Wiz trade 5th pick to Minnesota

[hands11]

Wow...

I was just looking over the draft to see how many top 5 picks over the last 20 year have won a title.

Man.. look at Orlando... they not only got three #1s but look who was available in each.

1992 1.1 Magic Shaquille ONeal
1993 1.1 Magic Chris Webber Traded to Golden State for the rights to Anfernee Hardaway (#3) and three future firsts
2004 1.1 Magic Dwight Howard

And still no title. Hell, they couldn't even keep Shaq around..

They did at least make the finals twice with all that gold...

NBA 1995 Playoffs:
Lost NBA Finals (0-4) versus Houston Rockets
http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1995-nba-finals-rockets-vs-magic.html

NBA 2009 Playoffs:
Lost NBA Finals (1-4) versus Los Angeles Lakers
http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2009-nba-finals-magic-vs-lakers.html

Wow.. All that luck and only 1 finals game won to show for it.

And dumb enough to take Gils contract from us.. wow.

Now they are back fishing in the lottery again. I actually like a lot of player there like VO. And they traded for Nic V and T Harris. But I don't see any Shaq there. But if they can get out of their own way, they can get back to the playoffs. At least they tanked and reloaded with the young prospects and finally got their cap down. Maybe they can luck into drawing a big name home.

Anthony Davis was born in Chicago.. Yikes.. thats not good.
Stephen Curry was born in Akron, OH... Oh nooooo.

2013 1.2 Magic Victor Oladipo
2014 1.4 Magic Aaron Gordon
2014 1.10 Magic Elfrid Payton
2015 1.05 Magic ???

[Ruzious]

I can't argue with Hands' point on luck. When big luck comes (perhaps in the initials KD) and you show just enough competence in that time frame, championships can be won.

[Dat2U]

Hands, no matter how you look at it, the Wiz had nothing to show for the 5th pick in the draft - just 1 year later. And they basically did the same thing a few years later with Vesely. The word that should come to mind is "incompetence". The payoff is that we're an average team in the NBA, and we don't know what the future holds.

True... There has been incompetence...

My point is... There is lot of that in the NBA.. That doesn't stop you from winning titles.

GS themselves have had a ton of it and I outlined a good bit of it already. They are doing much better under their new ownership though.

Same with Cleveland. Tons of incompetence. Tons.

And both those teams where in the finals.

And if not for dumb luck of Love having his shoulder pulled out and Kyrie getting injured, Cleveland would have likely won the title. Why ? Because the real MVP of that series is on CLE. And GSs road to a title was very lucky. They had excellent health and I think every team they played had their PG injured. Don't get me wrong. I think they have a real nice team and I really like Steve as the HC, but even that wouldn't have been enough.

Now I will admit, Cleveland doesn't even follow the good owner formula. In their case, luck accounts for all of it because even that can't hold back a team when one of the best players in the history of the game decides he wants to come home. He walked on the team. It cost them nothing but his salary. And its not like they attracted him back. They buried his freakn jersey when he left. The owner publicly slandered him. LOL

Luck in getting the #1 and then LeBrons being in that draft.
Luck in LeBron deciding to come home
Luck in getting 3 more #1 in 8 years which gave them the assets that was a part of LeBron comeing home. When has that ever happened ?

That's an insane amount of luck. I can hardly think of thing they did right. Luck accounts for pretty much all of it. In spite of themselves.

I mean come on, they drafted Anthony Freakn Bennett with the #1.. talk about incompetence. You think their GM is why they were in the finals and took it to game 6 ? No. It was because of LeBron the player and LeBron the GM. Hell and LeBron the HC.

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-draft-history/?eyear=2014&syear=1957&team=Cavaliers

And the Clippers.. come on.. they were one of the worst teams in the league and made a ton of incompetence blunders. But they lucked into the #1 when they lucked into B Griffin. CP3 ? Wasn't he supposed in be in LA ? And they still aren't good enough to win a title.

http://www.businessinsider.com/david-stern-veto-destroyed-lakers-2013-7

Portland.. They have a ton of bad luck. Oden could have been on of those dominate players but couldn't stay healthy. Then Brandon Roy as well. Horrible luck. They had some good luck but the bad luck over road it.

In all the cases you gave above, A GM was fired. Someone was held accountable. We have the fifth longest tenured GM in the NBA...and the guys ahead of him and the next one (6th - Donny Nelson) all have championship rings.

[closg00]

sleight of hand
1. ways of deceiving people which you need skill to do Some mathematical sleight of hand was required to make the figures add up.
2. quick, clever movements of your hands, especially when performing magic tricks With impressive sleight of hand he produced two pigeons out of his top hat.

Hands has updated his "sleight of hands11" (TM) for protecting Ernie by adding and waving around "Luck" in his defense argument.One can be dazzled by a sleight-of-hand trick momentarily, but one knows that it is all a trick.

Review Ernie Grunfelds non-lottery draft record since he's been hanging around as a GM through multiple owners for a quarter century. HIS choices, HIS decisions and HIS use of draft assets is horrific, the results, always mediocre.

Ernie Grunfeld had a bit of "bad luck" when HE chose to draft Jan Veseley"? when HE rushed to give Eric Maynor and 2-year contract?, when HE said knew Curry would be available, but he preferred a 1-year Foye/Miller rental instead? etc, etc. HIS decisions/choices regardless of owners resulted in a no-confidence vote below.

When given the opportunity to caste a secret ballet on who should be considered for GM of this year, how did Ernie do?

Spoiler:

2014-15 NBA Executive of the Year Voting Results
NAME / TEAM 1st (5 pts) 2nd (3 pts) 3rd (1 pt) TOTAL
Bob Myers, Golden State 13 5 2 82
David Griffin, Cleveland 8 7 8 69
Mike Budenholzer, Atlanta 4 5 1 36
Danny Ainge, Boston 1 3 2 16
Gar Forman, Chicago 1 2 3 14
Neil Olshey, Portland 2 1 1 14
Daryl Morey, Houston -- 2 2 8
Stan Van Gundy, Detroit 1 -- -- 5
Sam Presti, Oklahoma City -- 1 1 4
Dell Demps, New Orleans -- -- 3 3
Flip Saunders, Minnesota -- 1 -- 3
John Hammond, Milwaukee -- 1 -- 3
Mitch Kupchak, L.A. Lakers -- 1 -- 3
Sam Hinkie, Philadelphia -- 1 -- 3
Chris Wallace, Memphis -- -- 2 2
Dennis Lindsey, Utah -- -- 2 2
R.C. Buford, San Antonio -- -- 2 2
Masai Ujiri, Toronto -- -- 1 1

"Luck" shouldn't be an excuse to keep Ernie Grunfeld around at-all.

[hands11]

sleight of hand
1. ways of deceiving people which you need skill to do Some mathematical sleight of hand was required to make the figures add up.
2. quick, clever movements of your hands, especially when performing magic tricks With impressive sleight of hand he produced two pigeons out of his top hat.

Hands has updated his "sleight of hands11" (TM) for protecting Ernie by adding and waving around "Luck" in his defense argument.One can be dazzled by a sleight-of-hand trick momentarily, but one knows that it is all a trick.

Review Ernie Grunfelds non-lottery draft record since he's been hanging around as a GM through multiple owners for a quarter century. HIS choices, HIS decisions and HIS use of draft assets is horrific, the results, always mediocre.

Ernie Grunfeld had a bit of "bad luck" when HE chose to draft Jan Veseley"? when HE rushed to give Eric Maynor and 2-year contract?, when HE said knew Curry would be available, but he preferred a 1-year Foye/Miller rental instead? etc, etc. HIS decisions/choices regardless of owners resulted in a no-confidence vote below.

When given the opportunity to caste a secret ballet on who should be considered for GM of this year, how did Ernie do?

Spoiler:

2014-15 NBA Executive of the Year Voting Results
NAME / TEAM 1st (5 pts) 2nd (3 pts) 3rd (1 pt) TOTAL
Bob Myers, Golden State 13 5 2 82
David Griffin, Cleveland 8 7 8 69
Mike Budenholzer, Atlanta 4 5 1 36
Danny Ainge, Boston 1 3 2 16
Gar Forman, Chicago 1 2 3 14
Neil Olshey, Portland 2 1 1 14
Daryl Morey, Houston -- 2 2 8
Stan Van Gundy, Detroit 1 -- -- 5
Sam Presti, Oklahoma City -- 1 1 4
Dell Demps, New Orleans -- -- 3 3
Flip Saunders, Minnesota -- 1 -- 3
John Hammond, Milwaukee -- 1 -- 3
Mitch Kupchak, L.A. Lakers -- 1 -- 3
Sam Hinkie, Philadelphia -- 1 -- 3
Chris Wallace, Memphis -- -- 2 2
Dennis Lindsey, Utah -- -- 2 2
R.C. Buford, San Antonio -- -- 2 2
Masai Ujiri, Toronto -- -- 1 1

"Luck" shouldn't be an excuse to keep Ernie Grunfeld around at-all.

Closg... it has nothing to do with EG.. you are missing the entire point which I supported with plenty of fact.

And stop with the name calling. Post about the topic.
And at no point did I defend EG so stop twisting the topic stuff. This has to do with GMs in general and winning titles.

My point is/was... they are not nearly as important as a good owner and luck and even luck overides having a good owner.

Are you arguing that CLE has a great GM and that is why they made the finals ? Or that their great GM landed them LeBron ? Do you believe a CLE team that took GS 6 games wouldn't have won it all if they had Kyrie and Love to assist LeBron ?

I said, there are better GM then others that make better calculated moves. Its just.. it doesn't really matter as much as people pretend when compared to LUCK.

[closg00]

As Dat pointed out, EG is the only GM that hasn't been fired in that group you listed that turned things around. There is no basis for trusting him with drafting and decision-making any further.


#FireErnie ~ Because he believed Stephen Curry couldn't help us and Jan Vesely could.

[hands11]

As Dat pointed out, EG is the only GM that hasn't been fired in that group you listed that turned things around. There is no basis for trusting him with drafting and decision-making any further.


#FireErnie ~ Because he believed Stephen Curry couldn't help us and Jan Vesely could.

And my point is, it doesn't really matter regarding winning a titles. Either Wall, Beal or Otto are going to became LeBron, KD, A Davis and maybe a few second line runner up names or you have to land that player. GS does not win that title except for luck of injured players all through the playoffs and amazing health on their side. CLE would have won that.

That is how the NBA works.

If Wall doesn't break his hand, we beat ATL. Then who knows.

The old owner had them trade away a pick that could have been Curry, though most here talked about Rubio, not Curry. Bad move.

So what ? We got Wall the next year and started a proper tank rebuild per our new owner. Something our old owner would never do. And we got Wall. Then Beal. Then Otto. They busted on Ves.

Now you need LUCK which they are ready to receive if KD decides to come home because they have planned for it. When luck knocks, be ready to answer.

And if that happens, guess who will be at the top of that list you just posted ?

Those lists are mostly backward looking.

But you know who's name should be listed if it happens. Ted and LUCK

[Dat2U]

As Dat pointed out, EG is the only GM that hasn't been fired in that group you listed that turned things around. There is no basis for trusting him with drafting and decision-making any further.


#FireErnie ~ Because he believed Stephen Curry couldn't help us and Jan Vesely could.

And my point is, it doesn't really matter regarding winning a titles. Either Wall, Beal or Otto are going to became LeBron, KD, A Davis and maybe a few second line runner up names or you have to land that player. GS does not win that title except for luck of injured players all through the playoffs and amazing health on their side. CLE would have won that.

That is how the NBA works.

If Wall doesn't break his hand, we beat ATL. Then who knows.

The old owner had them trade away a pick that could have been Curry, though most here talked about Rubio, not Curry. Bad move.

So what ? We got Wall the next year and started a proper tank rebuild per our new owner. Something our old owner would never do. And we got Wall. Then Beal. Then Otto. They busted on Ves.

Now you need LUCK which they are ready to receive if KD decides to come home because they have planned for it. When luck knocks, be ready to answer.

And if that happens, guess who will be at the top of that list you just posted ?

Those lists are mostly backward looking.

But you know who's name should be listed if it happens. Ted and LUCK

Your logic makes my head hurt. Not because it doesn't make sense. Because it's such a BS loser mentality. You think Golden State's GM was just hoping to get lucky when they fired Mark Jackson after having the franchise's most successful coaching tenure to that point?

[Kanyewest]

You have to wonder if Mark Jackson would still be around if he didn't bully his assistants and wasn't a preacher on the side. Although to be fair to Jackson, having a healthy Bogut and guys like Livingston and Barbosa as opposed to Jordan Crawford would have gone a long way to making the Warriors a contender.

[I_Like_Dirt]

Closg... it has nothing to do with EG.. you are missing the entire point which I supported with plenty of fact.

And stop with the name calling. Post about the topic.
And at no point did I defend EG so stop twisting the topic stuff. This has to do with GMs in general and winning titles.

My point is/was... they are not nearly as important as a good owner and luck and even luck overides having a good owner.

Are you arguing that CLE has a great GM and that is why they made the finals ? Or that their great GM landed them LeBron ? Do you believe a CLE team that took GS 6 games wouldn't have won it all if they had Kyrie and Love to assist LeBron ?

I said, there are better GM then others that make better calculated moves. Its just.. it doesn't really matter as much as people pretend when compared to LUCK.

Color me curious, but while we can split hairs over who is responsible for what, the reality is that in each individual circumstance in the NBA, there are many different people and factors at play. But really, what is your criteria for the making of a good GM, exactly? Is it doing what the owner asks? Because if so, most owners don't ask GMs to build teams that lose more often than they win and never win 50 games or more. This is a serious question, because really, that's the key to this debate. But if, as you suggest, a GM is largely irrelevant, then the argument becomes that an owner should simply hire some schmuck off the streets, or even a drinking bird, who would do the job for less than the going rate in NBA circles right now and save your self some money, or at least hire a friend or family member and at least make it a patronage appointment or something like that. Heck, hire Kevin Durant's mom and pay her several million per year. Sure luck matters, but when a guy goes on a prolonged streak of bad luck with no good luck on the other side, eventually you need to start asking yourself what factors actually are in your control and what factors aren't.

This doesn't mean that you then fire Ernie without thinking about it, but there's a reason why the eastern conference is routinely outclassed by the west, and why teams like the Rockets and Blazers have torn things down and relatively quickly built things back up to win more than 50 games in the span that most eastern conference teams haven't even sniffed 50 wins. It's more than just luck.

[FAH1223]

hands doesn't want to blame Grunfail for the disasters of 2009 and 2011 and basically saying that you need luck not a great GM to build a winner.

Very dangerous logic.

Any other franchise and this guy would have been fired in 2010 when we got the #1 overall pick and new owner with a clean cap to start a rebuild.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

You have to wonder if Mark Jackson would still be around if he didn't bully his assistants and wasn't a preacher on the side. Although to be fair to Jackson, having a healthy Bogut and guys like Livingston and Barbosa as opposed to Jordan Crawford would have gone a long way to making the Warriors a contender.

There is a huge difference between being pious, intolerant, hypocritical, and bigoted vs being a "preacher".

I get sick of faith bashers who smugly disregard Christian values. It's not wrong to be a Christian, have Christian values, or preach. You don't have to agree but I don't have to continue to be politically correct.

Nine people who were in bible study were killed Wednesday. A couple of them were preachers. KW, I respect the calling they adhered to.

Mark Jackson is one man who shouldn't be lumped into your hatred of preachers. If you could be more specific without castigating a faith and all preachers I would appreciate it.

[Kanyewest]

You have to wonder if Mark Jackson would still be around if he didn't bully his assistants and wasn't a preacher on the side. Although to be fair to Jackson, having a healthy Bogut and guys like Livingston and Barbosa as opposed to Jordan Crawford would have gone a long way to making the Warriors a contender.

There is a huge difference between being pious, intolerant, hypocritical, and bigoted vs being a "preacher".

I get sick of faith bashers who smugly disregard Christian values. It's not wrong to be a Christian, have Christian values, or preach. You don't have to agree but I don't have to continue to be politically correct.

Nine people who were in bible study were killed Wednesday. A couple of them were preachers. KW, I respect the calling they adhered to.

Mark Jackson is one man who shouldn't be lumped into your hatred of preachers. If you could be more specific without castigating a faith and all preachers I would appreciate it.

I don't have anything against Jackson being a preacher (although I do question some of his views). But it certainly may have played a big role why Golden State decided to fire him which is why I mentioned it. Management advised him to stop preaching while he was the head coach of the Warriors which Jackson declined to.

[hands11]

You have to wonder if Mark Jackson would still be around if he didn't bully his assistants and wasn't a preacher on the side. Although to be fair to Jackson, having a healthy Bogut and guys like Livingston and Barbosa as opposed to Jordan Crawford would have gone a long way to making the Warriors a contender.

Again.. there are better GMs then others. I said that. A good GM gets the best right coach for the team at the right time.
GS did that. Props to them.

They can draft better. Trade better. But most of it won't matter when compared to some good old fashion luck.

And I just hope who ever is bringing up the coach thing isn't one of the people that argued that coaching doesn't matter. It does matter. But like most things, there isn't a black and white answer. It matters on the margin. And different kinds of coaches matter at different stages. Marc was good for GS to get their were he did. He instilled defense. Kerr was the finisher.

But, CLE would have still beaten GS if Lebron had any legit help namely the other two best players on the team. GS has the better GM and coach. CLE the better luck because 3 number #1 and Lebron coming home.

And a lot of the really horrible trades that robbed terrible front offices doesn't happen anymore by rules.. Can't trade consecutive firsts and lots of times the future firsts are protected. What the Lakers pulled off the get Magic and Worthy doesn't really happen anymore. Speaking of the Lakers. Kobe forced himself there. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar did as well.

But even a horrible owner and front office can totally screw themselves if they try hard enough.. See BRK and the NYK.

[hands11]

Closg... it has nothing to do with EG.. you are missing the entire point which I supported with plenty of fact.

And stop with the name calling. Post about the topic.
And at no point did I defend EG so stop twisting the topic stuff. This has to do with GMs in general and winning titles.

My point is/was... they are not nearly as important as a good owner and luck and even luck overides having a good owner.

Are you arguing that CLE has a great GM and that is why they made the finals ? Or that their great GM landed them LeBron ? Do you believe a CLE team that took GS 6 games wouldn't have won it all if they had Kyrie and Love to assist LeBron ?

I said, there are better GM then others that make better calculated moves. Its just.. it doesn't really matter as much as people pretend when compared to LUCK.

Color me curious, but while we can split hairs over who is responsible for what, the reality is that in each individual circumstance in the NBA, there are many different people and factors at play. But really, what is your criteria for the making of a good GM, exactly? Is it doing what the owner asks? Because if so, most owners don't ask GMs to build teams that lose more often than they win and never win 50 games or more. This is a serious question, because really, that's the key to this debate. But if, as you suggest, a GM is largely irrelevant, then the argument becomes that an owner should simply hire some schmuck off the streets, or even a drinking bird, who would do the job for less than the going rate in NBA circles right now and save your self some money, or at least hire a friend or family member and at least make it a patronage appointment or something like that. Heck, hire Kevin Durant's mom and pay her several million per year. Sure luck matters, but when a guy goes on a prolonged streak of bad luck with no good luck on the other side, eventually you need to start asking yourself what factors actually are in your control and what factors aren't.

This doesn't mean that you then fire Ernie without thinking about it, but there's a reason why the eastern conference is routinely outclassed by the west, and why teams like the Rockets and Blazers have torn things down and relatively quickly built things back up to win more than 50 games in the span that most eastern conference teams haven't even sniffed 50 wins. It's more than just luck.

I think I already outlined that with lots of examples.

And again, I never said a great GM can't help vs a terrible one.

But Lebron and Wade organized the MIA trio with Bosh. Pat is great, but that was those two.

In todays CBA and with the way people protect #1 with trade protection at the top and not being able to trade back to back #1s in a trade, the NBA has protect owners against themselves to a great degree. Both with trading pick rules, rookie salaries and the Cap.

Now you might ask why did the NBA do all that. Probably because they wanted more parity and owners are notoriously impatient. Rookie cap ? Because the player had to much power before proving the could make it in the NBA and the market was crushing franchises. J Howard was an example for the Wizards. But not being able to trade back to back firsts... that all about protecting the owners from themselves.

That's why PHI is doing what they are doing. That's the extreme. Most owners don't have the balls or pockets or whatever to do what they are doing. They know if they can land that generational player, that sets you up for a long time to go after multiple titles. Now once you get it, you want to be able to not grow to quick and not to slow or that player will want to leave. But Philly hasn't been lucky so far. All that tanking and still no #1 pick. Just a #6 (Nerlens Noel) in a draft light at the top, #3 Joel Embiid ( injured ) and #3 in a good draft. Maybe the combination of all three can yield them something.

Now Embiid might end up being that stud player, but he can't get on the court as of right now. See Greg Oden. Bad luck unless that bad luck turns into good luck if they get another lottery pick in the right draft.

Best case is pretty much what happen with SAS. Have a well run franchise. Have all that rep and winning knowledge. Know when to hold them and when to fold them. Get lucky one year and draft D Robinson. Win lots. Make more sound moves then bad. Then one year have too many injuries. Some say they eventually tanked that year knowing TD was in the draft, some say they didn't. But they were down just that one year and got the #1 and TD. Then right back up again.

Those great Laker teams. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar forced himself there. Then research how they landed the #1s that got them Magic and James Worthy.

I already mentioned CP3. Not sure if you think he is that level player or not but he was supposed to be with the Lakers. LAC also lucked into the #1 when Blake was there. Next year with Blake hurt in year one.. they got the # 8 and drafted Al-Farouq Aminu.
when they could have gotten .... 9 was Gordon Hayward. #10 was Paul George.

Now the 2007 draft was loaded. Two of those players at the top. Oden when #1. KD #2 so the SuperSonics got to pick on of those players. Who now hopefully walks onto our team. Will will be lucky he was born here.

NO.. A Davis.. Ka Ching. Now they better get him a team and hope he doesn't want to leave for a better city. Best things for NO would be to get the right vets around him no and get him into the playoffs.

We got our #1 in Wall. #3 Beal and now #3 Otto. That's a pretty good grab right ? Putting vets around them was the right move. And now we might get lucky and get KD. Not all luck mid you. They planned for this if he comes. They have the cap. They got Paul and made two 2nd round appearances. They have shown KD they are a viable landing spot by doing some good things. They have prepared to have KD land here if it happens.

So you can prepare yourself and help luck along sometimes. Wizards have done that. But the need to luck to happen.

But LeBron to CLE ? Come on now. Like I said. They buried his jersey and the owner publicly went at him. That is pretty much all luck. Plus the #1s they landed. Three of them not including LeBron.

[hands11]

hands doesn't want to blame Grunfail for the disasters of 2009 and 2011 and basically saying that you need luck not a great GM to build a winner.

Very dangerous logic.

Any other franchise and this guy would have been fired in 2010 when we got the #1 overall pick and new owner with a clean cap to start a rebuild.

FAH.. you don't get to spin what I'm saying into what you want to make up. I said what my point was. Already laid it out. And it isn't what you wrote. Not even close.

If anything, its about setting yourself up for luck and time frames (Ted), owners and just how good a position this team is in to land that last big piece of luck. KD.

This team did what they needed to do and Ted set that tone. We burned it down. Tanked. Got lucky and landed Wall. Then again and landed Beal. Then again and got Otto. Not sure if you call this luck but they were lucky enough there was a terrible GM out there that would trade for GIl. LOL.. Getting Gil out of here was a huge part of the rebuild.

You want to break down every move any GM has made. Go for it. I'm sure you will find screw ups with all of them.
Now go find the multi contenders. Go see how that came about. That's what I'm looking at here.

This has nothing to do with EG what I am writing. It has to do with how teams build multi year title winners. It applies to all teams.

[hands11]

You have to wonder if Mark Jackson would still be around if he didn't bully his assistants and wasn't a preacher on the side. Although to be fair to Jackson, having a healthy Bogut and guys like Livingston and Barbosa as opposed to Jordan Crawford would have gone a long way to making the Warriors a contender.

Isn't he out for the same reason Thibs is out ?

He was telling ownership and the front office to buzz off.

Here.. I found this.

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2014/12/6/7344165/mark-jackson-warriors-reasons-joe-lacob

[Dat2U]

Post#256 » June 29th, 2009, 11:37 pm

Wow. I'm trying to figure when Mike Miller morphed into the franchise caliber player. Because reading all the posts about how great he is, its a wonder he didn't lead Minnesota into the playoffs by himself. It's like the board has a collective hard on for the guy.

I guarantee had the board done a poll about choosing b/w Mike Miller & Shane Battier before last week, Battier would have won hands down. Only now, after the trade is made and we have Miller do we all the sudden question Battier's age, stats or ability to fit in our lineup.

Irregardless I think the guy we'll come to end up regretting we passed on was Steph Curry. It's a gut feeling but if we were going to sell out on having a completely offensive minded team then Curry was the guy to select. Contrary to popular belief Curry was the type of rookie that could come in and contribute immediately in a team's rotation. And the sad thing about the trade was that if EG waited until draft day, he possibly could have had Curry AND Miller or at least Curry and the #18th pick. You can make an argument about Miller being a good fit next to our big three but I'd take Curry over Foye 10 times out of 10 and find it hard to believe that someone can make a legitimate argument the Foye is an ideal fit or anything more than mediocre guard.

[Dat2U]

#258 » July 1st, 2009, 1:34 am

Irregardless I think the guy we'll come to end up regretting we passed on was Steph Curry. It's a gut feeling but if we were going to sell out on having a completely offensive minded team then Curry was the guy to select. Contrary to popular belief Curry was the type of rookie that could come in and contribute immediately in a team's rotation. And the sad thing about the trade was that if EG waited until draft day, he possibly could have had Curry AND Miller or at least Curry and the #18th pick. You can make an argument about Miller being a good fit next to our big three but I'd take Curry over Foye 10 times out of 10 and find it hard to believe that someone can make a legitimate argument the Foye is an ideal fit or anything more than mediocre guard.

dat, if u were to compare the 2, what categories would u say that curry excels over foye?

Good question. I'll try to break it down.

Athleticism - I give the edge to Foye, although knee problems have limited his explosiveness somewhat. Foye should be a bit better in terms of lateral movement

Shooting - I give the edge to Curry. Curry is an elite shooter IMO, Has a lightning quick release and has slick enough handles to create a shot off the dribble.

Slashing - I give the edge to Foye but again his knee issues appear to have made him more hesititant about driving. He depended heavily on his jumper this past season.

Ability to play PG - Again I give it to Curry although I know he hasn't done it yet on an NBA level. Foye has proven to be thoroughly ineffective on the NBA level as a starting PG. I think Curry displayed great court vision and has an innate feel for the game. In time I think Curry will be deadly on the pick & roll.

Defense - Because Curry is a rookie, I'll give the slight edge to Foye although he's nothing special. Foye has the tools to be a solid defender against PGs but didn't display a ton of effort in that area. Curry will get abused some as a rookie but he's smart & heady and will eventually be a fine team defender if not a one-on-one defender.

Basketball IQ - Gotta give it to Curry, along with his shooting skill it's his best attribute. It's clear being from a basketball pedigree has made him wise beyond his year and its why I think he can come in and help a team relatively quickly.

Bottom line, Foye might be a marginally better player this season but in time I think Curry possesses the ability to become a starting PG and excel at it. Plus his versatility to play either off or on the ball would have made him lethal beside Gil.

Another huge aspect to consider is Curry will be on a relatively cheap rookie contract next year. Foye will be looking for a payday following this coming season. That's one reason why I find the notion that the Wizards saved money in acquiring Foye & Miller to be misleading. In the extreme shorterm? Yes. But next year the Wizards will have to pay the piper or risk losing one or more of their free agents.

[Dat2U]

Man I was KILLING it in this thread...

August 26th, 2009, 4:35 pm

^
At one point it seemed his [Rubio] going at 2 was a given in many circles. Like with DeJuan Blair, something must have happened (or been discovered or suspected) to make some teams hesitate.

What happened is that GMs realized that Rubio was not the second best player in the draft. Plus Thabett is a better fit for Memphis, Harden is more NBA ready than Rubio, and Evans, imo, could turn out to be the best player in this year's draft.

Thabeet is a better fit in Memphis? Where'd you get that from? He's a walking bust and I got the feeling sitting behind the Memphis contingent of higher ups during the Vegas summer league that there's already hand-wringing over his selection. Thabeet AT BEST is years away from contributing to a winning NBA team. There's 10 or 12 guys that would have been better fits IMO.