for a while, even if it pays dividends long term (the hope). That said, I want Dray out there too. He's our best chance for mid-future success. He knows the offense, has played well in a limited role, has tool that will help once he sinters with the team. Fuses completely. He just needs to re-simplify and play a supplementary role: defend the paint, challenge and recover on the pick and roll, rebound with gusto, find your offense when you got the shot, but don't force it, don't try to do too much, it'll come.

[LyricalRico]

The argument isn't that EJ has a double standard, the argument is that he has the same standard for everybody regardless of talent level. If you want to complain, you complain about that, that he rewards 'effort' more than he rewards 'performance'. Dray was playing a bit lazy, and was shown up on consecutive possessions by the last object-lesson to leave the team (KFB). EJ wasn't having it and played a couple guys who would play with heart even if they were getting their ass handed to them.

<snip>

But it's not a double standard. Same metric: effort. Even if there's no good way of measuring that. Or measuring its effectiveness.

I'll agree with this.

[GilArenas88]

NEWSFLASH!

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

The argument isn't that EJ has a double standard, the argument is that he has the same standard for everybody regardless of talent level. If you want to complain, you complain about that, that he rewards 'effort' more than he rewards 'performance'. Dray was playing a bit lazy, and was shown up on consecutive possessions by the last object-lesson to leave the team (KFB). EJ wasn't having it and played a couple guys who would play with heart even if they were getting their ass handed to them.

Now you can argue the intelligence of that decision. Or complain about playing the starters too many minutes, or complain that EJ doesn't recognize the in-game flow as well as he might(playing ET too few minutes in Jersey, Dray too many, then reversing it here) and you might be right in either case. But the fact is Darius Songaila was playing hard smart ball much of the game. He was giving 100% of his lack, where Dray was giving 54% of his plenty. And the +/- bears it out. Darius had a positive effect on the rest of his team.

Look it's gonna be a hard year trying to replace both a starting Point Guard (or Scoring guard, however you look at it) and starting Center. I expect it to be maddening most nights. Thing is the last game (NJ) with Andray playing heavy minutes, we had no offensive flow whatsoever. This game with Songaila pulling the heavy minutes, we tacked up a FG% of something like 52% on a team that in previous years was a defensive heavyweight. The Coach made an adjustment to get the offense working. Defense suffered, as usual. But it's no coincidence that Caron and Jamison and Nick all played well. And that Darius posted a double digit +/-.

What we want is an Andray who can play like Darius. Smart, tough, high energy, fouling hard rather than getting beat for easy lay-ups. If you shoot over the top of him, fine, but he'll still disrupt the pick and roll, and on offensise set up his teammates fro success before he'll jack a shot for no reason. Wiz'nasty says what I've been saying since we got DSong, his best benefit is less in his play (an upgrade from Ruffin or Samaki Walker or Calvin Booth or whomever we get at back-up Big) and more in his example for the young Bigs trying to learn what's expected of them.

But it's not a double standard. Same metric: effort. Even if there's no good way of measuring that. Or measuring its effectiveness.

The reason why I've tagged the team for wins in the low 30's is that I expect we'll see alot of the same: experimenting to find out who is ready to play in the middle for the best team benefit. Who provides the best balance of defensive effort and offensive flow. In otherwords: trying to find a reliable starting Big. I was excited with the possibilities at back-up when we had our defensive anchor in the middle, I had hopes that the newly mature Dray would learn and begin to make a case for himself as a future starter, but we know for a fact none of these guys are starter quality. Yet. Or in some cases, ever. But if JaVale (for instance) is ever going to take that role, he has to see how it's done within the framework of a team.

Still going to be maddening for a while, even if it pays dividends long term (the hope). That said, I want Dray out there too. He's our best chance for mid-future success. He knows the offense, has played well in a limited role, has tool that will help once he sinters with the team. Fuses completely. He just needs to re-simplify and play a supplementary role: defend the paint, challenge and recover on the pick and roll, rebound with gusto, find your offense when you got the shot, but don't force it, don't try to do too much, it'll come.

Effort, shmefort. Don't know who said it first, but never mistake activity for effectiveness.

If the choice is be scrappy and lose or have overwhelming talent coast at times but win in the end, I'll take the win. The end justifies the means as far as I'm concerned.

[ZonkertheBrainless]

If you're in the right position and get beat by someone with better talent than you, that's effort without results. For example, Songaila trying to stop Rasheed on the post. Perfect defensive positioning, zero results (Detroit went to the same play three times in a row, got two straight baskets and a trip to the foul line).

Blatche probably would have picked up three straight fouls in the same situation, but at least he had a chance of making a stop. Well, look at it this way. If I'm a coach with Rasheed on my team and Songaila's guarding him, I say, go post that white boy up. From now until the end of the game. If Blatche is in there I don't call that play more than once or twice.

And I object to the idea that the offense somehow stagnates with Blatche in there. Not true! He moves the ball around plenty, it's just there's a high probability the ball ends up moving to the other team.

[Dat2U]

Effort, shmefort. Don't know who said it first, but never mistake activity for effectiveness.

If the choice is be scrappy and lose or have overwhelming talent coast at times but win in the end, I'll take the win. The end justifies the means as far as I'm concerned.

Hot damn. Truer words couldn't have been said. If EJ thinks effort is the most important thing then he's in the wrong business!!! This is the NBA for godsakes. We are talking about professional athletes! Eddie would be better off coaching some high school's JV team if his priority is on effort and not on effectiveness. That crap might play in the little leagues with 14 yr olds but not here. Read my sig, its about wins and losses!!!

It was the same deal with Haywood and his inconsistent performances the year before last. Size makes a difference. Brendan could be woeful and have a 3 pt 2 reb night in 25 minutes and yet he would have more of a positive impact on the game than a 6-9 Etan Thomas who could swing his elbows with verocity & grit on shooters from 5 ft away and might even put up respectable numbers.

As doc has pointed out quite often. This team is short. It's naturally undermanned b/c of the lack of stature at each position. It doesn't help either that our starting guards are allergic to rebounding. Putting a 6-8 or 6-9 guy in the middle is damning this team to failure, no matter the short term benefit. No matter the offensive spacing Songaila may provide, or his "defensive positioning" (does positioning even matter when you can't stop anyone in your position?)

[Cramer]

Effort, shmefort. Don't know who said it first, but never mistake activity for effectiveness.

If the choice is be scrappy and lose or have overwhelming talent coast at times but win in the end, I'll take the win. The end justifies the means as far as I'm concerned.

Ummmm, just curious, who is it with the overwhelming talent that you're talking about? Someone on this team? And who's winning?

So, most people around here want the kids to play (say Blatche, Yound, McGee). Now you want it to be reinforced to them that maximum effort isn't required if they have a little more talent than the guy behind them.

Sounds like a good long term plan to me.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Effort, shmefort. Don't know who said it first, but never mistake activity for effectiveness.

If the choice is be scrappy and lose or have overwhelming talent coast at times but win in the end, I'll take the win. The end justifies the means as far as I'm concerned.

Ummmm, just curious, who is it with the overwhelming talent that you're talking about? Someone on this team? And who's winning?

So, most people around here want the kids to play (say Blatche, Yound, McGee). Now you want it to be reinforced to them that maximum effort isn't required if they have a little more talent than the guy behind them.

Sounds like a good long term plan to me.

I wasn't thinking of anybody in particular. I just meant that a guy with huge talent can coast some time but still turn it on when going against inferior talent. Similarly, a guy with no real talent can give it all he's got 95% of the time, but still be bad enough to get beat.

I think Blatche at C is way more talented at rebounding and blocking shots than Darius.

[nate33]

At this juncture, I don't have a problem with EJ playing Songaila over Blatche if the purpose is to teach Blatche a lesson. We all know that Blatche is undisciplined. This is the time to establish boundaries of what is acceptable. Even if benching Blatche costs us a few games, it's a reasonable strategy because it'll probably help Blatche in the long run.

Where EJ has sometimes failed in the past is that he tends to keep a player in "the doghouse" for too long. Blatche screwed up. EJ disciplined him. Point made. Now, EJ has to make sure to give Blatche and opportunity to redeem himself. I hope we'll see that in the upcoming games.

[fishercob]

At this juncture, I don't have a problem with EJ playing Songaila over Blatche if the purpose is to teach Blatche a lesson. We all know that Blatche is undisciplined. This is the time to establish boundaries of what is acceptable. Even if benching Blatche costs us a few games, it's a reasonable strategy because it'll probably help Blatche in the long run.

Where EJ has sometimes failed in the past is that he tends to keep a player in "the doghouse" for too long. Blatche screwed up. EJ disciplined him. Point made. Now, EJ has to make sure to give Blatche and opportunity to redeem himself. I hope we'll see that in the upcoming games.

Man, the guy who started the "why Eddie Jordan must be fired" thread a few years back has gone soft in his old age

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

nate, is a logical thinker and most always is the voice of reason.

Except when defending the GOP, that is.

[Wizards2Lottery]

Chalk up another game pissed away by Eddie. The team was playing best with the rook, Young and Dixon but no he would live and die by the veterans.

This team does not suck. There is a lot of legit talent. The guy managing it definitely sucks at putting the best he has out there. Keep making excuses but what happened against the Bucks tonight is what has gone down under EF's reign over the past five yea

[LyricalRico]

The double standard was certainly at work last night. Apparently he is going to play the veterans regardless of how much success the team has when the younger players are in the game.

If the vets are on a roll, the vets play big minutes.
If the young players make mistakes, the vets play big minutes.
If the young players are doing really well, the vets play big minutes.

Regardless of what happens, EJ will play his favorites for better or worse. It's generally gone for the worse yet he continues to stand by it. The only way this will stop is to fire him.