Nick Young

Kanyewest · Post #61 » by **Kanyewest** » Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:24 am

doclinkin wrote:
And that's the real concern with this team, that after Gil we have no real option for the back-up Point. Randy Foye is showing the scorers tunnel vision, he'd be a nice fit with the system we used to run here, but not so much in an engine that relies on a single ballhandler to regulate the team and make smart decisions.

A young Chauncey Billups did well playing off the ball under Flip Saunders. Rodney Stuckey has his moments in his rookie season under Flip Saunders. Bottomline it will take time for Flip to develop Foye. But after all Flip was supposedly didn't need much convincing to pull the trigger in the trade: which probably means that Saunders has Foye in his long term plans.

jimij · Post #62 » by **jimij** » Tue Oct 20, 2009 10:42 am

We do have a backup pass first PG on the roster. Unfortunately, he's hurt. Crittendon is a legit backup PG IMO and hopefully will be back on the court soon. If Foye proves to be a liability at PG we can always move him to SG full-time and live with Javaris for 10-12 minutes a night.

Wiz99 · Post #63 » by **Wiz99** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:23 am

How y'all like Nick Young tonight?

In the last 7 seconds of the game.

He manages a turnover on offense to make sure we don't get a shot at the last possession.

Then fouls Willie Green to send him to the line to win the game with 1 second left.

WTF?!?!?!?

I hate nick young, the guy isn't a nba player.

Post #64 » by **LyricalRico** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:28 am

Wiz99 wrote:I hate nick young, the guy isn't a nba player.

Post #65 » by **miller31time** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:35 am

Wiz99 wrote:How y'all like Nick Young tonight?

In the last 7 seconds of the game.

He manages a turnover on offense to make sure we don't get a shot at the last possession.

Then fouls Willie Green to send him to the line to win the game with 1 second left.

WTF?!?!?!?

I hate nick young, the guy isn't a nba player.

I actually really liked the way Nick played tonight. He seemed very under-control and didn't force anything on offense. He just listened to Flip's gameplan for him (come off screens and take a good shot - if one is not there, pass it back out).

Yeah, he bit for a bad pump-fake but that will happen. Overall, he had a nice game. I don't think we would have even been in a position to win the game had it not been for Nick knocking down some tough shots tonight.

TheBigThree · Post #66 » by **TheBigThree** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:45 am

Wiz99 wrote:I hate nick young, the guy isn't a nba player.

Eh, agreed somewhat. All our young guys suffered under EJ in that they weren't groomed properly. Give them some time with Flip (i.e the end of the season) and we'll know what type of players they are.

Post #67 » by **nate33** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:02 am

Wiz99 wrote:How y'all like Nick Young tonight?

In the last 7 seconds of the game.

He manages a turnover on offense to make sure we don't get a shot at the last possession.

Then fouls Willie Green to send him to the line to win the game with 1 second left.

WTF?!?!?!?

I hate nick young, the guy isn't a nba player.

McGee made that turnover, not Young.

doclinkin · Post #68 » by **doclinkin** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:04 am

miller31time wrote:I actually really liked the way Nick played tonight. He seemed very under-control and didn't force anything on offense. He just listened to Flip's gameplan for him (come off screens and take a good shot - if one is not there, pass it back out).

Yeah, he bit for a bad pump-fake but that will happen. Overall, he had a nice game. I don't think we would have even been in a position to win the game had it not been for Nick knocking down some tough shots tonight.

In part I agree. At least, until he got tired. He gave up on using screens late in the game, and hasn't figured out how to fight through the traffic when the opponents hedge the screen and bump him so he sorta gives up and hangs around doing nothing if they stop the initial cut. Also there were a few times when he would have had more space to take a shot if he'd committed to running the screens hard, he needs to improve his conditioning and attackattackattack every move he makes on court. In part he's so used to playground ball that he uses his opponent's defense as hard sights, to give him perspective to take a shot. He'll get loose off a screen then wait for them to catch up so he can juke 'em and hit the sidestep fadey. Still hits that shot though.

But playing in a back up role he should have the energy to run hard every minute, he won't be left out there on a 4th quarter island. If he's running with energy (and playing with savvy ballers like Miller, Obie, Caron, Gil) his teammates will find him and feed him every time he's open, it's up to him entirely to do the work to get open in the first place.

I agree he's learning. Defensively though, man I just want him to build a little more strength, he gets bumped and jangled, if he was less intimidated by opponents strength I get the feeling he might play them a little tighter. He'll never be a Bruce Bowen, but he can be adequate with even a halfassed effort.

I like the kid, he's just not all there yet. S'alright, he's got grown-ups all around him to help l'arn him a good one. And he's got a perfect fit system to make him look good once he's doing the thing.

Kanyewest · Post #69 » by **Kanyewest** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 5:43 am

nate33 wrote:
Wiz99 wrote:How y'all like Nick Young tonight?

In the last 7 seconds of the game.

He manages a turnover on offense to make sure we don't get a shot at the last possession.

Then fouls Willie Green to send him to the line to win the game with 1 second left.

WTF?!?!?!?

I hate nick young, the guy isn't a nba player.

McGee made that turnover, not Young.

Yup, McGee was the one who lost the ball on the fastbreak layup. Young played fine well enough in the 4th quarter; he shot 4 of 7 from the field and also had a steal.

barelyawake · Post #70 » by **barelyawake** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 12:04 pm

Nick was getting abused when he was on d last night. He alone sparked several of Philly's runs. That said, he did hit a couple clutch shots. I still think he's soft and hate the way he looks after his shot falls. He preens with this "I'm too cool for school" look. IMO it demonstrates an underlying weakness displayed by the rest of his game and demeanor. To sum it up, he's a pretty boy. I'm sure he wears his Izods with a popped collar. All that said, he still has Richard Hamilton potential. But, I'd be looking to trade him and Blatche this year (plus others obviously) for an Okafor.

GhostsOfGil · Post #71 » by **GhostsOfGil** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 3:14 pm

couple thoughts on the game. ny hit some critical shots down the stretch. i think ppl are being a little tough on him. dmac is still our best perimeter defender by FAR. i wish there were minutes for this guy. foye may be the most over rated player on this board imo. he has stretches where he just goes off but when hes not being aggressive or hitting his shots, the offense turns into isolations and face up jumpers. the 1st quarter deficit before the subs came in was a perfect example and it happened again in the 3rd before foye caught fire.

Hoopalotta · Post #72 » by **Hoopalotta** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 3:37 pm

zaRdsAndZeRos wrote:foye may be the most over rated player on this board imo. he has stretches where he just goes off but when hes not being aggressive or hitting his shots, the offense turns into isolations and face up jumpers. the 1st quarter deficit before the subs came in was a perfect example and it happened again in the 3rd before foye caught fire.

I think that has something to do with our calling him a point guard when he's not.

He either scored or assisted on 12 points in a 3 minute stretch during the third. He might be the best 'back on their heels-burst scorer' on the team after Arenas.

If we can integrate that into the greater mechanism - combined with Say Gil, Butler and Jamison on the court - we have the potential to unleash 'Phoenix-Sunsian-Runs' and put teams away in quick bursts of devastation.

Anyway, though I like Miller starting alright, I'd like to see how he operate with the big four.

GhostsOfGil · Post #73 » by **GhostsOfGil** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 5:24 pm

Hoopalotta wrote:
zaRdsAndZeRos wrote:foye may be the most over rated player on this board imo. he has stretches where he just goes off but when hes not being aggressive or hitting his shots, the offense turns into isolations and face up jumpers. the 1st quarter deficit before the subs came in was a perfect example and it happened again in the 3rd before foye caught fire.

I think that has something to do with our calling him a point guard when he's not.

He either scored or assisted on 12 points in a 3 minute stretch during the third. He might be the best 'back on their heels-burst scorer' on the team after Arenas.

If we can integrate that into the greater mechanism - combined with Say Gil, Butler and Jamison on the court - we have the potential to unleash 'Phoenix-Sunsian-Runs' and put teams away in quick bursts of devastation.

Anyway, though I like Miller starting alright, I'd like to see how he operate with the big four.

agreed 100%

WizarDynasty · Post #74 » by **WizarDynasty** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 5:58 pm

uh foye is 6'2 and will get torched gurarding by any starting sg 6'6 and taller which means who ever is running pg has to guard sgs. gil is good on some matchups but gilbert suffers the same problems and is three times as good as foye on offense.

Hoopalotta · Post #75 » by **Hoopalotta** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 6:19 pm

I can see the argument against Foye starting based on his height - obviously some matchups would be a big problem, such as Last night with Philly starting Iggy at guard. I admit, even with a Zone, that's tough.

But all told, Cleveland was the best defensive team last year, and they were starting West at the two guard, who's a quarter of an inch taller than Foye. Foye was measured pre-draft at 6'2.5" barefoot, which is an NBA 6'3" and he's a bit stocky to boot.

So it can at least be done.

Kanyewest · Post #76 » by **Kanyewest** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 6:23 pm

I would much rather have Foye guarding opposing shooting guards than Nick Young even if Young is listed at 6'6. 6'2-6'3 guys can become effective defenders at guarding shooting guards: see Derek Fisher and Eric Snow.

Kanyewest · Post #77 » by **Kanyewest** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 7:16 pm

zaRdsAndZeRos wrote:couple thoughts on the game. ny hit some critical shots down the stretch. i think ppl are being a little tough on him. dmac is still our best perimeter defender by FAR. i wish there were minutes for this guy. foye may be the most over rated player on this board imo. he has stretches where he just goes off but when hes not being aggressive or hitting his shots, the offense turns into isolations and face up jumpers. the 1st quarter deficit before the subs came in was a perfect example and it happened again in the 3rd before foye caught fire.

While the Wizards offense took a while to get going, I wouldn't put it all on Foye. Aside from Haywood, the entire starting 5 struggled offensively during that period. Even Butler failed to convert on a few easy layup opportunities.

Yes Foye only caught fire in the 3rd quarter, but he only played significant minutes in the 1st and 3rd quarter. If you add up his "bad" numbers in the 1st half and his numbers in the 2nd half, it computes to a very solid game: 17 points, 4 assists in 27 minutes while shooting 50% from the field and the 3 point line. And it's not like Foye failed to play well in the 4th quarter, since he was taken out of the game since it's preseason.

Wiz99 · Post #78 » by **Wiz99** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 5:05 am

nate33 wrote:
Wiz99 wrote:How y'all like Nick Young tonight?

In the last 7 seconds of the game.

He manages a turnover on offense to make sure we don't get a shot at the last possession.

Then fouls Willie Green to send him to the line to win the game with 1 second left.

WTF?!?!?!?

I hate nick young, the guy isn't a nba player.

McGee made that turnover, not Young.

No, McGee missed the layup and then Nick had it bounce right into his hands and out of bounds (right before his cupcake D gave Willie Green a chance to win the game at the freethrow line). His play is just deficient in too many areas.

If Young's going to be a totally one dimensional player -- a la Kyle Korver, Dennis Rodman -- then he needs to excel at that one thing and play mistake free ball in every other aspect.

He's just not a NBA player.

hands11 · Post #79 » by **hands11** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 5:32 am

Biggest NY improvement, the look on his face. He was way less smiley boy then he used to be. He is more serious. You can tell. Give him a little more time growing in that area. The kid is learning a little more mental toughness. He was very fragile mentally. Same issue Blatche was having. That's why they were up and do so much.

I see progress in both.

As for start SG... I initially thought is would be MM. But then thought MM would be nice off the bench with the second unit. Kind of like I have wanted AJ there in the past. Now I don't know. It could even end up being DS again with Foye and MM running against second units. That wouldn't suck.

One thing you can count on, I think Flip will have different people there over the course of the season. What we are really guessing is only who will start there to start the season.

Post #80 » by **LyricalRico** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 1:54 pm

Wiz99 wrote:If Young's going to be a totally one dimensional player -- a la Kyle Korver, Dennis Rodman -- then he needs to excel at that one thing and play mistake free ball in every other aspect.

He's just not a NBA player.

Yep. Heck, even a guy like Jamison who stinks on defense is very good at other aspects of his game (scoring, rebounding). Young isn't very good in crirical areas and in the others he's inconsistent at best. I'd feel better if he had at least one thing he could hang his hat on. But he doesn't.

The problem is that if he doesn't "get it" this season, he's going to have minimal value next summer IMO. He'll only have one year left on his deal but it's not a big enough expiring to help a team trying to cut cap. He'll probably still be considered a prospect but he won't have shown much in 3 years. Any team trading for him would essentially be getting a low salary one year rental and hoping that they can do something that 3 other head coaches couldn't. How much can we expect to get in return for something like that next summer? A second?

Keeping Young this year gives us only two real options IMO: he blows up this year, or he becomes worthless. It's "all or nothing" with him and I haven't seen anything to make me think Young is even pointed in the direction of "all". That's why I wanted to use him this summer to rid us of DeBrick's contract. If Grunfeld whiffed on anything this summer, it was that IMO.