Haywood v. Tyson Chandler

[mohammed10]

Haywood for Chandler? Make it happen!!! /New Orleans perspective.

I do, however, think people are underrating Chandler on this board in many aspects. Go back and watch a game or two of the Spurs/Hornets playoff series when he was healthy, his man defence against Duncan is what took that series to 7 games.

But I still think it's feasible to get both Haywood and Chandler on the same squad

[JWizmentality]

Haywood for Chandler? Make it happen!!! /New Orleans perspective.

I do, however, think people are underrating Chandler on this board in many aspects. Go back and watch a game or two of the Spurs/Hornets playoff series when he was healthy, his man defence against Duncan is what took that series to 7 games.

But I still think it's feasible to get both Haywood and Chandler on the same squad

Stop instigating, you got me in enough trouble.

[mohammed10]

Stop instigating, you got me in enough trouble.

Hey JWiz - great minds think alike. I think they would give us an athletic, DEFENSIVE front court to go with our high octane backcourt.

[TheBlackCzar]

I have a unique perspective of Brendan, and it boils down to the fact he's a soft dude....
He's a real big wuss.... He may act like he's no longer softer than some melted butter, but that boy is Charmin soft..........

Brendan will never be a beast, because it's not who he is..... He has not disappointed me this far.... He's not trash as a player, but he doesn't have the athletic ability nor does he have the fire inside to be great.... He'll be good, but he could never be a top center (meaning top 5), unless it was no centers to compare him to.... If he wasn't 7' he'd be a DLeague or bench role player... He's still a role player at 7'......

We lost more games last year because of Gil being out than Brendan... He is not some Dikembe type of defensive animal in the low post... Yes he's good to serviceable, but don't overstate why Brendan is a good position defender.... He has no hops and is slow laterally so he has to play good position because that's all he can do.....

[NbdyBeatsTheWiz]

I have a unique perspective of Brendan, and it boils down to the fact he's a soft dude....
He's a real big wuss.... He may act like he's no longer softer than some melted butter, but that boy is Charmin soft..........

Brendan will never be a beast, because it's not who he is..... He has not disappointed me this far.... He's not trash as a player, but he doesn't have the athletic ability nor does he have the fire inside to be great.... He'll be good, but he could never be a top center (meaning top 5), unless it was no centers to compare him to.... If he wasn't 7' he'd be a DLeague or bench role player... He's still a role player at 7'......

We lost more games last year because of Gil being out than Brendan... He is not some Dikembe type of defensive animal in the low post... Yes he's good to serviceable, but don't overstate why Brendan is a good position defender.... He has no hops and is slow laterally so he has to play good position because that's all he can do.....

Sans Gil = 7th seed
Sans Gil AND Haywood = 17 wins

It was more than just Gil being out. Granted we also went through a coaching change, etc, but you can't undervalue Haywood saying we won 17 simply because Gil was out when the same situation with Haywood healthy resulted 40+ wins and the 7th seed the year before.

If you've got a top 5 center to trade for him cool, if not I'm more than happy with Haywood. And his ability to "play good position" or whatever you'd like to call it worked wonders against Howard, the guy who may now or soon be the best player in our division.

And did you just mention lateral acceleration? Is this Wiz'nasty under a new screenname?

[nate33]

I have a unique perspective of Brendan, and it boils down to the fact he's a soft dude....
He's a real big wuss.... He may act like he's no longer softer than some melted butter, but that boy is Charmin soft..........

Brendan will never be a beast, because it's not who he is..... He has not disappointed me this far.... He's not trash as a player, but he doesn't have the athletic ability nor does he have the fire inside to be great.... He'll be good, but he could never be a top center (meaning top 5), unless it was no centers to compare him to.... If he wasn't 7' he'd be a DLeague or bench role player... He's still a role player at 7'......

We lost more games last year because of Gil being out than Brendan... He is not some Dikembe type of defensive animal in the low post... Yes he's good to serviceable, but don't overstate why Brendan is a good position defender.... He has no hops and is slow laterally so he has to play good position because that's all he can do.....

Sans Gil = 7th seed
Sans Gil AND Haywood = 17 wins

I'll also point out that Butler + Jamison missed just 17 games this year and Blatche and Young were much better players than the year before, yet we won just 17 games.

In the prior season, Butler + Jamison missed 27 combined games, Blatche was less effective and Young was terrible, yet we managed to win 43 games thanks to the presence of Haywood.

And there's also the 6-year track record of Haywood having a substantially positive on/off differential.

I'll cede that, prior to 2007/08, Haywood had periods of lethargy when he didn't seem to be playing his hardest. Some of that may be due to coaching, but certainly Haywood can share in the blame. That said, Haywood had a damn fine season in 2007/08 with almoust no bouts of lethargy. Basically, he did everything asked of him and then some. Yeah, he's not a smooth offensive player, but we knew that all along. He did what he could on offense (offensive rebounds, set picks, improve his free throw percentage and his hands) while taking care of business on defense. It's hard to find anything to complain about with his 2007/08 performance.

If we get the same Brendan Haywood in 2009/10 that we had in 2007/08, only we get it for 32-34 minutes a game, then Haywood will be a legit all star candidate. (He probably won't get it due to reputation alone, but he'll deserve it.)

[TheSecretWeapon]

I have a unique perspective of Brendan, and it boils down to the fact he's a soft dude....
He's a real big wuss.... He may act like he's no longer softer than some melted butter, but that boy is Charmin soft..........

Brendan will never be a beast, because it's not who he is..... He has not disappointed me this far.... He's not trash as a player, but he doesn't have the athletic ability nor does he have the fire inside to be great.... He'll be good, but he could never be a top center (meaning top 5), unless it was no centers to compare him to.... If he wasn't 7' he'd be a DLeague or bench role player... He's still a role player at 7'......

We lost more games last year because of Gil being out than Brendan... He is not some Dikembe type of defensive animal in the low post... Yes he's good to serviceable, but don't overstate why Brendan is a good position defender.... He has no hops and is slow laterally so he has to play good position because that's all he can do.....

There's nothing unique about this perspective -- it's probably the most popular narrative around about Brendan. What many 'round these parts are noting is that despite these frequent complaints about him being soft and slow and awkward and uncoordinated, he has a positive effect on the Wizards -- especially on the defensive end.

Here's an article that quantifies his effect on the team's defense.

Haywood, as would be expected for a center tasked with protecting the basket, is responsible for defending more shots per minute than any other player on the roster. Opponents have an effective field goal percentage of just 32.8% on shots he is responsible for defending. The team average over the same 44 games is 50%. Haywood also leads the team in non-steal forced turnovers. (Examples of non-steal forced turnovers include pressuring an offensive player into traveling, a double dribble, a bad pass, or drawing a charge.)

and...

This data can be used effectively to compare players with similar defensive roles. For example, Haywood and Etan Thomas both play at center, rarely are on the court together, and have nearly identical responsibilities when they do play. They both block the same number of shots per minute, but the team gives up fewer points when Haywood is on the court. (See the on/off data presented at www.82games.com for more details on this.

Despite playing the same roles in the same defensive system, Haywood is responsible for defending nearly four additional shots per 48 minutes (20.7 for Haywood to 16.9 for Thomas), and does a much better job of forcing misses (.328 DeFG for Haywood vs. .494 for Thomas). Haywood also forces twice as many turnovers per 48 minutes as Thomas.

The reason for this becomes clear when delving deeper into the defensive data than what I’ve summarized in the box score. Putting a hand in a shooter’s face dramatically lowers shooting accuracy. The data shows that Haywood is far less likely to permit an open shot than is Thomas. In other words, Haywood almost always gets his hand in a shooter’s face, but Thomas sometimes does and sometimes does not.

[TheBlackCzar]

More or less my take on Brendan is from a personal standpoint, not strictly basketball related....
I don't think the dude is garbage by any stretch, and he is the best center we've had in my lifetime, but that's not saying much considering how badly we sucked most of my life....

I'm glad we've been a playoff mob, but I'm down in Houston now, and I've sorta adopted these folks perspective on their team... Going to the playoffs is not enough.... Championship competitive or bust is my feelings.... Right now we CAN'T beat the top 4 teams in a 7 game series...

Brendan plays well versus Dwight because Dwight has no post game... But he did show flashes of moves in the finals.... Point is, even without hardly any post moves, Howard is still a monster... I think he can be as good if not better than Shaq once he gets some moves.... And at that point Brendan's impact on him will be minimalized.....


I am not any other poster I've been a reader of this site since I realized scout sucked for covering anything outside of college football...... I am Salah The Black Czar.... U will know who I am soon enough..... But I'm a definite Wizards fan, even tho I hate this stupid name, and ugly uniforms....

My thing is how does Brendan get so much love but Gil so much ire....
Gil is the best thing to happen to DC basketball in my lifetime.... Better than CWebb, better than Juwan, Sheed, Jordan, even Bernard King.... He's the best player we've had in the last 20 or so yrs.... Yes he was hurt, but I got much love for him because when my neighborhood was a warzone, he came out trying to get folks to simmer down... Hell Al Sharpton, Barack Obama, Jesse Jackson, and all these gogo bands came out, but Gil also came out.... I got much love for him beyond basketball, and if we had traded him for anybody but Kobe a couple of yrs ago, I'd have totally dismissed the Wizards as my team.....

But you are right it was a combination of factors why we sucked last season........ But my take on Brendan was more from a personal standpoint than purely basketball as is my feelings towards Gil...

I don't wanna lose either, but I would like to drop Jamison for a pure PF..... Enough of this soft BS....

[ZonkertheBrainless]

Wait, didn't we have neither Brendan nor Etan for all of last year? You could argue that it was the lack of a center, period, that did us in last year.

Oh wait, it was because we didn't have Etan the previous year either. Ok, never mind.

[DCZards]

In the prior season, Butler + Jamison missed 27 combined games, Blatche was less effective and Young was terrible, yet we managed to win 43 games thanks to the presence of Haywood.

Yeah, the Zards won 43 games....thanks the presence of Haywood and EJ. Oh, that's right, EJ's not supposed to get any credit. My bad.

[verbal8]

My thing is how does Brendan get so much love but Gil so much ire....

I think the issue is $$$ and defense. Arenas has been paid a ton of money the last two seasons and not produced. Haywood only missed last season and is on a reasonable contract.

Haywood is a solid defender. Arenas has the ability to be a good defender, but seems to neglect that area of the game.

[NbdyBeatsTheWiz]

My thing is how does Brendan get so much love but Gil so much ire....

I think the issue is $$$ and defense. Arenas has been paid a ton of money the last two seasons and not produced. Haywood only missed last season and is on a reasonable contract.

Haywood is a solid defender. Arenas has the ability to be a good defender, but seems to neglect that area of the game.

Agreed.

And Czar, it's not that I hate Gil. I'll be the first to admit I've developed a man-crush on the guy (no homo), but the fact remains he's now paid like one of the top players in the NBA, and I'm not sure he's put together the complete package to merit it yet. Haywood was drafted late in the 1st round, and is still affordable with his contract. I think one of the biggest deals with 'Wood is he's one of the only guys on the team to fully commit to defense, and on a team like the Wiz that will quickly endear you to fans who realize thats exactly what the Wiz need.

[Devilzsidewalk]

I am Salah The Black Czar.... U will know who I am soon enough

has anybody got dibs on this for a sig yet

[fishercob]

My thing is how does Brendan get so much love but Gil so much ire....

I think the issue is $$$ and defense. Arenas has been paid a ton of money the last two seasons and not produced. Haywood only missed last season and is on a reasonable contract.

Haywood is a solid defender. Arenas has the ability to be a good defender, but seems to neglect that area of the game.

Agreed.

And Czar, it's not that I hate Gil. I'll be the first to admit I've developed a man-crush on the guy (no homo), but the fact remains he's now paid like one of the top players in the NBA, and I'm not sure he's put together the complete package to merit it yet. Haywood was drafted late in the 1st round, and is still affordable with his contract. I think one of the biggest deals with 'Wood is he's one of the only guys on the team to fully commit to defense, and on a team like the Wiz that will quickly endear you to fans who realize thats exactly what the Wiz need.

http://hoopshype.com/salaries.htm

Just FYI, according to HoopsHype he's the 17th highest paid player in the league -- behind such luminaries as TMac (1), J. O'neal (3) and Mike Redd (10). If he's healthy, I think his production justifies his ranking. That's obviously the big if.

[nate33]

In the prior season, Butler + Jamison missed 27 combined games, Blatche was less effective and Young was terrible, yet we managed to win 43 games thanks to the presence of Haywood.

Yeah, the Zards won 43 games....thanks the presence of Haywood and EJ. Oh, that's right, EJ's not supposed to get any credit. My bad.

Oh please. The team was 1-10 at the start of the season under EJ despite a cakewalk schedule.

[NbdyBeatsTheWiz]

Just FYI, according to HoopsHype he's the 17th highest paid player in the league -- behind such luminaries as TMac (1), J. O'neal (3) and Mike Redd (10). If he's healthy, I think his production justifies his ranking. That's obviously the big if.

That is a freaking eye-opener, I wasn't aware Tracy McGrady and Jermaine O'Neal rounded out two of the top three salaries in the league. Makes me hate Stevenson's contract a little less. Maybe.

[doclinkin]

..... Enough of this soft BS....

Thing on Haywood though, the 'soft' insult applied maybe a few years ago -- but not for a while now. He's become one of the more physical cats on the squad. In the past he was vulnerable to fouls, and in order to steal playtime he'd step out the way of the foul, or being slower: not react. That hasn't been true for a bit. Better offseason work has made him leaner and quicker. And when beat he now seems happy to lay the hammer down. This is the one guy on the team who's not scared to give LeBron a hard forearm then mock him afterwards for whining about it. In our back to back wins on the Celts, you can credit the win on Brendan's muscle vs Boston's interior attackers.

Love Gil, he deserves all the accolades, great guy, hard worker, and his injuries are only the fault that he sometimes works harder than is sensible (even the initial injury, trying to rebound down low amid the bigs). Fans who complain about the contract are mostly dying to see him back at 100% --justifying it. Some doubt he will, but few doubt he _can_. (If healthy).

But it ain't a zero-sum game, Big Wood deserves whatever praise he gets, which most places other than here is damn little. No point pitting the two against each other. We need both to win. Yeah great we also need a second frontcourt banger, but it's tough to find one who can still give us anything like the steady production that Jamison gives. Steady 20/10 at 80+ games per year. Our defense suffers a bit, but Tawn has been consistently the most important player on the team in terms of on/off numbers. Year before last he had the biggest on/off difference in the league, put simple: he's been more important to this team's wins than any other player was for any other team. (And in case the argument is that his back-ups were jsut terrible, Darius Songaila had our second best on/off +/- ratio that year),

Get me something that lets us replace him, then we can worry about how 'soft' he may/may not be. Dude does (literal) the best he can every single night -- even undersized or overmatched at his position-- if that's not good enough, okay, but I want to see every other player on the squad able to say the same thing.

On defense, I suspect Tawn will look a little better in the team scheme. Doesn't ask it's players to cover as much ground. So his crap lateral reaction speed will make less of a difference.

[TheBlackCzar]

Doclinkin....

I meant soft team wide, not just Brendan.... We aren't a physical team and in the playoff's it kills us...
Trying to be hard in the PO when you've played soft all RS doesn't work.....

We need to really focus on defense........... We can't outscore the best teams regularly, and winning 43 games is or 40+ games is no longer anything to brag about, get excited over....

We need to get things in gear because right now, people can claim how scary our team is, and how much talent we have, but with no size we are not beating Boston, Cleveland, Orlando GUARANTEED.... All this BS about Abe wanting a title, he better realize this team CAN'T do it....... We don't have the talent to beat the Easts best, much less the top dogs out West.......

We need to do something because adding bit pieces to a roster that wasn't the most talented to begin with is not going to do anything but get us eliminated in round 1 or 2 in the playoffs... All this hoping for a lucky streak is stupid.... U don't win 7 game series in the PO by being lucky.... As bad as it was under Unseld, it's becoming annoying under Grunfeld, because we're just making slight improvements while the rest of the league is improving dramatically.....

[DaRealHibachi]

Doclinkin....

I meant soft team wide, not just Brendan.... We aren't a physical team and in the playoff's it kills us...
Trying to be hard in the PO when you've played soft all RS doesn't work.....

We need to really focus on defense........... We can't outscore the best teams regularly, and winning 43 games is or 40+ games is no longer anything to brag about, get excited over....

We need to get things in gear because right now, people can claim how scary our team is, and how much talent we have, but with no size we are not beating Boston, Cleveland, Orlando GUARANTEED.... All this BS about Abe wanting a title, he better realize this team CAN'T do it....... We don't have the talent to beat the Easts best, much less the top dogs out West.......

We need to do something because adding bit pieces to a roster that wasn't the most talented to begin with is not going to do anything but get us eliminated in round 1 or 2 in the playoffs... All this hoping for a lucky streak is stupid.... U don't win 7 game series in the PO by being lucky.... As bad as it was under Unseld, it's becoming annoying under Grunfeld, because we're just making slight improvements while the rest of the league is improving dramatically.....

Please tell me what teams have dramatically improved this offseason... Cause the only improvement I saw was the Celtics team...