Should We Go Big All The Way?

[dlts20]

On WPL Gil seemed to think that we would be best with Caron at the 2, AJ at the 3, and having a good PF at the 4. I have never liked that for a few reasons. 1st of all I think Caron sucks at the 2. Thats why everyone wanted to trade him this year but when Gil came back, the idiot Tap finally moved Caron back to the 3 and had Dom at the 2 and then you saw Caron dominate again down the stretch. I also dont like it because I think AJ is horrible at the 4. He can play it on O but he still wont be at his best because he'll basically catch the ball far out on the floor on every possesion and will just shoot jumpers. On D he looks horrible trying to guard the 3.

The reason why Im open to the change this year is because Flip is bringing in his O and I think Caron can play the SG spot in that O alot easier then he did in the Princeton. Plus having Gil out there will make it alot more easier for him. I still dont like the thought of AJ defending the 3 but I might could live with it. I know Im always in the complete minority when it comes to our roster. I usually love it and I dont want to make any changes because I beleive the young guys can be awesome players with Gil on the floor and they will be better next year when there older. I hate the thought of bringing in other guys that may keep them on the bench. Thats why I rather draft a Rubio.

However, Gil's talking got me to thinking. Im a Critt fan but alot of people on here dont seem to like him. As much as I like Critt, I would love to see his minutes go to NY & Dom. If we got Griff, do you think it would work to go big with a lineup of the big 3, Griff, and Wood while coming off the bench with Dom running "some" point, NY, Blatche, and McGee. Dom can dribble and pass good enough to run the 1 and Gil will play alot anyways so its not like Dom has to play 30min per game there. Or we could start Blatche and have Griff as the backup. or even if we dont draft Griff, we can still do it with Blatche starting. Do you think that would work? I think we would be big and could be pretty intimidating. I also think we could dominate the boards. I dont know about our D with AJ, espically if were running the 1-2-2 Zone that Flip likes to run. Can AJ play at the top wing of that? BTW, Im still getting scared of Gil. I like the thought of him being more of a passer but he's saying it in a very non confident way like he doesnt beleieve that he will ever be able to be explosive again and now he's going to try to play it off by saying that he's just being more of a natural PG. He sounds really unconfident when people ask him about the knee. He even said that he's starting at ground zero again. Why? That goes back to my point Ive been making the whole time. They shouldve never had pushed him hard anyways. It shouldve just been rehab and rest until now where he can start heating it up for next year. Instead he went full go just to start at ground zero again? That dont make sense. They rushed him again and I think it may have back fired

[LyricalRico]

The reason why Im open to the change this year is because Flip is bringing in his O and I think Caron can play the SG spot in that O alot easier then he did in the Princeton. Plus having Gil out there will make it alot more easier for him. I still dont like the thought of AJ defending the 3 but I might could live with it.

Hmmm...interesting. Butler definitely lacked the skills to be an interchangeable "small" in EJ's system. But you're right the Flip is going to go to a more traditional system. And if Gil is actually going to be the undisputed floor general, that would take a lot of the ball-handling and playmaking burden off of Caron.

It's also worth noting that, while Jamison can't defend 3's (or anyone for that matter) 1-on-1, in Flip's zone sets he could be a passable defender at SF because of his size. Actually, Jamison at SF in a zone defense is one situation where I could see Haywood and McGee playing together. Having both of them back there to deny shots at the rim would certainly make things easier on Jamison.

If the Wiz end up with Blake Griffin, I absolutely think you'll see a big lineup with AJ at SF and Caron at SG. IMO that's really the only thing they can do unless they trade either Butler or Jamison.

[spaceman_E]

How about we draft Griffin and trade Caron, Deshawn, Etan, James to new jersey for Vince + filler.

We take on a bigger contract and older player to dump some shorter deals and balance our lineup.
Vince becomes our shooter and finisher with Jamison manning the 3 to start things off. It would provide us options like when Wood comes out, Blake moves to 5, AJ slides to 4 and Dmac comes in at 3 to make up for the loss in rebounding and D. Mcguire could also sub in for Griffin too with AJ at the 4 and Wood at 5. And obviously just for Jamison at the 3 or Vince at the 2. In the meantime we develop Mcgee and Young to replace Carter and Haywood in time and we've got another window for a championship run.

Option B would be to move Jamison. Again I'd look for a SG and I think a deal for Stephen Jackson could work. He'd provide some needed toughness to go with Griffin and Jamison would be a good fit for the Warriors even if they like captain Jack.

While I would rather move Jamison due to age and lack of defense, Caron seems the most likely to go if we end up picking between AJ, Butler, or Griffin.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

How about we draft Griffin and trade Caron, Deshawn, Etan, James to new jersey for Vince + filler.

We take on a bigger contract and older player to dump some shorter deals and balance our lineup.
Vince becomes our shooter and finisher with Jamison manning the 3 to start things off. It would provide us options like when Wood comes out, Blake moves to 5, AJ slides to 4 and Dmac comes in at 3 to make up for the loss in rebounding and D. Mcguire could also sub in for Griffin too with AJ at the 4 and Wood at 5. And obviously just for Jamison at the 3 or Vince at the 2. In the meantime we develop Mcgee and Young to replace Carter and Haywood in time and we've got another window for a championship run.

spaceman, I'm down with this for a couple reasons: Carter can play SG or SF equally well. Also, Carter and Jamison are already tight, and I'm convinced they'd play as well or better together than do Caron and Antawn. Carter at SG rebounds well, passes well, finishes well, and can still create his own shot.

As far as age goes, Carter's the same age now as Ray Allen was about two years ago when he was traded to the Celtics. Also, even though Vince has clearly lost a bit one thing he's done the last three seasons is play in (at least) 45 more regular season games than Caron.

So, I'd do this and hope for the best the next two seasons (before Carter's window slams shut) knowing Butler's got a lot more years left.

Option B would be to move Jamison. Again I'd look for a SG and I think a deal for Stephen Jackson could work. He'd provide some needed toughness to go with Griffin and Jamison would be a good fit for the Warriors even if they like captain Jack.

While I would rather move Jamison due to age and lack of defense, Caron seems the most likely to go if we end up picking between AJ, Butler, or Griffin

Induveca and others have convinced me that Captain Jack is a gangster and a bad risk on this team. That's too huge a charactev shift going from Antawn to Jackson.

[LyricalRico]

How about we draft Griffin and trade Caron, Deshawn, Etan, James to new jersey for Vince + filler.

This deal actually doesn't help us at all financially because even thought we dump Stevenson, Carter actually makes more than Stevenson+Butler. The only deal involving that would make any sense financially would be Butler+Stevenson+Songaila for Carter+pick (or one of their young players). Even that's pretty debatable.

If you're going to go after Carter, the best thing to do is do it with young talent and expirings. Since they already have Devin Harris, I don't see NJ trading up for Rubio. Maybe for Curry or Evans if they project them as shooting guards. Would they do this:

Wizards trade: Etan, James, Young, McGuire, 2010 first
Nets trade: Vince Carter

This gives the Nets huge financial savings as well as prospects on the wings.

Lopez/Boone
Yi/Anderson
Clark(#11?)/McGuire
Young/Hayes
Harris/Dooling

This could be a really good scenario if we ended up with Rubio.

Haywood/Blatche
Jamison/Songaila
Butler/Carter
Carter/Arenas
Arenas/Rubio

That's a tight 8 man rotation where we'd have at least 2 All-Star scorers on the floor at all times.

[nate33]

Do we need a separate thread for this?

[dlts20]

There is no way that someone is going to convince that VC is better for us then Caron. He's not a better player at this stage and I still like NY. I think if you put NY with Gil then he can give us some of the things that VC gives. Plus VC has the big contract and plus he's about to start falling off. He's like another Sheed. Those guys are going down hill next year. Everyone loved Caron last year and they hated him this year but thats only because he was at the 2. When Tap finally just fliped him & Dom when Gil came back then he was a monster those last 8 games or so. He got over 25 in nearly every game. I also just like Dom & NY way more then people on here do. I think i" and thats a big if but if Gil's healthy then those 2 guys will show out next year "if" given the minutes

[dlts20]

Infact, if you want to trade someone for VC then trade AJ, not Caron

[Kanyewest]

I think getting VC would end up costing too much since Rod Thorn usually tries to rip off other teams. When the Nets traded Jason Kidd, they ended up getting Devin Harris and a 1st rounder which was excessive even before Harris was named to an all star team this season. I don't see much point for trading for Vince Carter given his age. I could only see the Wizards trading for Carter if they showed they were a competitive team by the trading the deadline next season.

I like Nick Young's potential as well. He's still rough around the edges but he has been improving. He even had more assists than turnovers this season. I would like to see how Young performs with someone like Arenas as opposed to Mike James and Javaris Crittenton. He still needs to work on the little things (ie rebounding and defense).

[TheKingOfVa360]

If we are trading anyone it will be Jamison not Butler. Jamison is on the decline and has a big contract. Butler has a very good contract for his age and production.

We don't need to go big, we need to break up the "Big 3" because they have never did anything together. Last time we advanced to the second round Larry Hughes was here not Butler.

[dlts20]

If we are trading anyone it will be Jamison not Butler. Jamison is on the decline and has a big contract. Butler has a very good contract for his age and production.

We don't need to go big, we need to break up the "Big 3" because they have never did anything together. Last time we advanced to the second round Larry Hughes was here not Butler.

now see, that is the perception around the league and its so untrue. Its the same thing Barkley said, the same thing Aldridge said, and the same thing that a ton of people think and its not true. Everytime I break it down then people start to really change there minds.

Your probably one of those guys that look at this team and think that Ernie is an idiot for keeping it together but the guy is no fool. He really doesnt think theyve had a real shot and they havent. As you know, the Frachise was terrible for years. Then Gil came and guaranteed that we would make the playoffs in his very 1st year. He was hurt basically all year and they sucked. The next year they traded Stack for AJ and Gil was healthy. They had a very good year and made the playoffs. That was the 1st time that anyone on that team basically had been in the playoffs. Everyone picked the Bulls to beat them but they beat the Bulls and lost to the eventual Champs in the 2nd round. You have some fools who think that they still havent made it out the 1st round ever. The next year Hughes left and we got Caron. Thats when we had that great series with the Cavs. We lost 4-2 but as we know, if the refs call the 2 walks on Lebron then we win that sereis. We wouldve played Detroit next who we always matched up well and gave hell because they had the best D but could never ever stop us. Sheed could never stop AJ, Prince could never stop Caron, and Gil would own Billups. The Cavs lost to them in 7 I think, maybe 6. We wouldve atleast done the same if not won.

Thats just 2 playoffs we were in. The 1st one was without Caron and it was our 1st time so it doesnt really count that much. The next year was when we were supposed to really see how good we are. What happened? The Wiz have the best record in the East. Theyve beat all the best teams like SA, PHX, Dallas, Utah, LA, and so on. They had the best record despite having a super slow start that year. Detroit made a trade to bring in Webber and everyone was sweating them. They were killing teams with Webber and we were the 2 best in the East. We played them 2 times in 4 days and beat them both times with Webber. Bill Walton, Greg Anthony, and a ton of others were saying that we were the best team in the East. Then AJ got hurt in that last Detroit game and we havent been healthy one time since. He missed a month and when he came back is when Caron broke his hand, and like a week later Gil tore up his knee. Despite those injuries we still had like a #2 seed until late in the season where we lost all our games with the injuries. We go into the playoffs without both Gil & Caron and have to play the Cavs on the road. Ofcourse we lost and everyone still counts it as a big deal because its Lebron. Then last year Gil misses all year basically, tries to come back late, and again really misses the playoffs as he straight sucked and had to bow out. Again we lose to the Cavs and still take them to 6 despite all that and again everyone makes a big deal out of it because its Lebron. This year we had a ton of injuries and again Gil missed the whole year.

Now do you see. I swear people honestly have the perception that weve had this same roster for like 15 years, have been 1st round exits every year, and we suck. Its not true. When AJ came is really when this era started. He's been here 5 years. We understandbly didnt make the playoffs this year, Gilbert hasnt played in the last 3 playoffs, and Caron wasnt even here the 1st year. Thats why Ernie has kept this team together. We havent proven that we cant get it done but thats the perception. Like Gil said, we were on the same level as the Cavs. We lost that close series and had the top seed the next year. If we dont fall apart with the big 3 all getting major injuries, then we wouldve had a top seed in the playoffs. How would we have done healthy and with the HCA in a couple of rounds. How different would it be if the Cavs had to come to us? Also think about this. The team that we did have when we lost to the Cavs is totally different now. This team is a much better team if healhty. That team was strictly the big 3. Othen then them we had the worst Offensive players in the league. That team had Arvis, JJ, the human sloth version of Wood, Etan, Taylor, Ruffin, and so on. Gil has never ever really played with NY, Dom, Blatche, Songaila, McGee, Critt, James, this version of Wood, and so on. People think we have the same team but we dont. If were healthy then we can win the East without a doubt.

People listen to that crap about D but it isnt true. Again, we were in 1st. Our D is one of the worst in the East but our O has always been far far far superior to the rest of the teams to the point where they cant keep up. Now weve added a different Wood, Caron is better on D, we have Blatche, and Dom. We didnt have none of those guys 1st. Even Darius knows how to play great position. Like Gil said on WPL, he's only played in 2 playoffs. People act like he's been in it 8 times and has never made it out the 1st. The 1st time he was in it, he was just becoming a star. He didnt even become an elite player until mid that year. The perception about us is so false that the big 3 need to be broken up and they cant win. How do you know? Youre fooling yourself if you dont think we can compete with those teams if healthy. Now if you want to argue that we need to be rebuilt because we will never be healthy then thats one thing but dont say that even at full health that we are an average team because its not true. Weve had basicaly 1 real playoffs and we werent supposed to be a serious team until that following year, which we were in 1st, and we havent been healthy since that day we were in 1st

[eltacoman]

Vince is good but he is kind of is to risky to give up on young dmac .... he could turn out to be the wizards Mcgrady of the Rockets i would trade a vet for a vet ... maybe Jamison for Vince

[eltacoman]

wow
Blake Griffin will make us Contenders

Stars..........
Gilbert
Caron
Jamison
Blake
Wood

young energy & vets reserves
Critt.....Mike
Nick.....Deshawn
Dmac... ..31st
Blatch....Song
Mcgee....Etan

count me down with going BIG All The Way GIl Got to give it a shot

[Dat2U]

On WPL Gil seemed to think that we would be best with Caron at the 2, AJ at the 3, and having a good PF at the 4. I have never liked that for a few reasons. 1st of all I think Caron sucks at the 2. Thats why everyone wanted to trade him this year but when Gil came back, the idiot Tap finally moved Caron back to the 3 and had Dom at the 2 and then you saw Caron dominate again down the stretch. I also dont like it because I think AJ is horrible at the 4. He can play it on O but he still wont be at his best because he'll basically catch the ball far out on the floor on every possesion and will just shoot jumpers. On D he looks horrible trying to guard the 3.

The reason why Im open to the change this year is because Flip is bringing in his O and I think Caron can play the SG spot in that O alot easier then he did in the Princeton. Plus having Gil out there will make it alot more easier for him. I still dont like the thought of AJ defending the 3 but I might could live with it.

I don't think it works. We become too slow on the perimeter. Defensively, Caron & Antawn aren't quick enough to stay with 2s or 3s respectively. Rotations would be slow. Baseline to baseline we'd be one of the slower teams in the league. Who would guard the likes Pierce, LeBron, Carmelo, D-Wade, Gerald Wallace etc, etc? We'd get tourched nightly by perimeter players.

Offensively, we've seen Caron's inability to break down 2s off the dribble, he's just not quick enough. He becomes a jump shooter at that point. He's an all-star quality SF but he's a run-of-the-mill SG.

The easiest or smartest move to make would be to trade Jamison for an SG. It makes no sense to trade Caron for VC and keep Jamison because it really shortens the team's window for success. And still, even with VC, this team isn't contender material imo. By trading Jamison, we become younger and hopefully more athletic and less of a jump shooting team. I appreciate Jamison's effort offensively and on the boards but he'll be 33 yrs old soon, his decline is inevitable, it at some point you have to pull the trigger on a move. We just aren't going to be a legit contender before Jamison is totally past his prime. It's time to move on.

[TheSecretWeapon]

Only way this might work would be if the Wiz become a pure zone team. Even then it's dubious because the perimeter defenders still need to be able to funnel penetration to help areas. If your perimeter defenders don't have sufficient quicks, the force rules don't work and the defense is overrun.

[Kanyewest]

Everyone picked the Bulls to beat them but they beat the Bulls and lost to the eventual Champs in the 2nd round. [/b]

The Bulls/Wizards was a tossup and if anything the Wizards were favored. IIRC, Eddy Curry and Luol Deng were out with injuries. The expert's prognosistics change once the Wizards were done 0-2 but the Wizards managed to pull even. BTW, San Antonio won the championship in 2005; the Miami team that ended up winning the championship did so with a somewhat different roster (James Posey, Antoine Walker, Jason Williams) but were no slouches as they lost to the a Larry Brown's Pistons team in 7 games.

I agree with the theme of your response. I would also add that Caron Butler was playing injured in 2006 and wasn't an all star caliber player yet. The Wizards simply haven't seen what their best 3 players can do when they were healthy.

The real question is if Gilbert Arenas will ever be 100%. Of course the Wizards shouldn't be defined as the big 3, other players may need to step up. The Wizards also have to to get other guys involved like Haywood, Young, D-Mac, etc if they ever want to contend to get deep in the playoffs.

[spaceman_E]

If we are trading anyone it will be Jamison not Butler. Jamison is on the decline and has a big contract. Butler has a very good contract for his age and production.

While I agree with your point and already said so, that just isn't how the team thinks. Jamison is tighter with ownership and more respected as a vet than Caron. While we will not just give Caron away and don't even really have to trade him, I still think we would trade Caron before we moved AJ if it was going to be done this offseason.