Flip Saunders Appreciation Thread

Ed Wood · Post #61 » by **Ed Wood** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 9:42 pm

Well I can't speak for everyone else and I never felt the burning hate for Jordan that scorched the threads of this forum in past years I personally just despise every minute of DeShawn Stevenson and his beard and his leg warmers or whatever those are. I'd love to see more JaVale and more Andray and I'd love to see Jamison on the bench during important defensive possessions, but nothing ignites my passions and wounds my soul half as much even a solitary dumb minute of bad DeShawn Stevenson basketball.

And if he had played Andray and Brendan in crunch time...
And if he had let JaVale play through mistakes...
And if he had sat Gil and Antawn for defensive lapses, or Caron for dumb shots...
But if he had only nailed DeShawn's butt to the bench, dayenu.

fishercob · Post #62 » by **fishercob** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 9:48 pm

Ed Wood wrote:Well I can't speak for everyone else and I never felt the burning hate for Jordan that scorched the threads of this forum in past years I personally just despise every minute of DeShawn Stevenson and his beard and his leg warmers or whatever those are. I'd love to see more JaVale and more Andray and I'd love to see Jamison on the bench during important defensive possessions, but nothing ignites my passions and wounds my soul half as much even a solitary dumb minute of bad DeShawn Stevenson basketball.

And if he had played Andray and Brendan in crunch time...
And if he had let JaVale play through mistakes...
And if he had sat Gil and Antawn for defensive lapses, or Caron for dumb shots...
But if he had only nailed DeShawn's butt to the bench, dayenu.

Post #63 » by **miller31time** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 10:06 pm

Ed Wood wrote:Well I can't speak for everyone else and I never felt the burning hate for Jordan that scorched the threads of this forum in past years I personally just despise every minute of DeShawn Stevenson and his beard and his leg warmers or whatever those are. I'd love to see more JaVale and more Andray and I'd love to see Jamison on the bench during important defensive possessions, but nothing ignites my passions and wounds my soul half as much even a solitary dumb minute of bad DeShawn Stevenson basketball.

And if he had played Andray and Brendan in crunch time...
And if he had let JaVale play through mistakes...
And if he had sat Gil and Antawn for defensive lapses, or Caron for dumb shots...
But if he had only nailed DeShawn's butt to the bench, dayenu.

Debrick collecting an NBA paycheck should be illegal.

Chocolate City Jordanaire · Post #64 » by **Chocolate City Jordanaire** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 10:32 pm

LyricalRico wrote:It's amazing that quotes from as recent as 12/10 are about Flip "getting it" and the offense being better. Now, 6 days later, people are pining for the days of EJ. Unbelievable.

I'm not pining for EJ. He's taking his lumps in Philly.

I just misread the purge quote and thought it was from the last couple days. I thought he was in effect saying all the recent losses are because these guys were losers last season.

I do think it's a waste of time and energy to try and teach old dogs new tricks, and I do suspect Flip's forcing his system on the players.

Post #65 » by **LyricalRico** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 11:42 pm

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:I do suspect Flip's forcing his system on the players.

Of course he is - HE'S THE HEAD COACH! People talk about the Skins needing a guy like Bill Cowher. Why? Because he lets asks the players nicely what system they want to run? No, because he imposes his philosophy on a team and the players that don't like it get replaced. And we want that because his philosophy is proven to work.

Same with Flip. He's a head coach with a winning record in this league and a system that has been proven to work in the NBA. Flip should absolutely be imposing that system on this team and if they don't want to respond properly, they need to find new players who will respond.

no D in Hibachi · Post #66 » by **no D in Hibachi** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:50 am

One of the biggest problems with Joe Gibbs part duex was that he failed to utilize his players to maximize their strengths. He focused on system rather than his players skills. CP average 5.5 yards per carry as the tailback in Denver, however, Gibbs ran CP like he was Riggo and basically made CP change his game to the detriment of the team. CP never averaged more than 4.3 yards per carry as a Skin and really has been a mediocre tailback for a majority of his time in Washington when he was absolutely phenomenal in Denver.

Good coaches, such as Cowher, utilize players to their strength and alter their strategy for the benefit of the team. When Barry Foster and Jerome Bettis were in Pittsburgh Cowher pounded the ball between the tackles. When he had Willie Parker he realized that Parker had exceptional speed and totally revamped his running game by having way more off-tackle runs, pitches, and running outside the tackle box. Had Cowher been prideful and insist that Parker run between the tackles I doubt the Steelers would have won the Super Bowl in 2005.

Flip needs to realize that some of his best players aren't really responding to his system and maybe he should alter it to help the effectiveness of everyone, ala Caron.

Post #67 » by **LyricalRico** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 1:02 am

^ Well, there's a difference between tweaking the system or adding a "wrinkle" or two for a certain guy. But you can't revamp your entire philosophy every time you get a player who doesn't want to get on board. If what you do works and a guy doesn't fit in, replace him with somebody who can.

The only exception would be a transcendent talent, which the Wizards don't have now that Gil isn't who he used to be.

Post #68 » by **nate33** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 2:53 am

I think Flip has modified his philosophy a bit recently. Early on, Flip forced the team to set up the offense and use the entire shot clock on every possession. Over the past few games, the Wizards have been pushing the ball and looking for running opportunities. I guess Flip realized that he has players that can make plays in the open floor so he may as well take advantage. I think that's part of the reason Arenas has played better lately.

pancakes3 · Post #69 » by **pancakes3** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:14 pm

LyricalRico wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:I do suspect Flip's forcing his system on the players.

Of course he is - HE'S THE HEAD COACH! People talk about the Skins needing a guy like Bill Cowher. Why? Because he lets asks the players nicely what system they want to run? No, because he imposes his philosophy on a team and the players that don't like it get replaced. And we want that because his philosophy is proven to work.

Same with Flip. He's a head coach with a winning record in this league and a system that has been proven to work in the NBA. Flip should absolutely be imposing that system on this team and if they don't want to respond properly, they need to find new players who will respond.

mixing football and basketball coaching philosophies is dangerous.

Basketball is much moreso a game of matchups rather than execution. in football offense is predicated on a set, designned play. coaching plays a tremendous role in the designing, preparation, and execution of that play. in (NBA) basketball, offense is relegated to a philosophy. work inside/out, outside/in, creating space, screening for a specific player, etc. a lot less preparation and a lot more dependent on the talent.

defensively, the philosophy vs system aspect is even more applicable. there are guidelines as to what to do regarding help defense and zone assignments but unlike football, the execution is a lot less structured (no set plays).

i think offensively, the philosophy isn't maximizing our players' potential and a good head coach should have figured that out in training camp. our problem mainly stems from butler. he's clearly not doing what flip needs him to do. the problem is we have no alternatives. until miller comes back from his injury, there are no alternatives at SF. As much as we hope, Dom simply isn't good enough. naturally we all realize this and that's why "bench him" chants have given way to "trade him" chants. either way, it's a boatload of bellyaching that doesn't amount to a hill of beans (wow. i really channeled my inner HS football coach with that).

ANYWAY.... what i originally inteded to post here was - After losing what... 6 games in a row by the slimmest of margins? the finger of blame is easy to follow. Coaching and closing. with our talent (read: payroll) we should be better than our record. we're losing to less talented teams, which means we're being outcoached. bad substitution patterns allow for opposing 2nd units to make up deficits and get their teams back into the game. mismanaged timeouts fail to stop those runs before they actually get back into the game. then the fact that we're losing CLOSE games means that our closers - Gil and AJ - are not getting it done. for all their offensive prowess, they fail to score more points than the other guys. they aren't being clutch and they're only marketbable skill - putting the ball through the hoop - is being exposed as not that marketable.

also, our brand of basketball is offensive to the game. no movement, tons of isos, a majority of the shots coming from 15ft and out, contested shots, tunnel vision... just really the epitome of selfish American basketball that landed us 6th place finishes in FIBA WC's. Gil is nothing more than 2002 starbury at this point which we should have seen coming given our HC. we were so excited at the prospect of "defense" that we didn't realize that billups didn't become billups until after he got to Detroit.

i think i might say it... my first legitimate coach bash... this goes against all my natural instincts.... Fire Flip?

Post #70 » by **LyricalRico** » Sat Dec 19, 2009 6:54 pm

Saunders brought his 700-page playbook to the District but decided the best approach with the Wizards simply would be to install a base system that gives his players the freedom to freestyle - within reason.

That, he believed, would allow Gilbert Arenas to reacclimate himself to the NBA after a two-year, three-surgery layoff and regain the chemistry he had with Caron Butler and Antawn Jamison. The strategy also would allow the trio to more quickly return to their productive ways rather than being slowed by having to overthink everything.

But with losses mounting - six straight by a total of 14 points - and poor execution and decision-making to blame, Saunders is beginning to rethink the freedom he gives his players.

"I think I'm going to have to rein it in," Saunders said during Friday morning's shootaround before the Wizards faced Golden State. "In all my years of coaching - and this is CBA and 15 seasons in the NBA - I have never had to yell at a player for taking bad shots in a game - until this year.

"I think there's no question, it's a Catch-22. You try to give them their freedom so they find their confidence. But then when you have to keep talking to them about what's a good shot and what's a bad shot, you get to the point where you say, 'To hell with the confidence. You have to understand.' "

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/200 ... ds-parade/

:clap:

Flip = THE MAN

crackhed · Post #71 » by **crackhed** » Sat Dec 19, 2009 8:02 pm

i dont know... still a lotta talk about offense, nothing said about challenging the players on defensive side.

ErikChowbay023 · Post #72 » by **ErikChowbay023** » Sat Dec 19, 2009 11:03 pm

Im assuming that they know that we have to improve on defense....We even though still struggling this year, are a much better defensive team than when Eddie was coaching...

closg00 · Post #73 » by **closg00** » Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:21 am

Here Flip, you get a cookie for benching the starters in the 3rd and benching DeSuck.

Post #74 » by **LyricalRico** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:41 am

Flip's post-game presser was awesome! Changes are on the way!

:rockon:

closg00 · Post #75 » by **closg00** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:48 am

LyricalRico wrote:Flip's post-game presser was awesome! Changes are on the way!

I will applaud loudly if this actually happens.

newslowsad · Post #76 » by **newslowsad** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 4:26 am

I still believe in Flip, just not this team the way it is currently constructed.

eltacoman · Post #77 » by **eltacoman** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 4:47 am

i have been hoping for us to lose since the last 5 games :evil:

just because this is what needed to be happen and said by flippin flip ... our head coach calling out our lousy D could be a turning point for our team ... i hope Wood Mcgee Dmac Nick Foye will be our starting line now Common Mcgee take over this team and do it with defense kid flourish man .... I bet we beat the Spurs with the Big three coming off the bench

long suffrin' boulez fan · Post #78 » by **long suffrin' boulez fan** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 3:47 pm

OK Flip, Flop, Fail. Now put your money where your mouth is. There are potentially decent defenders on the roster... they are just seldom on the floor together.

Show me a box score with AJ getting 15 minutes and Blatche getting 33 or so, and I'll start to care again.

Munson79rip · Post #79 » by **Munson79rip** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 3:47 pm

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 03298.html

"This team needs a mind-set change," Saunders said. "This team, for the last five years has been known as one of the worst defensive teams in the league. We could take five guys in this room out here and we could have a chance. I think I can go out there on the floor and take anybody on the team, one-on-one at [54] years old, and drive right around them. They can't guard anybody."

"Until our guys decide that it hurts when teams score on you, we've got no chance," he said. "We're kidding ourselves."

:clap:

I have to applaud the man for trying, nothing he says here or in the article is untrue. Trying to break 5 years of bad habits isn't going to be done in 30 games. Changes are coming, time will tell how signifigant.

Munson79rip · Post #80 » by **Munson79rip** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 3:49 pm

long suffrin' boulez fan wrote:OK Flip, Flop, Fail. Now put your money where your mouth is. There are potentially decent defenders on the roster... they are just seldom on the floor together.

Show me a box score with AJ getting 15 minutes and Blatche getting 33 or so, and I'll start to care again.

IMO benching Jamison or Butler only reduces their trade value. If either are not moved by the trade deadline I'd be shocked if both were still in the starting lineup come March.