Wizards Reach Deal With Saunders - 4yr/19mil

[Kanyewest]

I can't say much for his Pistons post-season resume, a lot of that seems to have to do with the difference between him and Larry Brown and how the Pistons players handled that, but he did a fine job in Minnesota IMO. The Sacramento team was still good, and they did quite well against the Lakers, but remember they also had an injury to Sam Cassell in that series which had him play injured and miss games.

Lastly, in years before that he did a pretty good job against his playoffs opponents with Garnett, Troy Hudson as the second best player, and Wally Szczerbiak just coming back from injury. They lost the the Lakers in 6 games, and their 4th leading scorer after KG, Hudson and Wally was Marc Jackson with 8.3 PPG, can't hate on that. Also season wise, if you can get a team with KG, Hudson and Rasho (with Wally playing 44/82 games) to be 5th in the league in offensive efficiency, and 16th in defensive efficiency (not good, but look at the players outside of KG), that's impressive.

I agree that the Sacramento team was good but IMO not as good as the one in 2001-02. Chris Webber just came back from major knee surgery. While the Kings acquired Brad Miller for Hedo Turkoglu and Pollard, the Kings also lost a viable big man in Keon Clark. Still, I have to give props for Flip for coaching his team to a playoff series victory.

IIRC, the T-Wolves did have home court against the Lakers in the 1st round. Taking the Lakers to 6 games spoke more to the fact that the Lakers were a much weaker team than they were in years past especially with Robert Horry struggling; the Lakers had no answer for KG on the defensive end which led them to acquire Karl Malone. Some notable role players on that T-Wolves team included Joe Smith and Rod Strickland on the 2003; while they were not great they were certainly better than what the Lakers had.

For the most part though in MInnesota, Flip did a solid job as one would expect with the talent that he had. In Detroit, the playoff series losses to Miami and Cleveland add to question whether Flip can get it done in the postseason.

On the bright side, Saunders will have the most explosive group of offensive players if they can remain healthy and/or acquire a top prospect from the draft. It remains to be seen if the Wizards can be healthy since they haven't been since 2007.

[newslowsad]

With the expected hiring of Flip Saunders, Jamison also had a great quote while explaining that things will be different for the younger players next season. "I think the coaching staff is really going to have to get them. They've been in a nice bed and breakfast the last couple of seasons," Jamison said.

[Rafael122]

So, just to recap:

Flip is the coach, Wittman and Cassell are assistant coaches. So is Randy Wittman the 'defensive coach?'

[Benjammin]

With the expected hiring of Flip Saunders, Jamison also had a great quote while explaining that things will be different for the younger players next season. "I think the coaching staff is really going to have to get them. They've been in a nice bed and breakfast the last couple of seasons," Jamison said.

I think Gil, Caron, and AJ have enjoyed the fluffy pillows and soft beds also at least when it comes to the defensive end and calling the shots on their minutes.

[long suffrin' boulez fan]

With the expected hiring of Flip Saunders, Jamison also had a great quote while explaining that things will be different for the younger players next season. "I think the coaching staff is really going to have to get them. They've been in a nice bed and breakfast the last couple of seasons," Jamison said.

I think Gil, Caron, and AJ have enjoyed the fluffy pillows and soft beds also at least when it comes to the defensive end and calling the shots on their minutes.

Perhaps AJ will be able to take early advantage of the array of scented soaps available in the showers next year during games when we need to get a stop on a late game possession.

[Kanyewest]

When you talk about the players losing respect you also have to be real and look at some of the guys that are rumored to have complained. One is a known coach killer in Rasheed, the other a disgruntled vet on the decline in Ben Wallace.

Here is what Billups had to say on the subject:

“’Sheed was just vocal and visual about his (frustration),” Billups said. “I can’t say it was all Rasheed or it was only Rasheed. But even with that, I just still feel like that should have never come into play. I feel like no matter what the coach is doing, how you feel or whatever, you can’t cheat your teammates and not give maximum effort because you’re mad at the coach.

“I think that cost us at least one championship.”

Hamilton also appears to have nice things to say http://www.detnews.com/article/20090414 ... 1127/rss13 , so I'm not quite ready to buy that Saunders was to blame for the lack of playoff success espescially in light of how poorly the team has performed since his firing.

I have to believe Billups was one of the guys who wanted Larry Brown out as indicated by this quote.

"We're going to miss Larry Brown, but so many times it was just about Larry," says Billups of the 65-year-old coach, who at first appeared on his way to the Cavaliers but wound up with the Knicks. "It was always, 'Larry did this, Larry did that,' with the result that I don't think the players got enough credit."

http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/ ... /index.htm

Interesting that Brown lost his job because all the players on the Pistons were not getting credit they felt they deserved. I would be interested to know which series/year that Wallace "cost" the Pistons a championship.

[fishercob]

Larry Brown did not "lose his job." He broke his contract and left, like he always does.

Brown has also drawn criticism for searching publicly for other jobs while still employed. This happened most recently in May 2005, when rumors surfaced that Brown would become the Cleveland Cavaliers' team president as soon as the Detroit Pistons finished their postseason. The rumor, which was not dispelled by Brown, became a major distraction as the Pistons lost to the San Antonio Spurs in seven games in the 2005 NBA Finals.

[Kanyewest]

Larry Brown did not "lose his job." He broke his contract and left, like he always does.

Brown has also drawn criticism for searching publicly for other jobs while still employed. This happened most recently in May 2005, when rumors surfaced that Brown would become the Cleveland Cavaliers' team president as soon as the Detroit Pistons finished their postseason. The rumor, which was not dispelled by Brown, became a major distraction as the Pistons lost to the San Antonio Spurs in seven games in the 2005 NBA Finals.

There are 2 sides to a story and Larry Brown tells the story differently.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketba ... ment_x.htm

"All along my goal was to coach Detroit, so I didn't look at any alternatives," Brown said. "I know I am not ready to do any management stuff. I feel confident I can still coach, but I don't know how to approach it right now. I need some time to think about what I want to do.

During the negotiations with the Pistons, Brown said he was offered a chance to stay in the Pistons organization as an executive scout. "I thought that was really unfair," Brown said. "They hired me to coach, and they asked me if I wanted to scout? That was an insult to me."

In the end, though, it appears that both sides got what they ultimately wanted. Brown, though not able to coach the Pistons as was his stated preference, will be free to coach in the NBA next season. There is nothing else binding him to the Pistons.

The Pistons, as was their apparent preference, get to move forward without having to worry about all the uncertainties regarding Brown's health.

The Pistons, primarily owner Bill Davidson, were never convinced that Brown would be able to physically handle the rigors of a full NBA season.

I don't believe the distraction was major. The Pistons were in a position to win game 7 since they had a lead with 5 minutes to go in game 7. Larry Brown had 3 years left in his contract anyways and irregardless, the Pistons should have forced Brown to stay.

[fishercob]

There are indeed two sides, and with history as my lesson I'm going to take the side that isn't Larry Brown sticking around to finish a job he signed on for.

[Kanyewest]

There are indeed two sides, and with history as my lesson I'm going to take the side that isn't Larry Brown sticking around to finish a job he signed on for.

The other side isn't that much better. Dumars and the Pistons have fired 3 coaches who ended up finishing the year with 50+ wins in a span of 5-6 years.

[og15]

I can't say much for his Pistons post-season resume, a lot of that seems to have to do with the difference between him and Larry Brown and how the Pistons players handled that, but he did a fine job in Minnesota IMO. The Sacramento team was still good, and they did quite well against the Lakers, but remember they also had an injury to Sam Cassell in that series which had him play injured and miss games.

Lastly, in years before that he did a pretty good job against his playoffs opponents with Garnett, Troy Hudson as the second best player, and Wally Szczerbiak just coming back from injury. They lost the the Lakers in 6 games, and their 4th leading scorer after KG, Hudson and Wally was Marc Jackson with 8.3 PPG, can't hate on that. Also season wise, if you can get a team with KG, Hudson and Rasho (with Wally playing 44/82 games) to be 5th in the league in offensive efficiency, and 16th in defensive efficiency (not good, but look at the players outside of KG), that's impressive.

I agree that the Sacramento team was good but IMO not as good as the one in 2001-02. Chris Webber just came back from major knee surgery. While the Kings acquired Brad Miller for Hedo Turkoglu and Pollard, the Kings also lost a viable big man in Keon Clark. Still, I have to give props for Flip for coaching his team to a playoff series victory.

IIRC, the T-Wolves did have home court against the Lakers in the 1st round. Taking the Lakers to 6 games spoke more to the fact that the Lakers were a much weaker team than they were in years past especially with Robert Horry struggling; the Lakers had no answer for KG on the defensive end which led them to acquire Karl Malone. Some notable role players on that T-Wolves team included Joe Smith and Rod Strickland on the 2003; while they were not great they were certainly better than what the Lakers had.

For the most part though in MInnesota, Flip did a solid job as one would expect with the talent that he had. In Detroit, the playoff series losses to Miami and Cleveland add to question whether Flip can get it done in the postseason.

On the bright side, Saunders will have the most explosive group of offensive players if they can remain healthy and/or acquire a top prospect from the draft. It remains to be seen if the Wizards can be healthy since they haven't been since 2007.

You're right, the Kings weren't the 2001-2002 Kings, for sure. Still a good team, but not the same caliber, might have been better that post season without Webber actually. But then again, Peja did his "regular" poor playoff performance and wasn't close to the lower level MVP candidate he was during the season, so maybe not.

The Wolves did have home court, in 02-03 but you know Shaq did his normal 67 game regular season stuff. The Wolves tried with what they had though, but Kobe dropped 32 a game on them along with Shaq's 29 PPG, they really didn't have a chance even with how well KG played against the Lakers.

....but like you said, Flip did a solid job and now has the most explosive group of offensive players (if healthy) that he has had as a coach.

[hands11]

Lets be real for a minute now. A guy like Larry Brown has a worse record because he's often called in to turn around a crap franchise. With the exception of New York he has always managed to improve the squad he landed on.

Flip Saunders hasn't often been put in that position. As a rookie coach he landed KG, one of the most highly self-motivated 2-way players in the game. And they had a pretty good run together. But Kevin Garnett won a championship without Flip; Flip can't say the same.

Here's how you measure Flip. When he left Minny, his squad fell off the table Though they'd slipped a bit his last year). Then in Detroit he inherited a .650 winning squad and actually improved their regular season % (in a weak East) but somehow lost the respect of his finicky players. Without him their squad similarly sorta fell off the table.

Flip's post season win % has 13 guys ahead of him on the list (using the 900 game cutoff). Not bad, and I like the guy, like I said, but unless you show a record of team improvement in each new job you take, the facts suggest mostly that good talent (and good health) earns a coach his wins. Ask Phil Jackson.

That said, does the addition make us better or worse? Better, no question. Does it take us over the top? By himself, no. Health, luck, talent, and sacrifices to the lotto gods might, sure,a nd Flip doesn't stand in the way of any of that. So that's a positive.

If all we got was a coach that didn't get in the way of success, then that is an improvement.

But what this does finally put to rest that shouldn't pass over is this.....

We have improved enough in talent and reputation of front office to attract a top coach.

This is something that used to be debated a lot. When we added EJ, that was the category of coach we were able to attract and he was probably at the top of that category.

Now, we are playing in a different field. Adding Flip not only proves that, it reinforces that. As long as he is treated fairly by EG and has some success, there is no reason why we wouldn't be able to pick from the same front line category of coaches available the next time we need a head coach. If and when that time comes.

Personally, I think we were here a few years ago but we kept extending EJ. I believe this has (Please Use More Appropriate Word) this franchises progress. But better late then never. Our proven vet starters are still young enough for us to make some hay out of this.

For a team and a franchise, this is a huge hurdle to get over and we seem to have arrived there. That is a not so obvious asset for this franchise that shouldn't be over looked. It's all part of the process of rebuilding a franchise.

[keynote]

But what this does finally put to rest that shouldn't pass over is this.....

We have improved enough in talent and reputation of front office to attract a top coach.

This is something that used to be debated a lot. When we added EJ, that was the category of coach we were able to attract and he was probably at the top of that category.

Now, we are playing in a different field. Adding Flip not only proves that, it reinforces that. As long as he is treated fairly by EG and has some success, there is no reason why we wouldn't be able to pick from the same front line category of coaches available the next time we need a head coach. If and when that time comes.

Hear, hear.
Regardless of what we think of Flip's specific management style, he was the most highly credentialed coach available. And, from all reports, we were able to recruit him *without substantially overpaying*. He'll get good coin, to be sure, but we're not paying a "bad team tax." That does speak to our improved standing and reputation a little bit.

To me, the next tier reputation-wise is the class of teams who are able to attract veteran FAs at below-market value. Shawn Marion is chirping about how he wants to play for a "winner." I'm not saying that I want the Wizards to go after Marion, but I look forward to the day when the Wizards are on that short list of "winners" that veterans will consider--especially those who negotiate buy-outs after the trading deadline, and are looking to hop on an express train to the playoffs.

Of course, you gotta get *good* before you reach that tier.

[closg00]

Lets be real for a minute now. A guy like Larry Brown has a worse record because he's often called in to turn around a crap franchise. With the exception of New York he has always managed to improve the squad he landed on.

Flip Saunders hasn't often been put in that position. As a rookie coach he landed KG, one of the most highly self-motivated 2-way players in the game. And they had a pretty good run together. But Kevin Garnett won a championship without Flip; Flip can't say the same.

Here's how you measure Flip. When he left Minny, his squad fell off the table Though they'd slipped a bit his last year). Then in Detroit he inherited a .650 winning squad and actually improved their regular season % (in a weak East) but somehow lost the respect of his finicky players. Without him their squad similarly sorta fell off the table.

Flip's post season win % has 13 guys ahead of him on the list (using the 900 game cutoff). Not bad, and I like the guy, like I said, but unless you show a record of team improvement in each new job you take, the facts suggest mostly that good talent (and good health) earns a coach his wins. Ask Phil Jackson.

That said, does the addition make us better or worse? Better, no question. Does it take us over the top? By himself, no. Health, luck, talent, and sacrifices to the lotto gods might, sure,a nd Flip doesn't stand in the way of any of that. So that's a positive.

If all we got was a coach that didn't get in the way of success, then that is an improvement.

But what this does finally put to rest that shouldn't pass over is this.....

We have improved enough in talent and reputation of front office to attract a top coach.

This is something that used to be debated a lot. When we added EJ, that was the category of coach we were able to attract and he was probably at the top of that category.

Now, we are playing in a different field. Adding Flip not only proves that, it reinforces that. As long as he is treated fairly by EG and has some success, there is no reason why we wouldn't be able to pick from the same front line category of coaches available the next time we need a head coach. If and when that time comes.

Personally, I think we were here more then a few years ago but we kept extending EJ. I believe this has (Please Use More Appropriate Word) this franchises progress. But better late then never. Our proves vet starts are still young enough for us to make some hay out of this.

For a team and a franchise, this is a huge hurdle to get over and we seem to have arrived there. That is a not so obvious asset for this franchise that shouldn't be over looked. Its all part of the process of rebuilding a franchise.

I would wager that opinion of our FO would be mixed amongst those who write about hoops. On talent, I agree with you there....at-least we have a core-group that would be attractive to a out-of-work coach.

[fishercob]

I care less about the opnions of those who write about hoops than of those who work in it -- players, coaches, execs, etc. Hands makes a good point that this organization was once viewed as a cracker jack outfit; this hire seems to suggest that in the the process of changing.

[clubbing_caveman]

Does anyone think that Saunders can attract a specific player to play in DC?

[Rafael122]

We don't have the room even if he could attract someone here. But to answer your question, probably not.

[fishercob]

Does anyone think that Saunders can attract a specific player to play in DC?

Sprewell? Yeah, I think so.

[JWizmentality]

I care less about the opnions of those who write about hoops than of those who work in it -- players, coaches, execs, etc. Hands makes a good point that this organization was once viewed as a cracker jack outfit; this hire seems to suggest that in the the process of changing.

We have to follow through first. I'm holding my breath.

[Kanyewest]

I care less about the opnions of those who write about hoops than of those who work in it -- players, coaches, execs, etc. Hands makes a good point that this organization was once viewed as a cracker jack outfit; this hire seems to suggest that in the the process of changing.

Signing a high profiled coaches doesn't necessarily lead to sucess like Mike Dunleavy signing with the Clippers or Larry Brown signing with the Knicks. I'm going to take what players have to say about the moves with a grain of salt, especially the current ones in Washington who have not been coached by Flip Saunders. Most players are going to be diplomatic. I can't imagine Richard Hamilton saying that Flip Saunders is a terrible coach to the national media. Remember, most players speak with a flilter unlike Gilbert Arenas.